Linke Rheinstrecke: Mainz-koblenz

Spot on and it has a Working DB BR120 which fits a 1980s Kassel Würzburg Route when the High Speed line went Fulda Würzburg and the 103 prototype. The Museum might be the reference point for a heavy freight version of the DB BR110 the DB BR150

 

Hallo zusammen weiß jemand wann das add on linke Rhein Seite rauskommt? Da im Netz und auf der davetail Seite nichts steht

 

Vor Mai, ich denke.

 

Hallo oliverristau#4036, bitte demnächst öfters mal in Englisch posten, da dies ein englischsprachiges Forum ist. Laut letzter Roadmap soll die linke Rheinstrecke der nächste große Release nach den US-Bundles werden. Sprich sie müsste momentan den letzten Feinschliff bekommen und bald im Beta-Testing landen. Also können wir rund um Ostern damit rechnen, vielleicht schon Ende März/Anfang April.

 

This German documentary (which can only be viewed on Youtube, and not here) shows the late '90s aswell, from the perspective of the introduction of the BR 101. In the beginning I was sceptic, but it really seems like the route needs BR 101 substitution (for like 10-25% of services). The BR 101 is a stark contrast, being a thing of the future in a railway scene dominated by old practices, that were only slowly making way for the huge changes (both good and bad) DB AG would bring with it into the beginning of the 21st century. It would be really nice to have it on there for variety and gameplay, and I think it's a good fit and good representation of IC traffic at the time. Then all we need is something for freight and a BR 120 based InterRegio expansion pack, and we have a route that has a pretty damn accurate representation of DB in the '90s (albeit with the lack of dining coaches ).

 

Don’t know if you saw my post on this in another thread, but I’ve got some really bad news regarding this. According to the Fernverkehrsdatenbank, the 120 only pulled ICs on the Rheinstrecke in 1997 while the IRs were firmly in the hands of the 103. If we want to stay prototypical, a 120+IR DLC for this route is questionable.

 

Eh, I feel like that doesn't really matter. You could still have it as a DLC, with the DLC adding the 120 in front of IC trains, and IR coaches behind the BR 103. It would be a bit odd to have a loco and coaches DLC that aren't used together, but for future routes it makes sense layering wise I think. Just call it a 'long distance pack'. The 120 could then maybe sub onto 2 or 3 IR services, and a few more IC services, in the '90s the schedules weren't adhered super strictly, engine failures would lead to interesting lashups all the time.

I also saw the Datenbank, and putting all IR trains with the 120 would indeed not be prototypical, I just think you could lump them together in a pack and have them share tutorials on the training center, while using them somewhat seperately on Mainz-Koblenz.

After that perhaps they will layer together on future routes, but that's a thing for the future for now.

 

It would be interesting to get some insight as to why the 120, the granddaddy of modern thyristor-regulated 3-phase AC locos (that is, of all modern locos), intended by DB to be the Universal Engine to pull everything (the plan was to build 2000 of the things), was instead cancelled after 60 units and the whole fleet retired early.

 

There are reasons. The 120 was tested extensively, and performed well-enough, but was the first experience with three phase AC traction the world had. I'll sum up a few reasons for their small numbers and (seemingly) early phase-out.

