Just Trains Routes

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nick Y, Apr 8, 2021.

  1. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe JT objected because they are losing out on Sales if the combined version was available for free.
     
  2. IronBladder

    IronBladder Well-Known Member

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    That might be the reason, but combining two standalone routes doesn't disadvantage JT as you've still got to buy their two routes!
     
  3. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    If you buy direct JT get all the money but when you buy thru Steam JT only get a percentage and if it is on sale JT would get even less
     
  4. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    Hardware wise I'm running:

    Intel i7-10700 8 core 2.9GHz/4.8GHz
    GeForce RTX2060 6GB
    16GB RAM DDR4

    I'm using a 55" Sony Bravia 4K HDR TV (should only be capable of 120ghz) connected via the HDMI port on the gfx card. I've had fps rates topping 140 (according to the screen overlay) and that was running a scenario on SWML using the AP 158/159 which stated to tone the graphics down as it would cause crashing.

    In game graphics settings are:
    20210513120353_1.jpg 20210513120406_1.jpg 20210513120414_1.jpg

    I've been running on the 3840x2160 full screen setting since I installed TS21 on my PC. I originally ran on high or highest setting but dropped it to medium for a scenario on the SWML using the AP 158/159 add-on (as recommended by AP).
     
  5. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Then that's baffling. I have a 10 year old PC with a i7-3960x in it... 16GB of DDR3... a 1st gen SATA SSD, and a 6 year old GTX980Ti. I run with everything ,prey much on max at 2560x1600 with RWEnhancer Pro and ReShade running, and I've never seen anything drop as low as 12fps.
    Hz not GHz :) Yes, but that doesn't mean you can't have higher frame rates. Just that your screen will not show all the frames. If your panel is 120 Hz, it's just not showing you any more than 120 FPS is all. Your screen has nothing to do with the FPS the PC is capable of (unless it's a G-Sync equipped panel and G-Sync is switched on). I think something may be reporting inaccurately though, as I find it hard to believe a 2060 can deliver 125fps in Train Sim at 4k, but then again, looking at your settings, they're really quite low, especially shadow and water quality, and you have the minimum anti-aliasing set. You have occlusion set to off. Texture filtering is on minimum setting. No wonder you have high frame rates :)
    Just ignore that. It won't crash :) Crank everything back up. Don't obsess about frame rates. In a simulator like TS, anything over 30fps in the cab view, and 40fps in external views is all you need. I'd rather have 30fps with everything on max than 120FPS with low settings. Settings are not your problem if your maximum FPS is so high. Whatever is causing your 10fps dips, it's not your game settings as mine are pretty much cranked up and my hardware is crap! LOL

    That makes me suspect the drive, or even VRAM or PCI-E bus. You don't mention storage. As its clearly happening when loading in assets (not just running the game), I'd be looking at drive performance or even VRAM as culprit, but I'm fairly sure the RTX2060 has 6GB of VRAM, so it's not short of VRAM unless you have a driver issue, or there's a problem with your PCI bus. Have you actually tested the drive that TS is installed upon to see how it handles multiple I/O requests? Crystal Disk Mark is a good test for both large file transfer, and more importantly, multiple, small file transfers. It's not just GB/sec in large file transfers that matters, but how a drive handles multiple small file transfers and queue depths. This is why fast M.2 drives offer little advantage over SATA SSDs in gaming.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
  6. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    I have TS/Railworks installed on a 2TB SATA internal HDD (I'm not using the SSD as it's only 256GB).

    Is there any way to check the GFX card performance to see if that's causing an issue?

    Also, why would it be more noticeable on only the MML routes I have (Derby - Sheffield, Derby - Nottingham - Leicester and Derwent Valley)?
    I played one of the Derwent Valley scenarios yesterday (the 100 minute one) and it ran ok until after I departed the first station after Derby. Then I got the 1-2 second stutter/freeze between there and Belper. It again happened after Belper seemingly in the middle of nowhere.
    This issue can happen where there's not a lot going on (no towns/cities and only trees, bridges etc).
    It's more noticeable on the line between Derby and Nottingham and happens a lot more often on that route.

