Just Trains Making Wcml Over Shap And Br Class 87

I think the speed limit regards to the coaching stock in this case. BR stated that Loco hauled mk3s were cleared for 110 and the mk2s were cleared for 100 I think is what JT said.

 

MK1s and MK2s were cleared for 100mph, MK3s were 125mph as per the HST sets they were designed for but having higher clearance loco hauled stock was part of the reason the MK3a was then developed, and MK1 BGs refitted to become NHAs.

It is true however that most of the 86s were only cleared to 100mph, as was the case with the 86/2 in the loco pack. The fleet was originally more varied but by the mid 80s BR had standardised the whole fleet of passenger 86s to 100mph between the /2 and /4 subclasses. Three of them were refitted to become the 87 prototypes and were increased to 110mph, but they were then reclassified as 86/1, so still 110mph 86s. One very quietly reached 129mph as well in 1970 with a streamlined nose cone, testing out for development of the APT. It's perhaps possible that a /2 somewhere was modified in some way that cleared it to 110mph but it didn't get reclassified, the /1s were reclassified due to the extent of their modifications including entirely new bogies.

 

I don't where I read this but it was said that two of the preserved examples can go 110mph, idk which two but when I read the numbers of the preserved units one of them was a 86/2. Also from some other forums but it was said that "86/2 were 86/0s with flexicoil suspension. 100 / 110 mph." so by the look of it our theory that some 86/2 could go 110mph and were able to achieve those speeds seems even more possible.

 

Only three survive in working order in the UK - 86259 and 86401 which are with West Coast Railways, and 86101 which is with Locomotive Services in Crewe. Being a /1 obviously this is one of the three that could operate at 110mph, and it's often used on charters, so this might be the 110mph preserved one you've actually heard about.
Alternatively, a small handful were exported and still survive in Europe. I wouldn't be able to comment on the modifications done to them, so it's possible that one of those might have been modified to a higher speed capability.

 

All mentioned DLCs are needing for the additional layers I can confirm; just downloaded SoS and I’ve now got all workings available including that weathered 08!

 

Anyone know why there's a pogo stick outside the buffet at Carnforth?

 

You can get pills for that (I’m told)

 

I get the joke lol.

Every time I lower the pantograph on the 87, it never seems to want to be raised again

 

Excellent route purchased today along with Blackpool, driving the 87 in TSW is brilliant, anyone else think the JT signals look abit odd & basic, the signals with Junction feathers look wrong with that round section at the base of the feather indicator. Otherwise brilliant job JT!

 

I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure that's what early generation colour light signals looked like, remember that they wouldn't necessarily be brand new when this route is set and that's almost 40 years ago, so they could be 50 or 60 year old signals.

 

I love the route and I'm being a terrible old nit-picker, but is the signalling prototypical? As I remember my spotting and travelling days on the WCML, the 4-colour signals were based on track circuit control, and unless there was a train occupying one of the three blocks ahead, signals were always (with some relatively rare exceptions) on green (as they still are today). In game they seem to be red and change to green ahead of an approaching train*. Happy to be corrected if my memory or understanding is at fault.

* which could be a limitation of the base game

PS I've noticed with pleasure that the HUD (the small banner in the top left of the screen) shows the speed limit as the lower of line speed and the max rated for the train, so freight shows 60mph or 75mph even when running on track rated at 100mph. Maybe this is a global change that I hadn't spotted on other routes.

 

I haven't got this DLC but yes, most of the signals would sit on green, these were the automatic signals and changed with track circuit clearance.
The rest were control signals and semi-automatic signals. Control signals were always at stop, until the signalman set up a route from one (they protect junctions, stations etc). Then there were semi-automatic signals which protect ground frames and emergency crossovers. Those were switched to automatic normally, but could revert to control signals by the signalman, if a cross over was to be used etc.

 

For the new mk2f coaches being introduced any chance we'll be getting the BSO types as idk if they were that up north during the 80s.

 

If the 87 is good, this route also provides a decent opportunity to finally let the 47 off the leash. If you hunt through the timetable there’s a non stop relief service from Preston to Carlisle at about 1630. Class 47 and Load 13! Once clear of Preston, apart from slowing for the 75 approaching Lancaster, plus a signal check approaching Carnforth, I have literally been on full throttle all the way. Now just past Oxenholme and still roaring away when I had to save and come off. 45 minutes of unadulterated Sulzer thrash! Speed topped out at 96 MPH on the flat but once the climb started after Carnforth dropped to around 70 - 75 MPH.

Magnificent and, it has to be said, the 47 sounds seem less bothered by stutter and squelch than the 87.

 

The Hardendale Railtours are interesting, I did the first part which is none stop from Preston to Carlisle, did it with a 47. Was looking forward to some thrash....and got stuck behind a 60mph rated freight train the whole way to Carlisle, that was an interesting run, chasing yellows pretty much the whole way.

 

Just saw this on Just Train's 2024 Year roundup but here are some new Dev Photos they have released enjoy.

 

Nice to see both types of pantograph there. Shouldn’t the newer high speed one be on the InterCity liveried one though - or is this just a case of JT mix and matching bits in an era of change?

 

It could be due to potential differences between the two batches of the class 86/2 which were slightly different however I can't seem to be able to find the difference but that difference could be the pantographs which would make sense.

 

In a word "no".

The modified pantograph work at Crewe didn't always coincide with repaints. As at 1/1/87 211/224/225 had new pantos but were still in BR Blue livery. There may be others that slipped through as my data for 1986/87 is from one source and requires cross-checking. Others may have had the modification in 1986 and run in BR Blue before getting the Inter-city livery.

