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Which was used for Boston Sprinter, While CSX made sense for Readville, but in Pawtucket, that yard is the P&W's, but no one really complained at the CSX units in that yard.

 

I honestly wouldn’t mind using the Caltrain MP15 for some freight services if we can’t get the actual thing. It’s better than nothing especially since the US routes lack some variation such as having freight on the routes. Be nice to see some freight on LIRR and some freight cars laying around in the yard near Jamaica where the LIRR diesel trains park.

 

Is there any hope of that "architectural mis-step" being remedied, and timetables being made more efficient? Timetable creation is something I'm extremely interested in, but this information combined with the learning curve of the editor is all very daunting. I'd love to have the ability to, somewhat easily, take an existing timetable and make "tweaks," or use existing timetables as a template for further development. That would allow folks who want freight layers to create their own, using whatever stock they want, and take some of the guesswork out of DTG's hands. I realize none of this is likely anytime soon, but I think it would be a worthy goal.

 

Well, that certainly deserves a considered replay, or several/

I would say the issue here is trying to draw a hard line, a go or no-go, across a continuum, or a couple of continua. One is that of realism, from maximum (or as close as pixels on a screen can get you), out along increasing levels of abstraction to Metroid level. Call it the conceptual "LOD curve." The other is what players find acceptable, which again runs over a large swath of individuals whose definitions of "good enough" vary quite a lot. And to complicate things, there are multiple curves for different variables; players of Zusi and Run-8 are hardcore about operational realism but are plainly willing to be lenient when it comes to visual detail.

So all I can do is try to describe my personal curves, as a more or less typical player and DLC customer. For me, this all is an exercise in willing suspension of disbelief; every one of us after all is filtering out the fact that we can't smell diesel fumes or feel the heat from the firebox. What a computer sim can give us is audio-visual, and the job is to find the level of mimesis which keeps most players' disbelief from doing a Hindenburg. For me, anyway, as the man on the Clapham Junction train, that comes down to what is observable at the level of attention I am likey to pay that asset. An AI train I am not going to be putting under a microscope, but it shouldn't smack me in the face- and therein lies my answer, at least, to livery questions and things like passenger on Oakville. I think only true anoraks and OSD sufferers are going to notice or care that an MP36 is not precisely an MP40. What however we will notice, and can't avoid noticing, is that one is silver and orange and the other is green. THAT is an incendiary round fired into my disbelief airship.

So this plays into questions such as the MP15 on Long Island. I wouldn't care, and I doubt many would even know, that the "correct" switcher is an MP15AC, not DC.* Can't tell them apart at a glance or even a fairly long look. (And, after all, DTG have long been willing to sub in the "wrong" train, whether BR612s or Class 375s, in the interest of keeping the scene appropriately busy.) But paintwork boldly declaring that the thing belongs in California is right out. A problem, then for any question of layering or substitution, that is, the auto-import as-is of a DLC the player might own. I think the only answer here is what might be called a "quickie reskin," the sort of thing which LD and modders do: an included (not imported) MP15 given an Amtrak repaint - but in this case what you have said is "never" the case: no time-consuming alterations to the 3D model or physics. This is at least to me an acceptable compromise between the level of fidelity I expect in "moving scenery," and DTG's interest in containing costs.

*Also, Amtrak's MP15s are all at Washington, but only geeks know that.

 

It's actually fairly simple, the MP15DC has the grill on the front, the MP15AC has them on the low sides of the front.



Also, if DTG were able to get references for an LIRR M9, why cant they, at a later date, ever add the LIRR MP15AC as a DLC loco instead, like how the Caltrain MP15DC was?

 

I would not take this dlc, I already have the LIRR v1 and I will not pay 30 euros for 20km more especially if the freight is not there.

Want to know Matt?

Well put the mp15 with a skin, that will do the trick, I don't care if it's 100% real, I prefer 50% real and have that damn freight.
If you do, I will consider purchasing this DLC and even at full price!

By absolutely wanting to recreate reality at 100% we end up having only 50% of the reality and the potential of the road and services, so do it in 50% fictitious with freight services and a redskinned mp15 and we will finally have 100 % of what the dlc costs.

 

Speaking only for myself on all points here, obviously.

