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Lgv Ballast

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by ItsYa165, Nov 11, 2020.

  1. ItsYa165

    ItsYa165 Active Member

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    Short discussion in the TSC discord. The ballast texture is usually a lot brighter than this
    [​IMG]

    Because it is WIP, we and I figure that perhaps there is still time to make this change from dark ballast to bright ballast. This is also backed up by the artist's impression:
    upload_2020-11-11_18-29-53.png
     
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  2. ItsYa165

    ItsYa165 Active Member

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    Just to add, brighter ballast can prevent a route from feeling gloomy. And gloominess is not typically associated with summers in France.
     
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  3. ronaldix

    ronaldix Active Member

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    And the OHLE is wrong and ugly it's does not look like in the first picture IRL, it should be like it is in the artwork.
     
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  4. ItsYa165

    ItsYa165 Active Member

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    Yeah might be worth employing new wire drawing techniques for networks that have different arrangements. Even just drawing the slacked return wire would make a big difference rather than the bog-standard here's two parallel lines
     
  5. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I very much doubt DTG will change the catenary now, given how they handle OLE in the past, it seems a low priority for them to get it right.

    They can’t even manage to wire a route without sections of wire missing, for instance.
     
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  6. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    I have seen many different ballast colors going from white to grey or brown, in clear or dark variants, and even within the same same line itself. It all depends on where the stones used for the latest maintenance are comming from.

    That´s why we need a maintenance works DLC. Then you can just take the train, drop ballast and the route changes the ballast texture to the one you want that day :D

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
  7. ronaldix

    ronaldix Active Member

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    Yeah but the worst thing is that they used a recycled model from TS for the posts which were wrong back then and still are, the poles and every thing outside of the wires should be like in the artwork not like in the ingame screenshot.
     
  8. ItsYa165

    ItsYa165 Active Member

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    Because that's not coming any time soon, changing the ballast texture to bright is the most realistic thing DTG can do before they market this product finished. LGV should represent what the route is like in real life. Dark ballast is not this.

    The artist believes a great aesthetic comes from bright sunny days down the valley with cleaner brighter ballast that makes the whole scene more vibrant. Currently, the WIP is not taking this into account from the screenshots we've been given.

    It would be a shame if all the TSW2 routes continue to reuse the lifeless stones.
     
  9. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I'm no expert, but the catenary looks fine to me.
     
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  10. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I’m no expert on catenary either but I can see it’s a tiny bit different. One has an angle of 28 deg and the other has an angle of 29 deg. The shade of grey they have used for the ballast also clashes with my cushions. It’s simply not acceptable :D
     
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  11. max88183

    max88183 Member

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    I agree that the ballast colour has to be changed, hope Dovetail listens.
     
  12. ronaldix

    ronaldix Active Member

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    ha,ha,...:| If you can't see it well here's how it should be... In red is how it should be it's not quite the same is it? I'm sorry but it ruins the immersion for me and for many other people i spoke to. upload_2020-11-12_13-42-46.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2020
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  13. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    That's relatively minor imo.
     
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  14. ronaldix

    ronaldix Active Member

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    I disagree, when DTG did the bakerloo line they put GWE catenary on the WCML which was wrong and the english community moaned about it, it's kind of the same thing here.
     
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  15. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I can see it’s not exactly the same and my point was it is close enough for a computer game. For the very small number of people who are bothered by such a small difference, I would suggest focusing the mind on something else. In an ideal world, the catenary poles would be the exact dimensions of those in the real world, but actually a fairly close catenary model has been chosen. It’s some slightly different shaped poles that will be whizzing past at 300km/h and it really doesn’t matter.

    What matters is that the DLC works well and gives the player the feeling of driving fast on the TGV, and the enjoyment will come from operating the controls, following the signals, keeping to the speed limits, sitting in the detailed cab (from which you will not be able to discern the difference in the angle of the top member of the catenary support) and having a jolly good time to escape real life. You can always look at the track instead, unless the darkness of some simulated gravel is enough to completely ruin your day.
     
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  16. jamesbaby286

    jamesbaby286 Well-Known Member

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    I'd say it's more than the same thing as the WCML on Bakerloo since the WCML wasn't the focus of the Bakerloo route, so in that case it was minor. Here the route with odd catenary is the focus. It looks far oversized because of the altered dimensions and shouldn't tower over the loco like it does. Stuff like that alters the feel of the route. Just like the wrong ballast colour would.
     
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  17. animalkosmik

    animalkosmik Well-Known Member

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    TGV.jpg
     
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  18. ronaldix

    ronaldix Active Member

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    The difference for me is huge they are not looking the same at ALL it just shows the lack of attention to detail from DTG that does all the difference between an OK route and a great route. When you drive a train you're supposed to watch constantly 3 things; the cab, the track and the OHLE, and that's what I do when playing TSW or TS, so I see the catenary all the time and if it's wrong It isn't immersive and just don't play the game anymore...
     
