Keystone Corridor Route Suggestion

Discussion in 'Route Suggestions & Proposals' started by Keystone Railfan, Feb 23, 2018.

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  1. Yes

    33 vote(s)
    91.7%
  2. No

    3 vote(s)
    8.3%
  1. Keystone Railfan

    Keystone Railfan New Member

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    I would love to see the Keystone Corridor be added to Train Simulator 2018. The route is very iconic route. Spanning From the City of Brotherly Love, Philadelphia Pennsylvania, to the state capital Harrisburg Pennsylvania. The line holds septa regional rail which runs from Philadelphia to Thorndale, also the septa trains run under ground in to suburban station and Jefferson station. The Amtrak Keystone Sevice is the main amtrak service that runs. The Keystone Service stops at Paoli, Exton, Dowington, Coatesville, Parksburg, Lancaster, Mount Joy, Elizabethtown, Middletown, and Harrisburg. The other Amtrak train that runs is the Pennsylvanian which 2 trains run daily in each direction. The equipment that I think would go great with this route is the Metroliner Cab Car and standard Amfleet 1's. Another loco should be the Amtrak Acs-64 as it is the newest locomotive running on the corridor. Also the p42dc should be added for use on the pennsylvanian and also for the pennsylvanian should he Amfleet 2 cars. For Septa equipment I think that the Silverliner V would look very good with the route. A final Piece of septa equipment should be there Aem-7 or there newest Locomotive the Acs-64 and single level comet cars. I hope you take this suggestion to consideration. This route would be a good seller and would make a great addition to the Train Simulator collection.
     
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  2. Lawjester

    Lawjester Well-Known Member

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    Septa has rejected DTG in terms of licensing so that’s out of the picture, so it probably won’t happen.
     
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  3. NEC_Male_TC

    NEC_Male_TC Active Member

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    If Dovetail Games could get a partnership with SEPTA (which is doubtful), then the Keystone Corridor would be great! As long as they also include the Strasburg Railroad branch line in it for old-fashioned branch line steam operations so that not everything is modern, fast-paced passenger action.
     
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  4. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    I personally feel they should do the Keystone anyway. It's still Amtrak territory. Plus, it would hopefully spawn a Keystone Cab car which I feel should definitely be and have been included in TS. It would be awesome to have Philly to Harrisburg to put to use. Which is why I would love for the NEC to be redone from NY to DC which a merged Keystone Corridor. We have NJT arrows/Comets that are a very suitable substitute for the SEPTA equipment via repaints, or just use your creative imagination.
     
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  5. Bacon_BMW

    Bacon_BMW Active Member

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    The other thing that could happen is that third-party SEPTA DLC could be implemented into the game.
     
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  6. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    I sort of mentioned that, already. Though we currently have unofficial SEPTA equipment via repaints of the Arrows, The P32 Shoreliners and the M8's floating around somewhere, though I currently favor the Arrow III's better. But it may not even be likely that we'll even see it in 3rd party form, seeing as no one has yet come close to producing them, even despite the fact that there is a route we could run them on.
     
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  7. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    If they can't get a license from Septa, they could just make the Silverliners unbranded or blank, like they did with the Metra F40 on the BNSF Racetrack route. As long as there's no Septa logos or branding visible on the train, they aren't violating anything. They could just list it as "Philadelphia Commuter MU" or something like that.
     
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  8. Lawjester

    Lawjester Well-Known Member

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    That could happen, but a route without the “proper” logos is quite bland and definitely not the same. I personally would not like to see any routes made by DTG unbranded because it takes away from the realism but they have SEPTA reskins as Workshop content so maybe you could do that. Seems also MARC’s out of the picture too, because DTG had the same issue with them like they did with SEPTA.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  9. pschlik

    pschlik Well-Known Member

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    I frankly find it absurd that some people would rather have no DLC than unbranded DLC...just putting that out there that common knowledge is that something is better than nothing. I would definitely rather have this route and have some unbranded stuff than not have this route at all.
     
