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Korail Ktx: Seoul To Busan Route Proposal.

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by BritishRail60062, Sep 18, 2020.

  1. BritishRail60062

    BritishRail60062 Member

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    Hi folks.

    I would like to propose a new add-on that is somewhat different to those that may have been suggested before and it is a Korean high speed train line that runs from Seoul to Busan. The trains used are the KTX1 that look like lengthened TGV Reseau trains but with a longer more pointed nose at the front and these were built by Alstom with some being built under licence by Hyundai.
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/102001308@N03/40746567961/

    There is also the KTX2 high speed train that is built by Hyundai Electric and it is loosely based on the TGV Duplex power cars but have coaches that are a blend of the TGV Reseau and Talgo blended together.
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/137132533@N02/35603536832/

    I think it would be great to include both trains into the route add variety to the player and AI trains but maybe an AI only EMU for the commuter trains around Seoul. I don't know how to display the photos of both trains and I don't want to break any copyrights so I have just posted links instead :) .

    I hope this idea is helpful and of interest to DTG.
     
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  2. Amin21.11

    Amin21.11 New Member

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    Hello, I too had proposed this high speed route from Seoul to Busan and the KTX 1 AND 2. It will be 1 or 2 years since I proposed this route for Train Simulator.
     

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    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
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  3. BritishRail60062

    BritishRail60062 Member

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    That's actually a good start and I think that if more people are interested in a route like this. That could prompt DTG into adding an add-on like this onto their project list and from my understanding. The KTX trains have been ignored by Train Simulator developers of most of them. Although there is one for Transport Fever 1 and 2, so that alone must have generated enough requests for that train to come as a mod so maybe if we can drum up some interest in an add-on like this. I am sure that DTG will invest in the resources and will likely make it in the future :) .
     
  4. TrainsAreBest

    TrainsAreBest New Member

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    Is Busan the same as Pusan?

    30 years a go I travelled on the Pusan to Seoul route and I was wondering if this high speed route follows the same route?
     
  5. BritishRail60062

    BritishRail60062 Member

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    I don't know to be honest mate. Some people say Pusan and others say Busan? So maybe its a different name or maybe its a different place. I know here where I live. Its called Londonderry or Derry. Maybe its similar for Busan/Pusan?
     
  6. DTG Jamie

    DTG Jamie Staff Member

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    Interesting route idea BritishRail60062 and Amin21.11, what is it that you like about this route and locomotives in particular? also when was the High Speed Lines built?
     
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  7. Amin21.11

    Amin21.11 New Member

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    [QUOTE = "DTG Jamie, poste: 193549, membre: 20876"] Idée intéressante d'itinéraire BritishRail60062 et Amin21.11, qu'est-ce que vous aimez dans cet itinéraire et les locomotives en particulier? aussi quand les lignes à grande vitesse ont-elles été construites? [/ QUOTE]

    Hello,
    I really like the KTX I and KTX II. The Seoul to Busan High Speed Line was put into operation on April 1, 2004, Seoul to Busan distance of 325 km of high speed line up to 300 km / h. The KTX I is made up of a 16-car train set and the KTX II is made up of either 1 train of 8 cars or a double train of 8 cars.
     
  8. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Yes Pusan and Busan are the same city. They are just different transliterations of the same name in Korean. Korean as a language does not differentiate between English style voiced and unvoiced stops like P/B, K/G, T/D based on voicing alone and does not use the western alphabet. So you'll see Gangman/Kangnam like the famous Gangnam Style song, Pusan/Busan, etc at times.

    Essentially, Korean does not have a P, B, K, G, T, or D sound like we know them in Indo-European languages like English, German, French, Spanish, Russian, etc. Instead they have sounds that are similar to them but not exactly the same. For one thing, in some languages, including the ones we're most used to in Europe and North America, there is a differentiation between the same sounds based on being voiced or not. Voicing simply means do your vocal chords also make noise and vibrate when you say the sound, or is the sound only made by the tongue/teeth/lips etc in your mouth. Put your hand on your throat by your vocal chords and make the B sound and then the P sound. You'll notice that you make the sound the exact same way with your mouth, the only difference is the B sound uses your vocal chords in your throat while the P sound does not. Same thing with G/K, and D/T (also Ch/J, V/F, and some others but we won't get into that). In English or German for example the difference between these two sounds is very, very important and which one we choose changes the meaning of a word. For example, The only difference between the sound of the word Bat and Pat is the voicing of the B/P sound, but the effect in the language is two completely different words with unrelated meanings.

    Korean does not have and does not make this distinction between the voicing of B/P, G/K, D/T etc. etc. However they have a completely different distinction between sounds that we do not use in most European languages called aspiration. Aspiration is the quick release of puff of air that comes out of your mouth when making a sound. Put your hand in front of your mouth and say the word, Pat. You'll feel a burst of air hit your hand from the letter P. Another test would be to hold a sheet of paper in front of your mouth and if it bends, the sound is aspirated. That's because in English when P is at the front of a word it is aspirated. We also have unaspirated versions of the sound. Say the word Spat and you'll notice that the P sound there does not have that same forceful burst of air that the P in Pat did (individual pronunciations and regional dialects and accents vary). That's because in English we do not aspirate those sounds in certain cases. However if I want to say Spat with a burst of air from the P and make is aspirated, it doesn't change the meaning of the word at all. That's because English does not make a distinction between aspirated and unaspirated sounds when it comes to the meaning of words. Aspirated P and unaspirated P are the same functional sound in English.

    Just like English makes a distinction between voicing and non-voicing of sounds but Korean doesn't, Korean makes a distinction between aspirated and unsapirated sounds while English does not. So An aspirated P sound and unaspirated P sound in Korean can change the meaning of a words, just like the voiceless P sound and voiced B sound do in English. This is reflected in each writing system. That's why we have the letter P and the letter B and not just a single letter. Korean is the same. They have different letters for aspirated and unaspirated sounds.

    There was an effort through the Revised Romanization of Korean back in 2000 to standardize the transliteration of Korean into the western alphabet and using the voiced letters, B, G, D became the official "correct" way to represent the unaspirated stops and P, K, and T were standardized to be the aspirated stops. In Korean, Busan is 부산시 which uses the letter for the unaspirated sound, so it should be the English letter B. However before this standardization there were other competing and unoffifical systems and sometimes you'll see the holdovers from that because trying to write Korean words in English letters and vice versa is not easy because the sounds do not line up well.

    Source: I lived in Seoul for 2 years and have my BA in Linguistics
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  9. BritishRail60062

    BritishRail60062 Member

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    Hi there.

    The reasons I like this route idea is because not only does it add a new high speed line into the game as well as the trains. The Korean KTX trains that is the KTX1 and the KTX2 are distant cousins to the French TGV trains and I think that if this line with the two trains were to be produced in the future. That would make for some interesting scenarios especially when negotiating the tracks around Seoul and at the other end at Busan (or is it Pusan).
     
  10. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    It's Busan, though they are the same city, just different spellings. See the essay I wrote above :D
     
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