• The BR 120 still had room for improvement, so instead of ordering it in the thousands DB decided to use them for experience, using that to build the hypothetical BR 121 (ar BR 120 with some improvements, akin to the BR 127 and BR 128 prototypes of the '90s).
• The DB wanted to save costs by running existing trains until they broke, meaning the older locomotives like the BR 103 stayed on for longer, before they were replaced with the new universal locomotive. In the meantime technology progressed, making the improvements that were possible compared to the BR 120 bigger and bigger, making it less attractive to build more of this type, with a new type being more attractive. This new type eventually became the BR 101, for which heavily modified BR 120s functioned as prototypes and experimental vehicles.
• The BR 120 was the only pressuretight locomotive DB had in the late '80s and early '90s. Their numbers were still small however, as DB refused to buy more of the type, choosing to run older types until the developement of a new universal locomotives later in the decade. This means that the 60 BR 120's were the only engines available for all freight, IC and IR traffic that made use of the new Hannover-Würzburg High Speed Line. The result was that the BR 120 was pushed way beyond it's designed specifications in the early years, pulling more and heavier trains nearly constantly with little time for maintenance. This lead to huge amounts of wear, and frame cracking later in their carreer, with their small numbers making a large scale rebuild unattractive.
• Intercity service is simply draining on locomotives. Even the BR 101, which was a very solid design, is worn out after less than 30 years of service. Combine this with the intensive use and abuse the BR 120 had early on in it's carreer, due to a lack of pressuretight engines, and you start to get a picture. The BR 120 was worn out, had frame damage, and was increasingly unreliable. With DB choosing to phase out loco hauled classic Intercities, it was possible to make these engines surplus to requirement, and thus phase the increasingly uneconomic engines out.
• By the time DB did decide on ordering new engines, around the mid '90s, a number of things had changed. Technology, especially in computers, had taken great strides. The series BR 120s had only a few differences with the prototypes, which dated to 1979, and thus was a quite dated design. DB opted to invest in new engines based on the BR 127 and 128 prototypes. In addition to that DB was reforming, into different sectors, meaning that an universal locomotive no longer made sense. Instead the branches ordered their own designs, with DB Cargo ordering the BR 152, 145 and later the 182 and 189. DB Fernverkehr ordered the BR 101 and DB Regio the BR 146, alongside many multiple units.

It all boils down to DB deciding to hold off on the change to a universal locomotive a bit longer, due to a combination of saving costs and wanting the BR 120 to prove itself a bit more. This then lead to a delay that was so long all-new designs made more sense, especially due to the devide of DB into sectors.

It's early retirement was caused mostly by it's overuse in the late '80s and '90s, combined with the heavy strain of operating Intercities on a daily basis for nearly three decades. The fact that the class had smaller numbers, making maintenance or even overhaul/rebuilding less economical than switching to the IC2 fleet also played a role in that.

The BR 120 just had kind of bad timing, being delivered in series only just before the German unification, which brought a lot of uncertainty but also record traffic to DB, stalling further orders for long enough to fall out of favor compared to newer designs.

A lot of the same things also go for the BR 101, which can be seen as a developement of the BR 120, and also had the potential to be an universal engine, but instead faces scrapping less than 30 years after it's entry into service. The BR 120 and 101 both are meeting unglorious fates, for engines that changed the face of (German) railways that much, albeit less then they could have.

 

Spot on here and there can be a 1980s timetable for Schnellfahrstrecke Hannover Würzburg Kassel Würzburg section this would mean all the freight services are actually carried out by the DB BR 120 IC and sleeper trains up the route. Nantenbacherkurve does it exist in the 1980s because it was built in 1994 from Rohrbach Bbf.
182 Universal Duty seems to be seen in Austria and Germany MRCE Black colour with the N-wagen

 

If there really is a Universal Engine in service today, it's the Eurosprinter/Taurus/182. (Ironic, in that from a corporate perspective the successor to 120 designer BBC is Bombardier > Alstom, makers of the competing, but non-universal, TRAXX engines)

 

However, AIUI in one sense the 120 lives on: the platform was the basis for the IC1 and IC2 power cars.

 

So, I’ve had an idea (as you do late at night) and would like to gather your thoughts. As some of you will no doubt know, a Br 103 remained in sporadic IC use until recently. I’m talking about 103 245-7. She mainly jumped in where needed in Munich primarily. This 103 is not exactly like the one we’re getting. It has no skirts (which the ones we’re getting shouldn’t have anyways) and is longer due to lengthened cabs.

My idea was that you could have (a very low chance) substitution on routes the 101 layers on to, mainly so that players could choose to use the 103 for an IC service themselves. To be frank, I’m not actually sure I like the idea. The model doesn’t quite match up and you’d rarely, if ever, see 103 245-7 on an IC that wasn’t coming from or was bound to Munich.