    I might uninstall the route and then try installing it again to see if that helps as I also had floating station signs at Derby last night (the station name ones).
     
  7. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I think that's your issue then. Your frame rates are good, but the mechanical HDD is struggling to load in time. A SSD, even a SATA one will solve your issue I reckon. They're really cheap. a 1TB SATA3 SSD is around £60 for a good one..... https://www.scan.co.uk/products/500...and-512mb-cache-read-560mb-s-write-530mb-s-98
     
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  8. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Incidentally, your rig is capable of running with much higher settings. Don't obsess over frame rate. You don't need it in a sim. You're not playing CS:GO... anything over 30fps is fine.

    Here's TS with the same settings you posted further up vs. everything cranked up and all the eye candy from RWEnhancer Pro and ReShade switched on. Even on my old creaky rig I'm getting +80fps or so with your settings (so yeah, 120fps with a 2060 is probably not unrealistic after all)... and with my usual maxed out settings with all the addons I'm getting around 30 to 35fps. That's a 50fps drop.. but can you honestly say that extra 50fps is visible?


    I know which I'd rather be playing though.

    You just don't need the FPS in a sim... whether it's a train sim or a flight sim. Anything over 30fps from the cab/cockpit view, or 40fps from the trackside is just fine, and TS20xx looks like hot garbage when you turn the settings down as low as you have it, so it's just not worth it.

    Your issue is your mechanical HDD. They may have semi-decent large contiguous file transfer speeds these days, but they utterly suck when it comes to loading up lots of tiny little files (especially if the drive has never been de-fragmented), and that is what TS is doing in the background.

    Ditch the HDD and you'll be fine.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
  9. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    JT might have objected since they see merging versions as a benefit from their site.

    Or something did not work. Maybe atomicdanny can answer here?
     
  10. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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  11. trainbraint

    trainbraint Well-Known Member

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    I think in the original workshop page the route said it was made with permission of JT.
     
  12. trev123

    trev123 Active Member

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    I got it on 9/11/2013. Check your account on JT.
     
  13. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Use Scan, They've been in the business for 35 years, and you'll struggle to get better prices from a reputable dealer anywhere else (depending on delivery charges). You can take your chance on Ebay I suppose, but there's a LOT of fake SSDs out there. The QVO has less durability than the EVO. The QVO is actually a cheaper drive than the EVO. The EVO uses faster NAND and has a larger, faster DRAM cache. It's just a much better drive. The prices between the two aren't that much so go for the EVO... just don't get it from Argos.

    From Scan the 1TB QVO is £93 and the 1TB EVO is £109. The advantage for Argos I suppose is you can click and collect, so I suppose you may want to do that as it avoids postage charges despite them being a bit crap when it comes to returns etc. There's nothing WRONG with the QVO, and it will still be a massive step up from your mechanical drive, it's just that for another £15 you can get a faster, more durable drive with the EVO.

    They just plug in using the standard SATA and power connections used for your current HDD - it's a direct replacement. They can be placed anywhere you like once plugged in, but like all devices, best located somewhere within your case with good airflow to keep temps cooler.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
  14. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    That would only tell me when I purchased the route and not when it was released on Sale - the question I asked.
    My Account says 24/12/2014 which is after when you purchased it.
     
  15. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Staff Member

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    Just trains were fine with it and gave me permission to do it, I took it down after seeing the amount of hostility that was on the DTG page, and also I had a couple of nasty comments about it, so decided to remove it and not carry on with it.

    I just decided to not bother with it, because I know down the line it would cause more pain than anything else (It's a good route - but I just decided to abandon it - I still have it though - but unfortunately it won't be going back on workshop)
     
  16. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Why was there hostility?
     
  17. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Staff Member

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    (mostly the Facebook page) More because the merged route was "pointless" because it's being sold by Just Trains, and also the hostility towards the Rolling Stock used on the Steam versions of the Just Trains routes. I thought I was helping those to have a version on steam, but it wasn't worth the hassle to be honest.
     
  18. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    You need to just ignore people. I do all the time, and life becomes far more tolerable. As you say, the merge woudl be useful for those who bought from Steam, many of which may not have even realised it is was a JT route. Not everyone is THAT well clued up, and just buy stuff off Steam.

