1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Least Favorite Route?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by solicitr, Jan 21, 2021.

?
  1. Bakerloo Line

    31 vote(s)
    16.1%
  2. Schnellfahrstrecke Kol-Aachen

    7 vote(s)
    3.6%
  3. Sand Patch Grade

    67 vote(s)
    34.9%
  4. Great Western Express

    5 vote(s)
    2.6%
  5. Main-Spessart Bahn

    6 vote(s)
    3.1%
  6. Long Island Railroad

    52 vote(s)
    27.1%
  7. Northern Trans-Pennine

    10 vote(s)
    5.2%
  8. Rhein-Ruhr Osten

    3 vote(s)
    1.6%
  9. Peninsula Corridor

    16 vote(s)
    8.3%
  10. Hauptstrecke Rhein-Ruhr

    6 vote(s)
    3.1%
  11. Tees Valley Line

    9 vote(s)
    4.7%
  12. Ruhr-Sieg Nord

    6 vote(s)
    3.1%
  13. Rapid Transit

    44 vote(s)
    22.9%
  14. East Coast Way

    2 vote(s)
    1.0%
  15. Isle of Wight

    28 vote(s)
    14.6%
  16. Hauptstrecke Munchen-Augsburg

    2 vote(s)
    1.0%
  17. LGV Mediterranee

    7 vote(s)
    3.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    1,504
    Likes Received:
    1,918
    In addition to my earlier comments. HRR is not bad, but I think by now I have enough modern German routes, RSN, MSB, RRO, SKA, HMA, RT. It is unlikely I will buy the next ones as well. But I would love some historic German branch line.with Silberlingen, VT98 a bit of freight and so on.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,833
    Likes Received:
    6,924
    The 43 was excellent for the role it was cast in: high-speed, limited-stop express service. Indeed, the Intercity 125 is a modern classic, and was a huge success both financially and for BR's public image. Try taking that train - or an 800 - and running a 166's puddle-jumping timetable with it! The F40PH was okay for the Amtrak role, as I said. But not trying to do a 166 or Talent's job.

    "Older" is not the issue here. When CalTrain bought the F40s (the mid-1980s) they had the option of instead getting, for example, the DB Class 628 or the BR Pacer or Sprinter: all much better suited to the job.
     
  3. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2020
    Messages:
    468
    Likes Received:
    529
    Sure the 125 isn't bad, but if want to argue that the F40PH was bad then you could make the same argument for that. Why invest into a second rate high speed diesel that takes forever to get up to speed and can only do 125 when you could put in the extra money to electrify the main lines and potentially have way faster speeds and acceleration? Types like the Shinkansen already existed, and the TGV ain't much younger, so they had examples that shown that it was viable and superior. So why not invest into versions of those instead?

    The answer is cost, at the time it couldn't be justified to make these massive investments to improve infrastructure to allow that. So they went with a cheaper alternative that while not as ideal could still do the job. I think you and I would agree that despite the HST not being the best high speed train compared to electrics it still did its job well. And granted the F40PH is not anywhere near as extreme of an example as the HST I'm using, but the cost factor still applies.

    US regulations are pretty different from the UK, so you can't just grab one of those without doing extensive modifications. For example the Acela's technically a TGV, but it's massively modified for US regs, on the other side of the pond a Class 66 is a SD40-2 modified for UK regulations. You aren't getting UK & German designs like the DB Class 628 or the Pacer without having spend plenty of money in R&D having to test and redevelop it for the US market. And when you have options already available that can do what you need without having to spend that money it's gonna be the favored option. This is especially true when train travel was just coming off its lowest point in popularity.

    There's also the fact foreign competitors generally have a disadvantage given that there's a political advantage to keep manufacturing in the country. So you often have to work out deals for these foreign units, where as something local like the F40PH wouldn't need anything of the sort done.

    Now you might think that all of those factors in the long run wouldn't matter and making greater investments back then would've been better than basically kicking the can down the road. And I'd say sure, in retrospect I'd agree much more investment should've been made to US railroads to keep them competitive and have better units like EMUs. Likewise in the long run the UK sticking with its plan to entirely electrify the UK in the 80's would've been way better in the long run. But hindsight is 20/20, it's easy to criticize now, but it's always harder in the moment to make the correct choice. Regardless the HST isn't a bad loco just because it's not the best option, I'd argue the same for the F40PH.

    And besides, CalTrain are taking on those electric KISS units in the next few years, so they'll have EMUs soon enough.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,833
    Likes Received:
    6,924
    As if BR had that kind of money in 1974. It didn't.