This will be ironic considering the rest of the post- maybe DON'T always listen to the forum's loudest voices all the time. Obviously it should be part of your consideration, but i hope you put more weight on surveys, etc that reach a larger portion of the playerbase.

I was one of the (quieter i guess) voices yelling that you SHOULDN'T disable the NS/UP substitution on Sandpatch. Additionally, I think lack of freight car substitution (separate issue i realize) is a big drag on the immersion on US routes.

Maybe it's less so now, but one of my favorite things about trainspotting was counting all the different road names and reporting marks; between contemporary operators and fallen flags, there are tons of opporunities to add these in (and just take better advantage of what's already in the game). The fallen-flag livery packs are a cool idea, but it would even be better for freight-cars (e.g. many of us have seen an NS Gondola that is ex-Conrail, ex-NYC, ex-PRR, and still carries all or some of its old markings)

To answer your hypotheticals about the MP15 for LIRR and CSX for NY&A- YES PLEASE! Fantastic idea IMO, i think this would even be a case where unbranded would make some sense- you could say that these were "just acquired" by LIRR/NY&A, and therefore are being patched/repainted- maybe that would even alllow for a rusty/very weathered model if it doesn't actually have any TOC branding on it?

Appreciate your insights and for taking time to interact on here.

Just pre-ordered LIRR2 and can't wait for tomorrow!!

 

Anyone interested Brandon will be playing the new Long Island Rail Road 2.0 route that includes the Long Beach branch, M9, improved signaling/physics, and more! Also, he will do a deep dive into signaling and answer any other questions of the route that you may have.
https://www.youtube.com/live/Y4YM96H2bCQ?si=1T0ybG542YhzAzDV

 

So EXCITED CANT WAIT. Does anyone know what time it will be release tomorrow?

 

I personally don't have much with american rail and for me the full route price is a bit steep. but seeing how it looks and the consideration of possible freight AI it does look like an interesting route. Like fife circle I'm waiting on a sale to consider getting it. I feel the 10% loyalty isn't enough for me.

On the concept of this freight substitution. I am 100% in favor. it's so dissapointing seeing empty stations ingame. even on recent routes like Salzburg - Rosenheim missing all AI S2 and REX trains. I hope they are considered to be added when cityshuttle and more austrian stock releases. I personally am using the 4024 and wish a 4023 existed to use in that timetable. maybe one day some westbahn KISS too. Seeing Freilassing I think the developer of that timetable puts a lot of love into the german side of passenger but Freight isn't really coming off to much. the unused yard, weird two freight trains behind each other and all freight going through freilassing blocking passenger trains everywhere. there's a whole lot wrong with that station but I fear it will not be helped even if I submit a bug report. For american routes it's a full yes too. I haven't learned how to drive freight there but driving passenger and seeing a massive freight train passing by definetely helps me wanting to learn.

 

I would be interested in seeing this for UK content specifically in the form of a debranded Cross-Country HST and Turbostar for use on eg. Birmingham Cross-City and MML, if the likelihood of obtaining a correct license remains at zero.

 

De-branded stuff is controversial in TSW. Seems like players are pretty split where some would want unbranded trains just to fill out the scenery where others would rather have more empty tracks and siding than having unrealistic or unbranded rolling stock.

US freight might be doable since it is somewhat common for small regional class 2 and 3 freight railways to have a bunch of old locos that wear random liveries or even class 1 liveries with the logos painted over.

 

Agree. Perhaps it would be helpful to be able to switch timetable layers on/off before such a concept was introduced in order to satisfy all users.

 

If clearly marketed as not entirely accurate and including timetable services etc. I'd support that.

I haven't seen much criticism from players of debranded liveries. I suspect the bigger problem is that DTG worry it might affect their relationship with licensors.

 

I was one of the people that backlashed on this but I will clarify that my issues were never with the concept itself but more how it looked in implementation. At least back when it was done more.

Foreign power/subbing would be very reasonable for US freight routes because that is basically par the course in real life but there are two things that need to be considered in implementation:

1. The "home" railway would/should definitely be more represented. There was a time with SPG where if you had any of the Union Pacific DLCs installed, they seemed to sub at a rate which must have been close to 1:1 because the Cumberland yard would always be full of UP yellow, and most of the trains you'd see going up and down the route were full of UP locos. In reality they should show up but typically at a much lower spawn rate than the "home" locos. It threw off the feel of the route completely.