 

So it said on the development blog that there would be 4 liveries, aside from BR Blue and IC Exec anyone care to guess at the others? I'm thinking possibly rfd and parcels red/black - not RES. They do have the Freightliner license covering the grey BR era so that is a possibility.

 

Fairly sure it’s a IC Scotrail one. But I could be wrong. Did that livery exist on the 86’s as well as 47’s?

 

It's worth noting off the bat that there seem to be two variations of the IC Exec livery on the dev blog - one with a yellow/black split headcode plate, and one with full yellow one, so if they count as a livery each, add BR blue and that leaves only one other.

 

No sadly it didn't, ScotRail livery looks good no matter the loco though!

 

Using the below mod, the 87 now works really well with RailDriver, including Run Up (which is the element which doesn't work properly without the mod):

https://www.trainsimcommunity.com/m...ing-of-uk-locomotives-for-tsw-5#comment-21318

 

one of them could be 86235 "Novelty" in her Rainhill150 livery but I have a feeling she wasn't in that livery in 1986. The 4 liveries could be four variants i.e BR Blue with the HI lamp and BR Blue without the HI lamp and the same for IC Executive

 

When did the NSE one appear?

 

1986 or 87 iirc

 

The reveal images showed two BR Blue images with and without the headlight, so two BR Blue liveries?

 

Yes. Yes.. and yes!

 

Was normal blue in '86 unfortunately. As for NSE, wasn't that only on 86401 and only from 1989?

 

Saw a video on YouTube of Penrtih station 1986-87 and it showed a 86401 in NSE livery.

 

If it's more than 3 months away it's coming with a route, isn't it?

 

No. It means they are still working on it. Jt have a high quality to meet and there are many things coming with the dlc like liveries and coaches and that will take time. Plus all the other stuff

 

If it were coming with a route thry'd have said by now.

 

Pretty sure there was an 86/2 knocking around with a silver/white roof - the two Rainhill liveries mentioned above were indeed gone by 1986. NSE, which is being mentioned a lot, was only on 86401 and there's been no mention of the sub-class (yet).

 

the Class 86 is a gameplay pack, it will add timetable services and scenarios into WCML north, and potentially Blackpool Branches. I would imagine it will also be available to sub in for the 87 on the WCML south community timetable made by Fawx. [pc only]

 

There appear to be two such services close behind each other. The one you mentioned is, I think, the Euston-Edinburgh additional, and just behind it there's a Birmingham-Edinburgh additional. I tried the Birmingham-Edinburgh, which has a slightly longer journey time and has calls at Lancaster and Penrith (not Oxenholme). It is a Class 47 with load 12.

Between Preston and Lancaster we just about got to 95mph, and dropped a minute. On the Lancaster - Penrith section it was flat out all the way to Shap summit. We were doing 65mph at Grayrigg, touched a maximum of 92mph at Tebay, and were down to 56mph by Shap summit. However, we dropped 4 minutes Lancaster-Penrith, and I'm confident there's nothing I could have done to get back any more than a minute of that. Penrith - Carlisle, being downgrade, we just about held time.

My feeling is that the schedule is actually intended for an electric loco (perhaps an 81-86). There's no way a 47 can keep to it. I'm not complaining - I like the opportunity to work a train with less power than booked and do my best to lose as little time as possible - but it's unusual in TSW.

 

That tracks with what could happen in reality. On my local line, the services were timed for Pacers, but due to their unreliability they could be swapped last minute for a 108 or loco + coaches. 31s struggled to keep time and the 108s didn't stand a chance.

 

That's what I've been wondering since this was announced though - what's actually missing from the WCML Shap timetable that the 86 and a different variant of the Mk2 coaches could add? So far, my assumption was that anything an 86 would've done in reality, the 87 does in TSW.

 

Perhaps more freight?

 

It doesn't come with any new wagons, so I doubt it.

 

Yeah but they can use the wagons that came with the route

 

Yes that's my thought too, that most of the diesel hauled WCML services are placeholders for the 86 & Coffins. I remember watching lots of loco changes at Preston back in the good old days, with wire scrapers going north and diesels coming on for the run south.

 

I see that freight and DMU services are now on Gen 8. Are these playable with the correct stock etc? If so, we'll done JT!

 

They're playable with the correct stock yes so you can now enjoy the challenge of hauling a heavy freight train on Gen8.

The trains are in a separate timetable though compared to the main one.

 

New look at one of the new 86/2 liveries and some interior shots of our favorite coaches.

Plus some interesting loco info
Also, we reveal an additional livery for the Class 86/2! We have previously shown you two of the included liveries, but this one makes it three with the addition of the red buffer beams and the black Headcode box. The liveries we showed previously to this had either a yellow Headcode box or a split black/yellow one. These slight livery changes happened during the mid-1980’s. The livery featured here, which has the additional centre headlight and the TDM (Time Division Multiplex) cables fitted on the front, is a unique variant for the class that is featured in our pack and was named ‘City of Coventry’. In real life and not in the case of this simulation, the TDM cables were originally fitted for lighting control of the coaches. Later BR adapted them for driver/guard communication.

The City of Coventry locomotive also has the Brecknell Willis High Speed Pantograph which is different in design to the normal Stone-Faiveley AMBR type as shown in the other included Class 86’s variants. The High-Speed Panto allowed a capable loco (which to be clear, this variant of the 86 is not), to run up to 125 MPH whereas the AMBR type was only allowed to run up to 100MPH