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  10. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Man, I couldn't agree more. I've always had this mindset when it comes to Train Simulator because there are just too many gaps to be picky about what comes with branding, and what doesn't. I've even proposed the idea to them a couple of years back that they should get into the habit of offering locos with both branded and unbranded versions so that it is easier for those to do repaints and not have to worry about covering up the original liveries.

    So, yes, I'd take all desired content even if it meant it came unbranded. Especially if it makes it easier for them to roll it out. Though I'm sure there are still other licensing issues that still applies.
     
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  11. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Similar to what they did with the Miami, and Pacific Surfliner routes. I agree. I would be for that, totally.
     
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  12. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    I actually don't think it would be that bad, especially considering that back in the 90s, Septa trains were pretty much blank, except for a Septa logo near the doors and on the front. You didn't have the red and blue stripes down the window like you do nowadays. Yeah, it wouldn't be entirely accurate, but it would be better than nothing. DTG has a choice here. Either tick off the hardcore railfans and make unbranded stuff for the majority who doesn't care, or don't make the unbranded to satisfy the hardcore railfans and ruin it for the majority who doesn't care. I think DTG would be able to make more off of it if they did it with unbranded Septa trains because it would make for a better experience, despite sacrificing some accuracy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
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  13. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Not to take a hard shot at DTG, but accuracy is something they still tend to struggle with, audio being one of their main issues. So having to offer things unbranded, should make things much easier for them. Give it just a couple of days to a week, someone is going to fill in the gap and viola.. Just like with the Arrow III's. Barely a day or two went by and had SEPTA branding.
     
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  14. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. That happened with the BNSF Racetrack. Not long after the route came out, somebody did reskins of the F40 and bi-levels where they just added the Metra logo. Somebody could very easily do the same with Septa.

    Oh and don't worry about taking hard shots at DTG. That's why I made this account here, mainly to call them out on their BS that I'm sick of dealing with and voice my opinions on their content. Not that they'll actually listen of course.
     
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  15. pschlik

    pschlik Well-Known Member

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    Completely agree. The hardcore people who are most likely to get upset by missing logos are also the people most likely to know how to repaint and be willing to mod the game-that kinda goes along with being hardcore. (Just look at Armstrong Powerhouse-they often have unbranded paintjobs, but nobody complains because those who buy from AP also tend to be good at handling other mod products that add in the branding) Then there is that tiny annoying mediumcore portion that is willing to complain, but not willing to do anything about it. Vocal minorities are the worst.
     
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  16. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    As someone like myself who has no skill in modifications of any kind, it’s a reason I feel the way I do about it. Because, the best I can do is express concern over certain and obvious inaccuracies that shouldn’t be ignored, that can be fixed, and just bring it to their attention. Liveries are really just whatever to me. Even if they only just released the Keystone route without SEPTA or any of its related equipment we currently still at least have something to work with.
     
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  17. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    We could always substitute the NJT Arrows for Silverliners. That's what I currently do for the Septa Trenton Line on the NYC-Philly route. Somebody already did a Septa reskin of those. Also for express trains, I just use the Amtrak AEM7 with the Shoreliner coaches from the Metro North P32DC pack. I like using those for Septa runs because the seats and wood panelling interior is more accurate to Septa's cars before they were recently remodeled. I think a few of the cab cars still have the old interior. These push pull sets could be used on rush hour express trains, such as the Great Valley Flyer, one of Septa's few named trains which runs local between Thorndale and Paoli and then express between Paoli and 30th Street. Also, the Strasburg Railroad would be a nice addition, but I think that would come as a separate extension later on.
     
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  18. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. The thing I really want them to actually bundle that route with, is an actual Amtrak Keystone cab car. That is like in my top 5 most wanted dlc for TS.
     
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  19. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    An ex Metroliner cab car is a must for TS. I've been wanting one so bad for a while now. They should actually do 2 phases of the cab car. One in the current Phase IV for the Keystone Service and another one in Phase III so we can use it with the Phase III Dash 8 to simulate the San Diegan service on the Pacific Surfliner route. You could also use it for the Springfield Shuttle on the New Haven-Springfield route, but that would still be kind of inaccurate since that route is heavily set in the 1950s/60s.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
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  20. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The Keystone Corridor is being built by a freelance builder.
     