    Viable? Not with US geography. At the typical distances between major cities, air is more efficient and economical. Only in the NEC or San Diego-San Francisco could a HST break even- except that would require acquiring new land through the most densely populated regions with the most expensive real estate in the country in order to lay the track. As it stands, California has spent untold billions to build 150 miles of HST line from nowhere through nowhere to nowhere.

    The US is not Europe or Japan: there's no money in passenger rail, other than commuter lines. Amtrak is only kept afloat by Federal subsidies to the tune of a billion dollars a year. The US has more miles of track than any other country, but the business of American railways is freight - to the tune of over 2.5 trillion ton-miles per year, amounting to almost a third of surface transport. And it's for that reason that the GP/SD family have been some of the most wildly successful locomotives ever built.

    ------------------

    Again, the HST worked well enough on hauls that were long enough for it to get up to and run at speed; after all, it was designed for it, and accelerates better than any freight-loco-in-passenger-dress (imagine trying it with a Class 66 Shed: as you say, the same loco as the F40). The F40PH was passable at mainline passenger service. But stop-and-start commuter rail? Neither the freight diesel nor the Class 43 would be any good at it; that's why lightweight DMUs exist.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2020
    Messages:
    468
    Likes Received:
    529
    I mean... Yeaaaah, that's why I said this.
    I was talking Britain, not the US.
    You missed my point, what I'm noting is that the HST is pretty poor compared the Shinkansen, which do pretty much the same type of service. Much like how you're arguing that types like the Pacer were better for commuter service than the F40PH. Neither are the best at what they do, but regardless they both did the job fine considering the better alternatives were too expensive to invest into at that point in history.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,833
    Likes Received:
    6,924
    I don't think it's a good comparison. Buying the Pacer or Sprinter would not have been by any means fiscally un-doable for CalTrain; probably not any more, or much more, than what they did buy. You're only purchasing rolling stock, not grading and laying rails, drilling tunnels, installing high-tech signaling, any of that. Just buying some DMUs, adapted to US regs (wouldn't even have to change the speedos from mph!). Whereas building a Shinkansen would have been (and still is) an absolutely insane amount of money.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2020
    Messages:
    525
    Likes Received:
    962
    I've got to go with LIRR and Penninsula Corridor. I really enjoy American routes, but IMO they picked two of the least interesting and monotonous routes possible. LIRR especially once you get out of Queens is just a straight shot of repeating stations and scenery. Extremely bland. I mean, that's how the route really is, so fine...but there are so many more interesting passenger routes even around the NYC area. As for Penninsula Corridor, again, just a very bland straight shot without much interest and honestly I don't feel the scenery models are much of an upgrade if they are at all over the TS201x version. A lot of it feels very...kuju.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Reventloff

    Reventloff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2020
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    792
    Nice thread actually! Interesting to see other opinions indeed.
    I cant see West Somerset and CN Oakville Sbd in the poll though... Are those the best routes and loved by all? ))

    Im personally not a big fan of Somerset Railway. It has nice views and certainly does its thing as heritage route, but in terms of my time played there (compared to other routes I have atm)... it has just too little variety of services = not much to do there as a driver. Had some shunting runs on Class 09 and had my time on Class 52 Western (very neat loco add-on). But not sure Ill ever come back there (at least not until a steam loco arrives there!).

    Surprised to see many negative vibes for Peninsula Corridor. I like it quite a lot to be honest. F40PH is quite a beast and took me some time to get used to it and hit the stations at last! MP36PH is also very neat and detailed loco and it adds layers so the route does not look deserted. And I like freight runs/shunting there, so I got MP15 add-on also and it adds lots of nice services at CEMOF and Special Celebration Train Services.

    Hm... on the other hand, I like Bakerloo Line too. So it seems Im just not in the mainstream, looking at the poll results :D
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    534
    Likes Received:
    1,001
    I don’t hate any route. I’ve played them all. But I find my enjoyment is mostly based on the location of the route. Looking at the time I spent playing, then most of my time is spent on German routes as it’s closest to where I live. Followed by British routes because that’s where I’m from. I also like The LGV because I’ve been on it a few times.

    American Routes have no connection to me and Freight is my least favourite so I voted Sandpatch Grade.

    I’m pretty sure that if Rivet do a decent job on Arosa, it will instantly become a favourite, just because it’s the nearest to home.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Messages:
    924
    Likes Received:
    1,730
    Sand Patch Grade & Rapid Transit are two routes I just don’t even consider playing anymore. I’m not sure what it is with US freight, I want to enjoy it but can’t and Rapid Transit is just “meh” in my opinion.
     
  11. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2019
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    998
    In the last few weeks, I have done about 700 miles on Sand Patch and I wish I could rescind my initial vote for SPG.