I’m curious what you all think. Would this be a nice idea to get more out of the 103 or would this be too much of a stretch for you?

 

And there's no 101 layer on Munich-Augsburg

 

Personally, I'd be okay, if the 103 substitutes with a very low chance for the IC-services! Or if you can choose the 103 instead of 101 in IC services in timetable.

 

I watched a drivers eye view from Koblenz to Mainz last night. With all the castles, castellated tunnels, river features, including Lorelei rock, they are going to have to go some to please us scenery nerds. . I hope it is worthwhile.

 

Exactly. The number of individual assets- castles, watchtowers, magazines, churches, tunnel portals, distinctive hotels and other large buildings - would be immense (if done right). This would go far beyond anything attempted to date; Riesa-Dresden only has maybe a dozen.

 

A DLC depot with the insane size of over 8GB was just added to SteamDB, as seen in WonterRail‘s very informative post. Judging by the complicated scenery and rolling stock, this could very well be Linke Rheinstrecke.

 

If they manage to capture all the special features of the track and bring it to life, this could become the best German DLC.

A prerequisite for success, however, are many, many new objects.

I hope DTG can keep the quality of BCC and (maybe) even improve it.

 

Oh it definetely has the potential to be a route to benchmark others by for quite a while. I also hope that the route release will be popular enough to warrant DLC's for this route, and future '90s (or potentially even older) vintage routes.

 

I noticed how many interesting historical structures there are on that stretch of line. I certainly hope DTG capture the character of the area.

The class BR120 looks like a very handsome loco, would love to see in in TSW.

 

The 120 is definitely a DLC candidate, since there are at least two routes (Bremen and Koblenz) on which it would be appropriate. (Niddertal is also right in terms of time, but I don't know if the 120 ever operated on it). Both an attractive loco, and historically mega-significant.

 

For the Niddertalbahn Bahnstrecke Frankfurt am Main Hbf Bad Vilbel Stockheim DB Baureihe 120 is only seen on the 15kv 16.7hz electric section Main Weser Bahn Frankfurt am Main Hbf Bad Vilbel. From Bad Vilbel to Stockheim it's diesel only

 

I was looking at the current traffic for this route on Wikipedia and it seems all the IC services will start and finish off the map and the same for local services. Would that have been the case in 1997?

 

I don't know if it would be right to use it as AI only but it definitely didn't operate on it as the route is unelectrified.

 

Today there is very little IC/ICE traffic on the LRS, but that is due to the opening in 2002 of the SFS Köln-Frankfurt. Wasn't around in 1997.

As of 1991, three IC routes (1, 2 and 5) ran between Koblenz and Mainz. None of course had a terminus in either place, because ICs are by definition long-distance services. Line 1 ran from Hamburg to either Munich or Vienna; 2 went from Dortmund to Munich, and 5 from Berlin to Basel, all by way of the LRS.

 

It will be interesting to see how they implement the timetable. I have spent quite some time on local services on the route being held in Bingen (heading to Koblenz or Mainz) waiting for delayed IC's to overtake, I think the record was 15 minutes, waiting for 4 to go past.
IIRC the IC's get priority with local services second, and freight third. That was one of the reasons why I took the RHS passenger service from Frankfurt to Koblenz, as the passenger train had priority over the freight and normally arrived on time. It could be a bit hit or miss on the LHS...

 

How about DB Baureihe 401 ICE1 ICE-T DB Baureihe 411 Linke Rheinstrecke Koblenz Bingen Mainz Frankfurt am Main Hbf these ICE trains are not cleared for Schnellfahrstrecke Rhein-Main. They should have the same priority as an Intercity train on LHS. Late nights DB MRCE Dispolok Baureihe 182 23:45 Koblenz 00:39 Mainz Frankfurt am Main Süd 01:20 01:57 Asschaffenburg Hbf 02:37 Würzburg Hbf service started as 21:39 Aachen Hauptbahnhof should have priority over regional and freight.