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  21. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but is it going to be sold on Steam through DTG? Most of the community (including myself) doesn't buy content for TS from third party sites and whenever I download a Workshop route, it usually causes my game to brutally crash every time I try to play the route (the only exception being the DPS Simulation Portsmouth Direct Line which has since been removed from Steam Workshop). I don't think it really matters to most people if a freelance developer is making a particular route, because it's easier for most people just to buy their content on Steam. Also, if it's a freelance developer making it as a Workshop route or something, chances are we won't get the custom content that would be vital to making this route look realistic, such as trains, infrastructure, and scenery objects that currently don't exist in TS, unless the developer is making them from scratch for the route. I wish them luck, but I'm personally just going to wait and see if DTG releases the route, if they ever get over being denied a license by Septa and just make the route with unbranded Septa content.
     
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  22. Keystone Railfan

    Keystone Railfan New Member

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    Who is making it?
     
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  23. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Philip Andre Ortiz. Check out this group on Facebook: “Northeast Corridor Simulator Development.”
     
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  24. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    It will be free on Steam Workshop.
     
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  25. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Well then I'll gladly give it a try when it's done, providing it doesn't instantly crash my game like a lot of other Workshop routes have done.
     
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  26. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I love this idea- i live about a mile from this route and ride the Paoli-Thorndale line all the time. Sucks about no SEPTA branding, but there's still potential. Hopefully the ArcelorMittal (ex-Lukens) steel plant in Coatesville could be included; NS runs the only regular freight service on the line (that i'm aware of) from there to Conshohocken- and it still runs with an old caboose! Other cool stuff would be Overbrook yards and Malvern maintenance facility. Gets my vote!
     
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  27. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Septa repaints have been made.
     
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  28. Lawjester

    Lawjester Well-Known Member

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    Plus we have the Arrow III already so if DTG wants to make the Silverliners and the Keystone cab car that could work out well.
     
  29. Keystone Railfan

    Keystone Railfan New Member

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    I agree with you I live along the line aswell and ride amtrak to philadelphia and i have seen the NS freight train a bunch of times.
     
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  30. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    They could use the arrows, but it would have to be slightly modified to look like its SEPTA counterpart. Also, being that SEPTA isn't granting licenses for whatever their reasons, it could be branded as the Philadelphia Commuter, with some generic branding/livery.

    The Metroliner/Keystone Cab car, should certainly not be avoided on this route, it's been neglected far too long.
     
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  31. Meeper5

    Meeper5 Well-Known Member

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    best route
     
  32. Meeper5

    Meeper5 Well-Known Member

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    they dont even need to add septa it would be great if they did but in other routes like Stevens Pass they have a secton where sounder runs but they didnt add sounder
     
  33. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    There is just 1 Sounder station on the Stevens Pass route. There would be 23 Septa stations if they made the Keystone Corridor. 25 if they included Suburban and Jefferson stations. I mean, even if they didn't include a Septa train, we could probably use the existing NJT Arrows, but Septa is an essential part of the route. If they can't get a license, maybe they could make some unbranded Silverliners and just list it as "Philadelphia Commuter MU" or something like that, kinda like what they did for the Metrolink and Coaster trains for the Pacific Surfliner route.
     
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  34. Meeper5

    Meeper5 Well-Known Member

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    Couldn’t they make those undetailed ones like the Metra route for septa
     
  35. Anthony Vo

    Anthony Vo Member

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    would this also mean there'll be freight exchange with the Strasburg railroad co.?
     
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  36. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    If DTG were to take on the route, they would more than likely include trackage for freight operations.
     