    I just couldn’t get over the horns. Now that I have, I realize that there are so many interesting and subtle things about SPG to discover. Also, the traffic patterns are more interesting than I initially gave them credit for, especially with the helper services and the Shaw mine turns that come with the C40-8.

    So, I woukd like to change my vote to Oakville. I love the GP-9 (nice horn - wish I could swap it into the CSX stuff), but I am not much into switching and the traffic patterns don’t intrigue me.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,180
    Likes Received:
    1,412
    The reason why I don’t like SKA is because the ai traffic is minimal- and that’s with the dosto added
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,833
    Likes Received:
    6,924
    In order not to feel empty, SKA desperately needs the S-Bahn layered in. But that would require modeling the BR 423.
     
  14. Articuno

    Articuno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    354
    Maybe this is another PC only layer, but I have SKA with S-Bahn services using the DB BR 422 from Rhein-Ruhr Osten as a sub-in, it adds quite a lot of services to the route, I think almost 200 (I can check later).
     
  15. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2020
    Messages:
    468
    Likes Received:
    529
    I never bought it for TSW for that reason, it has too little compared to other routes. Also don't like the standard stock selection for the route. I understand the Class 09 & 47 are very much engines that make have their stomping grounds there. But as someone that owns NTP and the freight pack they don't add anything for me seeing as I basically have both engines already, and I find main line ops way more interesting.
    Peninsula Corridor's a very well loved route for the exact reasons you say, by far the best received US route, LIRR's probably second. It's just most people have more interest in German & UK content, at least here, Likewise Bakerloo has its fans, it's just that not everyone finds going through a tunnel a thrilling experience. Also there's issues like the small (not that it's really that small) timetable and the headlights which are kinda dim, so that line needs some improvements.

    Edit, Clarification on the Peninsula Corridor statement.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  16. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Messages:
    1,189
    Likes Received:
    3,174
    It’s on all platforms, the S-Bahn layer has been there a while.

    The only issue with it is that it’s ran by the 422, rather than the 423.
     
  17. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,833
    Likes Received:
    6,924
    Just goes to show how there's no accounting for taste. Personally I find PC flat, monotonous, drab and uninteresting, even before you get to that horrible loco.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Articuno

    Articuno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    354
    Ahh ok.

    I just checked and you get 49 services with SKA base route (15 ICE and rest with Talent 2). The 422 from RRO adds 105 (!!!) additional services (S-Bahn). The Dosto cab car adds 18, the 146 adds 19, so 37 extra RE services with the Dostos from MSB, plus you get 30 freight services for the 185 from MSB for 221 total services. You are able to substitute the MRCE 185 from RRO onto the 6 intermodal freight services. I can also use the 143 as a substitute onto the RE services and the 6 intermodal freight services. The 185 from RSN is also able to use all 30 freight services. I have all the German DLC routes + locos so I guess they didn't put the DB BR 155 and 187 as able to substitute on this route.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. praxidike.meng

    praxidike.meng Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2019
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    298
    Voted for Rapid Transit and Main-Spessart Bahn.

    I return to Rapid Transit from time to time, only to be discouraged by it because it lacks traffic activity that area should have. It is otherwise a beautiful route and it's a shame it hasn't received the attention it deserves.
    Main-Spessart Bahn was among my top three driven routes in TSW2020. Since the preservation to TSW2 it is one of least driven routes I currently own, because the sound of the accompanying rolling stock has been completely messed up.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Djb1990

    Djb1990 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2020
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    121
    Begrudgingly chosen the bakerloo line too... I love the tube, love going on it in real life, and the history of the London underground fascinates me. Hell, I bought tsw2 on release day purely because of the bakerloo line (after just a short lived interest in tsw 2020 that i bought on a whim in a sale).

    The stations look incredible and I love the train, and I played it to death upon release, but once I played other routes (mainly ECW), I realised just how much I hate being in the tunnels and not having any scenery to look at. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if they were just a bit more illuminated... I still play it occasionally, but then I do one run, remember why I stopped playing it, and then don't touch it again for atleast another month...

    I'm now hooked on this game...but not because of the bakerloo line... In short, I came for the bakerloo line, but the other routes kept me here :D
     
    • Like Like x 4
  21. Lightspeed

    Lightspeed Active Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2020
    Messages:
    198
    Likes Received:
    197
    What’s the Buy American mandate I’ve been hearing about recently?
     
  22. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,833
    Likes Received:
    6,924
    Drive the control car, you can't hear the loco from there......
     