    Relaunch it, and to hell with the naysayers.
     
  19. trev123

    trev123 Active Member

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    Back in those days, I use to buy DLC from JT almost on the day that it was released so my purchase wouldn't be far from the release date. I haven't purchased anything from JT for nearly two years as they show prices for me in US Dollars, I'm from NZ if you didn't already know and the conversion rate is too high. I just wait for something from JT that I want to go on Steam and purchase it from them with a saving of $20 NZ or more to JTs prices.
     
  20. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    My understanding is the Newcastle-Edinburgh route came out in 2013. I have no documentation of this, but the information from trev suggests this to be correct.
    The good news is the merge is virtually useless, anyway. The reason is because the merge was literally already done. The hostility might be from people upset because they might have been required to buy the Steam versions to use it, and already own them from JT in merged format. So I can understand the hostility in this instance.

    That doesn't make the hostility acceptable, however. But now I want to know if anyone can successfully upload a scenario to the Workshop from, say, Exeter to Penzance using the existing merge at JT. Might be a good test provided no AP or JT stock not on Steam is in it. My guess is no because the version at JT is configured to connect to WML, but it might just want the asset packs. If my suspicions are correct, the merge of South Devon and Cornish Main Line IS useful because Western Mainlines is not provided on Steam yet. If it ever is, then I would suggest that the Oxford to Bicester extension should just be added to the Steam release and the merged version made available as part of the Western Mainlines package. That way, owning all three automatically gives you the same merge we get at JT. This might be tricky, though.

    Either way, Danny's merge is useful because it's an abridged version of the route that JT has NOT merged in that format. It's valid to have. And provided the track is the same, scenarios for it should work on WML full merge, and can even be extended there if needed. (Though the freeware BHBP also covers that route and way more, so I don't know why anyone would use it. Not my business, though. Granted, it needs the China Clay route.)
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2021
  21. steve.cunningham1980

    steve.cunningham1980 Member

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    A little off-topic, but how exactly do you merge routes? Do you need a specific tool to do so? There are a lot of vague comments about route origins and cutting and pasting bits of files floating around the web, but nothing that I have seen in the way of a step by step guide
     
  22. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Staff Member

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    For the most part (if the route's point of origin is the same) for everything except track is copying files from one route to another, track is more complex though because you have to edit files and more chance of crashing (it's not hard to do, in my case I'm terrible at explaining it, but the times that I've tried 4 out of 5 people didn't understand, and out of those a few of them have gotten nasty about it)
     
  23. Aryffordd

    Aryffordd Guest

    It’s just terrible that people you’ve tried to help have been nasty, but please don’t let it put you off. For every arsehole out there, there’s a lot more people who are very grateful for your work. I’m incredibly grateful for your SWML/Welsh Marches merge for example, and I’m positive there’s loads of us who’s experience of TS would be greatly diminished without your additions.
     
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  24. trev123

    trev123 Active Member

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    I have just run the 60 minute Class 66 scenario to Derby I cannot remember the start point but most of the way I was getting about 70 FPS but it did drop to about 20 FPS about 6 times for a few seconds when tiles were loading. When this route first came out there were a lot of complaints about what FPS people were getting and it turned out it was something to do with the trees which JT fixed and the FPS improved. FPS you get depends on the scenery density. Ones with a lot of overhead wires etc on electrified routes take a big hit on your FPS, especially in the yards.
     
  25. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I think there must be another way of combining the routes

    On ATS there is the ECML combined
    ECML-S KX to Peterborough, CR Modern Peterborough to York, DPS York to Newcastle and JT Newcastle to Edinburgh
    4 Routes from 4 sources with different points of origin.

    Peter
     
  26. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I know another company RSSLO have developed such a tool and are now offering combined routes.
    And there is a chap on UKTS who has such a tool but he offers no help with is because, like you work, he got hassle from it
     
  27. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    I did put Danny on to Neils tool... uhhhh not quite how I meant that to sound but hey ho..

    I take it you couldn't get on with it then Danny, or is it more haven't had time to get around to it yet kind of thing?
     