 

After about 2015/16 your right all it did was Munich to Ulm and vice versa but before this it would sometimes have booked trains all over Germany. But as you say it would be a nice idea to have a very rare chance of one to replace a 101 or use one that is preserved and do a railtour service with it.

 

Another possibility of Railtours is that it combines both West German TEE DB Baureihe 103 with East German Deutsche Reichsbahn Städteexpress orange and cream paint that is usually reserved for DR Baureihe 132 Ruhr Sieg Nord

 

I like that idea but if they were to make a railtour service i suspect they would either use the livery they already have or make a tee livery.

 

Also, does anyone have any guess of release timeframe? It seems to already have a depot allocated according to Wonter Rail's SteamDB findings (and quite a large one too). Perhaps end of march?

 

I would also say the end of March. Because now some improvements to the published US DLCs are necessary and the Addon Manager has priority. In other words, the route should currently be with the beta testers and is being fine-tuned. The steam locomotive DLC for WCL will probably be pushed in between.

 

Niddertalbahn is set to release before Linke Rheinstrecke, but apparently they should release close to each other.
And according to JD, Steam railtour has no set date atm.

 

I would guess the release date is going to be in the first half of April.

 

I guess that's why Rivet is involved in this DLC, because WCL is also their baby. For me it's one of the most beautiful scenic routes in TSW. The visual look with volumetric clouds above the coastline at Penzance or St Ives must be the more impressive than ever before. Who would have thought TOD4 would be such a game changer.

But this thread is about "Linke Rheinstrecke". One reason why both German routes could be offered so closely together can be DTG's new bundle marketing strategy. Similar to the previous US DLCs, there may be a German super bundle with the Rhine and the Nidder route as one package. But then hopefully with a discount on top. For me the BR103 alone is the selling point par excellence.

 

If the BR 103 is done well, it will probably be among my favourite locos in TSW, alongside the BR 101, 401, 403, 110 and Acela. The coaches promise to be great aswell, as they're based on the ones we already have, though it's a shame there will be no really 'new' ones. They will have new interiors and perhaps even new door types, and that's enough for me

 

Are the coaches not a diffrent livery?

 

Yeah they do have a new livery

 

A 1st class "n-Wagen" (with compartments) would be really great. But I don't think we'll get it.

 

It would be great if we did.

I hope at some point we have a German route set even further back, maybe the 70's or 80's.

I love your profile picture by the way.

 

Thanks so much.

The picture shows the currently active and perfectly restored 103 113 in action last summer.

It shows the condition before 1994, but already with stickers as a logo (instead of the tin signs).

 

What carriage are they behind it please? It looks like a pantograph above the first one.

 

The 1st class n-wagen were still around in the 90's, and would be a regular part of the train formation. We also need the restaurant/ dining/ QuickPik carriages for the express trains on this route as well, and to be honest, we need the British equivalents on SoS as well.

 

The 1st class carriages even drove in the train sets to the very end (somewhat modernized again and again).

But as I said, I don't believe that DTG will shoot other cars here. In any case, it would be nice.

 

It is a dining coach wich has a pantagraph for electrisity. Interstingly a few years ago on the Munich to Lindau and Oberstdorf at Imenstadt (where it split) they would put one on if they were short of coaches.

 

This is a service/supply vehicle. Unfortunately, I can't say whether the pantograph is still functional.

No, in that case this isn't a dining car.

 

I do still wonder about the freight wagons listed aswell. Is there an unannounced freight engine coming? Will they just be static? Will the BR 110 somehow haul them?

 

How much work would be needed to the 155 to get it period correct, assuming it worked in the area?

Would the 1112/143 have been used around there, although are they mainly passenger locos?

 

In the late 1990s most freight was still being hauled by aging 140s (and diesels), with the heavy ones using the brutally strong 151. Although this was after the merger, I don’t believe many former DR types were working that far west, because their depots were still in the former GDR. But as a practical matter the 155 is the only real option (the game’s 143 has the post-overhaul cab, not the original)