  23. space_ace96

    space_ace96 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2019
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    110
    So out of what I've played, I'd have to say I'm with the trend that SPG and LIRR are my least favorite. I much prefer passenger to freight, but that isn't my sole reason for kicking SPG while it's down, as I've found enjoyment doing the occasional freight run on RSN, MSB, HMA, and even PC. SPG is just so boring. I don't like long shunting services nor do I like driving mostly at 25 mph for over an hour with no adverse signals or traffic. Without an alerter, I can set the throttle and walk away for a good several minutes and nothing bad will happen, and that's what I don't like. The horn and bell sounds are also really bad. If I'm going to have little to do, I'd at least like it to be at high speed, with complex major stations to navigate or multiple safety systems to monitor and abide by. There's just something about cruising for a full route and seeing/hearing your various AWS, LZB, PZB, TVM, etc systems start flashing, honking, and beeping, calling you to attention to bring the train out of it's cruise and glide gracefully into a brightly lit terminal station (or mightily with horn honking and bell ringing in the case of US trains--nothing graceful about them lol) that makes it all the more fun and rewarding to do passenger stuff. The freight content I actually enjoy is either high-ish speed freight and/or engaging, for example the constant work to keep up with PZB in RSN and HMA and in particular the possibility in HMA that you'll need to yield to faster traffic, or that stopping regionals will have to yield to you. LIRR, like everyone else said about it, is just so empty and the sounds aren't great either. It'd be nice to get some loco pulled trains on that route to vary it up some. HRR and OSD are not my favorites either: Oakville for the same reason as SPG and HRR because of how short and forgettable it is. I actually tried to refund Oakville but made the mistake of doing some reading about the route and trains while the game was open, causing me to go over the 2 hours before realizing I didn't like it.

    I don't get the Peninsula Corridor hate. I know some people don't like passenger stuff or are used to the sleeker, faster, and more efficient European trains, but you gotta respect the things PC does well. Having both terminals in-game means almost all trains stay on the map except the exceptional few that go to Gilroy or Tamien (sp?), and you're always encountering other trains either in stations or while driving. The horns and bells and sounds in general are some of DTG's best work. The content, esp with DLC has a lot of variety--the F40PH workhorse, the modern and powerful MP36, the older and newer cab cars, light freight movements, and switching in passenger yards. Every type of service that's been in TSW except major freight shunting and freight loading is in it. The freight is also fun because even though you're not on a tight schedule, you can see the passenger trains rushing around you. If you lolligag too much, you can even see passenger trains chasing yellows and eventually stopped at reds behind you probably giving you the finger and hoping you get off the main soon. Honestly it's the only good American passenger route in TSW imo, and I wish we got another major US or Canada commuter rail line such as Metra, NJ Transit, MBTA, GO, MARC, etc
     
    • Like Like x 3
  24. davejc64

    davejc64 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2017
    Messages:
    263
    Likes Received:
    386
    The American routes for me, I just have no interest in them, I have tried to like them, but for some reason I can't.
     
  25. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2020
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    437
    SInce you asked.... WSR, would have voted for that if you had included it, I would have voted for the IoW but I don't have it due to vids I've watched, crap sounds and unrealistic cab motion, well I say cab motion but if it were modelled on the real thing it would be a very bumpy ride! Plus I have it in TS classic and got bored with that very quickly as scenario's are stifled by it being in the wrong period for it to be interesting. Go back in time when it was in steam then yes I would have bought it, luckily you can in TS.

    Bakerloo line too, crap sounds, only reason I won't play it.
    LGV too short for a High speed line boring after a few runs as no diversity in stock should have included some local Marseille lines with appropriate stock.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
  26. gfysps4gaming

    gfysps4gaming Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2020
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    46
    west somerset railway is not a pick witch sucks because i would of picked that its so dam zzzz low speed boring as my fav would have to go with east coastway it has the best frame rate in the game and is always fun to drive
     
  27. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2018
    Messages:
    724
    Likes Received:
    1,191
    I have the same problem with so low speeds. West Somerset is indeed a very nice route and very well represented but the speed, even if its realistic, it´s a real pain (5mph or 10mph at some places). Same happens with Sand Patch and it´s even worse as there it´s mainly A to B travel. Both are nice routes and I love those trains but it´s hard to sit during 1h in the cab there.

    Cheers
     
    • Like Like x 1
  28. Ferrovipathe67

    Ferrovipathe67 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2020
    Messages:
    241
    Likes Received:
    294
    for me I voted LGV but I will explain why? me who is French I like the TGV on TSW 2 but the line is not incredible it would take an exstantion until Lyon and after paris and I think that DTG you are able to continue this line but I ask for 100 more services and LGV connection LGV méditéranée and LGV Rhin Rhone and I propose in total 160services with TGV réseau and TGV réseau Duplex
     

Share This Page