  28. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Wait a second. They're charging for merged routes of two already purchased items? Is that even legal?
     
  29. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Staff Member

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    The first bit made me smile so thank you for that :D, seriously though I have spoken to him, and another person, but I don't want to say what has come out of it yet though (mostly because if it doesn't work as I've hoped ) and also I don't want to say something and then be expected to release something tomorrow :).

    They can if it's their own routes :P (Rsslo are selling merged versions of their own routes)
     
  30. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Great! A smile induced is a darkness reduced. (and yes I did just make that up off the top of my head :cool:)

    I hope it all works out for you. :)
     
  31. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, I see. Still makes me wonder why they feel it appropriate to basically charge for the extra "service" unless they have actually mapped and added more track (branches or extensions, if you will) along the routes related to the merge, which I can see making sense. I wonder if their TOS forbids "modification to route files in any form", meaning no one else is allowed to merge their routes, even on Steam Workshop where routes are available on Steam. (Would also mean you can't merge them either.)

    Are you a poet but just don't know it? Good words in kind mean peace of mind. The kind thoughts you source I agree with, of course, so I'll be in my corner as an English foreigner. :cool:
     
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  32. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Staff Member

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    What i meant was, it's their routes - they are can do what they want with them, that's all that i meant with them, as for merging them, I haven't asked them so I wouldn't know.
     
  33. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    RSSLO are selling a combined route that AFAIK does not come with any assets
    You have to own the routes being merged and therefore you have the required assets.

    Unlike Danny who does the route merges for free RSSLO are in the business of making money
     
  34. IronBladder

    IronBladder Well-Known Member

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    It seems entirely legal and reasonable to me. RSSLO sell three separate routes that are of different parts of western Austria. They also - for not much more money - will sell you something that joins up all three routes. Extra functionality, extra cost; that seems reasonable to me.

    If you buy a car and buy a caravan you normally have to pay extra to have a tow hook fitted to your car so they work together. What's the difference?
     
  35. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Also seems like wasted effort. I mean, people would have to make scenarios that drive the entire route. In the absence of scenarios, spending an extra $10 - let's call it that over here - seems wasted for just a quick drive across an extended map. Do scenarios exist that take advantage of the full route, or do they come with the merge to justify the extra money spent?
     
  36. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Staff Member

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    It may seem that way - but something to note - those routes probably didn't have the same point of origin to start with, so someone invested money to do that and spent time to make a tool to merge those routes - so there is that side too.
     
  37. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    As I said, though. It would be better if they created even a set of three scenarios to sell with the merge. Would validate the point of doing it in the first place. Otherwise, if the route is especially long for one sitting, it's hard to imagine a lot of people buying it for no real play other than quick drives. Merges tend to do better as freeware.

    Just my opinion, maybe they are having success I'm not aware of with theirs.
     
  38. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Do you think they would do it if it was not a success?
     
  39. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    I like Marsdonshire, it is an interesting layout with some excellent scenic touches. I wouldn’t say it was rubbish. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but I happen to like it.

    I wondered if anyone had an opinion on their TGV Atlantic High Speed Route and TGV Atlantique Train. I have never seen it in their sales or on Steam. Is it worth the money? I have it on my wishlist and would buy if they knock 30% off the price.
     
  40. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    The route and train were developed by Atlantic High Speed and Just Trains released the package.
    Another reason for it not to appear on Steam is their TVM Signalling only works with the included train - TGV Atlantique.
    For that reason I will ignore it as I cannot run a DTG train on that route or that train on a DTG route.

    They were developing the Eurostar and the Chunnel with Ashford - Lille but JT pulled out so AHS went to DTG
    But an unconfirmed report is DTG have dropped out die to problems with the package

    A shape really as a proper Eurostar and GNER 373 would have been great in the game

    Peter
     
  41. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you 749006. I didn’t realise you cannot drive anything but TGV and cannot use the TGV on other routes. Glad you mentioned that as I won’t waste my money unless it is ever marked down in their sale. JT sales only discount the same routes continually which most have.
     
  42. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    You could run the TGV from that route on non high speed routes but it is not worth it just for that.
     
  43. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, clearly it works for them. Just seems silly to me.
     

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