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  19. ronaldix

    ronaldix Active Member

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    It doesn't look the same at all and you're showing me the catenary used on bridges which is not the same and is not the one showed in the screenshoot from the game...
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2020
  20. animalkosmik

    animalkosmik Well-Known Member

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    what bridges!?
    Untitled-1.jpg
     
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  21. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    You don’t have to compare it to real life. If you’re not comparing it to photographs it looks fine. It will look fine while you are driving the train. It’s not like they have put in full overhead gantries painted pink. The only difference is the angle of the top beam and isn’t huge at all, and if that’s enough to spoil the enjoyment of the route then you will never be happy with it. There will be a kiosk two metres further back on a platform somewhere and you’ll completely lose your mind.

    Anyway now that you know that the construction of those particular supports allows for different pole lengths and angles to make sure the catenary is in the right place (in real life) but that it’s never going to happen in a simulator, I’ll stop winding you up.
     
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  22. ronaldix

    ronaldix Active Member

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    Well I already don't enjoy very much the TS route because it has the same wrong catenary and wrong signals (Yes they recycled them from TS), its not the same thing if 1 kiosk is 2 metres away and literally all the catenary that you see all along the route looks wrong and not realistic...
     
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  23. ronaldix

    ronaldix Active Member

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    upload_2020-11-12_16-30-2.png
    Looks the same to you??? smh... And watch a cab-ride there's literally 1 in a thousand that's like that, plus DTG have that model too look in the TS version of the route you can see both models used they are not the same and I bet they're gonna re-use those in the TSW route but I don't mind given that they exist.
     
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  24. jamesbaby286

    jamesbaby286 Well-Known Member

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    I am glad the catenary they chose is representative of reality even if there are different styles depending on usage cases (it seems in tighter conditions like bridges and the inside curve of a track the featured type is used). It would be nice if they could include the other variety used in other places.
    Thanks animalkosmik for the reference images.

    Ultimately I do think the more pressing immediate issue is the ballast colour that is this topics purpose. That has the strongest impact and is big part to how, at a glance, I can tell a Mediterranean country's high speed route apart from other places in Europe like Germany and England.
     
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  25. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    My issue with this is that Matt and dtg advertise these routes as being built as realistic as how the route would be in real life. Clearly, that is not the case. When a company is advertising a route thatś supposed to represent how it is in real life, then there is an expectation from some paying customers that the route is built as realistic as possible otherwise dtg are falsy advertising their routes which it seems to be the case. Either they stop falsy advertising their routes as being modeled like in real life, or take the time to make sure everything including OHLE is modelled as realistically as possible because it can hurt the immersion factor if something is unrealistic
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2020
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  26. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I agree it should be as realistic as possible. The thing here is that the catenary is the correct kind it’s just the angles (which get adjusted on site in real life to get the correct height and alignment) are all set the same low angle on the model used, which probably isn’t how most of them would be set but it also isn’t massively wrong. If you look at pictures of the route the angles differ quite dramatically in places, as well as some different suspending rods (whatever they are called) being used. There are probably 20 variations of the same pole in reality, all set at different angles, and zooming in on one picture to point out a minor difference is just being nit-picky. Repeating that with a second variation of the pole singling out a feature as ‘wrong’ that is actually on one of the real poles in an earlier picture is just further digging a hole for yourself :D
     
  27. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I think the ballast color is a bigger issue than the catanery.
     
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  28. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The color also needs working on as well
     
  29. ItsYa165

    ItsYa165 Active Member

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    Actually all the caternary cantilevers differ. I'm more concerned about the fact that the wire drawing hasn't changed to account for the typical french waviness but oh well.

    Ballast is definitely the bigger problem.
     
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  30. jamesbaby286

    jamesbaby286 Well-Known Member

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    Just feel like I should bring this back up since the latest pictures of the route show that the same ballast of other routes is being used.
     
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  31. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    How ironic
     
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  32. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Looks like they have used the same (quite horrible and low res) looking ballast according to the latest screenshots.

    How hard can it be to change the ballast texture, seriously? If I can do it, then there’s no excuse for DTG not be be able to do it. There are plenty of resources and images online showing what the ballast looks like.
     
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  33. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    The catenary becomes a much larger issue in Marseille where you switch from 25kV to 1.5kV and the catenary should change a lot, yet it does not according to screenshots.

    ( https://forums.dovetailgames.com/posts/212414/ for reference)
     
  34. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I guess dtg are simply too lazy to do anything about that which is a joke
     
  35. martschuffing

    martschuffing Active Member

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    From some of the screenshots the lighting is too dull and the landscape not parched enough especially the further south you go.
     
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  36. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully the lighting will be improved
     
  37. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Looks fine to me.
     
  38. jamesbaby286

    jamesbaby286 Well-Known Member

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    It's also worth mentioning that although in TS20XX the ballast darkens slightly into Marseille, in reality it still has a much lighter colour than what we're currently being shown in TSW2.

    I'm not not going to get the route just because of the ballast colour, but it really is effecting how I look at the released pictures and don't think "Ah yes a French/Mediterranean route".

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
  39. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn’t say it’s a big enough issue to not get the route, but it does take a little away from the realism. Kinda like the incorrect Catenary Wires.
     
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  40. Lightspeed

    Lightspeed Active Member

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    The ballast on peninsula corridor is bright and that’s in the sun bleached land of California. Surely the dev team can make a slight adjustment to the ballast and make it more brighter?
     
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  41. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I agree
     

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