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  37. Meeper5

    Meeper5 Well-Known Member

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    They would probably make Strasburg a one of those underdetailed lines or a separate route
     
  38. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Just to reinvigorate some interest in this route, because we have not received a modern US route for quite some time now. With the recent announcement of the TS2021 with the new London Euston-Birmingham route included, and at a length of 113 miles. I'd say this route would be very doable as it is shorter. While there are SEPTA stations along this corridor, the track is owned by Amtrak, if I'm not mistaken. Would be great to introduce a new Modern/Present-day Amtrak route. As too much focus is on freight.
     
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  39. Uncle Chuckles

    Uncle Chuckles Member

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    Isn't he the guy who did a NEC route that requires +10 different DLCs as well refuses to release it publicly? Or is that someone else I'm confusing him with.
     
  40. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Correct, that is him. And because his requirements are ridiculous is why it isn’t likely be widely used, if he ever intends to release it. But, I am the one who kinda told him off about what I, as well as others, felt he was doing. And using the project as a means to boost his fragile ego, and attain some level of relevance in the community.

    Understandably, it is a huge undertaking for one person. But he’s been offered help numerous times, no response, then when he finally admits he needed some assistance. He still never took the help.

    Then, most kept posting pics of the same areas , as if that is all the route consisted of. So it made many, including myself question his credibility in whether he was actually making any real progress throughout all the time he’s been developing it.

    Having said all that, is the reason why I, as well as some others, still feel DTG should certainly put this into consideration, if they haven’t already.

    would definitely incentivize the need for a Amtrak Ex-Metroliner cab car, that has also long been needed in TS20xx.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
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  41. jedi247

    jedi247 Well-Known Member

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    The Keystone Corridor was formerly owned by the Pennsylvania RR and later Penn Central, Conrail, and NS. I'd love to see this route set in the 50s with PRR GG1s, E44s, and a diesel or two (maybe an FM Trainmaster, Baldwin Sharknose, Alco RSD15, or SD9 Cadillac for heavy freights and a GP9, NW2, or RS3 for switching in Pittsburg's Conway Yard.
     
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  42. Uncle Chuckles

    Uncle Chuckles Member

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    mate we're talking about the Keystone Corridor not the entire PRR mainline from Philly to Pittsburgh. Even if we had the line made for TS by DTG it'd probably only come with a GG1 and GP9 for equipment, they're not really ones to go out of the way and make new equipment when they can pull from their preexisting archive. (Unless its a specific prototype for the route in question, then it'd probably be a separate DLC)
     
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  43. steammaster4449

    steammaster4449 Well-Known Member

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    Question: We talking about having the route how it currently is, with quadruple track only part of the way; how it used to be back in the day, with quadruple track all the way to Harrisburg and back with GG1's and the sort; or a what-if version of how it is nowadays but with the quadruple track all the way to Harrisburg and back?
     
  44. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    I would prefer the best time period where you get the most operational variety. I'm certainly not against a recent or modern-day version of the route, as that is what I would gravitate towards the most, personally.
     
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  45. prrsteamfan

    prrsteamfan Member

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    Both the modern and historic era representations both have their own merits I'd say. On one hand, commuter trains, branded or not, running alongside the Amtrak services would be an enjoyable experience. Who knows, this might invite the potential for a route merge that takes things well beyond the bounds of 30th Street Station. On the other hand, a mixed-traffic PRR renditon sounds fantastic. Of particular interest would be the short, but scenic P&T branch between Frazer and Thorndale, with its tall viaduct over Brandywine Creek, and the truss bridge that crosses the mainline at an angle above Thorndale station. For some sort of new rolling stock to include, I'd say that something like the GE E44, commonly used here would sufficiently represent freight operations on the line, while the venerable MP54 MU cars worked passenger services alongside GG1s. While not entirely accurate, I imagine that some players will use the NH E33 and the Metro North M2s here to benefit from a classic time warp.
     
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  46. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    It would just be nice to be offered something other than what we're mostly constantly bombarded with. Freight/mountainous routes.

    But it would be cool for DTG to actually package routes in a way that you could get both modern, and past versions of a particular route. As usually in a lot of cases, are only track configurations, and some scenery and station differences.
     
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