2. The subbing should only be for the more modern main line locos. GEVOs, AC44s, SD70ACes, and stuff like that could/would show up all over the country. But things like SD40s and GP38s are relegated to yard/local stuff now and stay in their own territory for the most part. Again with SPG with the UP and BNSF SD40s (and I think the NS GP38) showing up, now you see UP and BNSF locos doing yard switching and stuff which is way unrealistic for that type of operation.

SPG right now is still a bit borked because nowadays (at least the last time I played it) you will see the BNSF SD40 appear on it (which would not be very correct) but none of the big mainline locos from other routes (which would be more accurate).

 

VIDEO OF RIDE LONG BEACH - PENN STATION
I have found and watched a 3 year old video of the full run from Long Beach into Penn Station. It was filmed by a passenger so is technically a front view video and not a cab ride video. Depending on how the motorman positions the door to the cab, the front left seat can be available to passengers. There is a LIRR MP15 sitting in a layover track as the train enter Jamaica. Also noted that it seems those diesels used by LIRR are dual mode, because we followed one into Penn Station and also saw one leaving.

⁴ᴷ⁶⁰ Long Island Railroad Front Window View - The Westbound Long Beach Branch (youtube.com)

 

My quick thought is that busy=fun! I find myself always going back to routes that have strong traffic. I especially use the spreadsheet from “best runs” and I actively even look for a service that has a chance of a passing freight. With that said, I’m not a big freight driver (enjoy it, but feel sometimes I don’t have to do much but watch the scenery in notch 8). However I do think anything that can add to the immersion and “eye candy” of a route can help. It’s like a lose-lose sometimes with these routes because there is no way to make everyone happy (personally I think it’s fully justified cost, I’m happy to pay, for this “new” route but others don’t agree with that and that’s ok to think as well). I personally feel in the last year that a lot of things happening with DTG and the routes/DLC has been going in an excellent direction, and I couldn’t be happier with what I see coming in the next months (especially tomorrow!).

edited to add: I was for example suggesting I would like to see a slightly “off model” of a switcher in LIRR/reskin in Jamaica or a “green and black” odd pairing of reskinned GP38/MP15 pulling the occasional freight around the line if it is as simple as that. Obviously I have no concept of how a route is designed or built, but I am in the camp that more “stuff” around even if 100% accuracy. 97% accurate flying by it is good for me! As a console player that would be a nice addition I think.

 

Going with what you said mikeW1015, there is no reason that we couldn't get a LIRR MP15 pulling freight, if MTA would not mind.

 

pull freight to where???????? and LIRR doesn't pull freight they use the MP15 for work and MOW duties ONLY

 

Yeah. I have had situations where I didn't like the layers that DLC A created on DLC B so I would uninstall DLC A when I wanted to play DLC B but that whole process is convoluted and annoying.

 

The issue there was simply an incorrectly set rarity parameter. If foreign power appeared at a reaistic frequency, it would be great; but apparently the way it was the UP locos were given the same rarity factor as CSX alternates, and often it seemd there was more yellow than blue traction on the route!

A case of baby and bathwater.

 

This was a follow on from Matt's post and others about using something to add freight to the route. I very well know that NY&A is the designated freight carrier on this route and DTG does not have a license for their logo.

 

I liked the time if there was the UP SD70Ace and AC44 available on SPG. It makes fun to have more variation. And in the services I run there, there were always more CSX stuff than UP stuff. The was with the Clinchfield SD40 at SPG.

 

Hi Matt. I wouldn't have a problem with the Caltrain MP36 at OSD, the CSX GP38-2 at LIRR2.0 and so on.

 

I would say, for AI traffic. People get a lot fussier when it's a train they can get in, because then they do notice the up-close details. (This does have the advantage also of using less processing overhead, I would guess, than a fully-featured loco)

 

Hi Matt. Instead of having nothing I would prefer new loco variants (BNSF GP38-2, NY GP38-2) even with not new soumd and physics. Because on the other side we had that with the ÖBB Talent 1 too.

In that wayt would be not difficult to make an ES44AC for CSX, UP, CN and BNSF. The same with an AC44 for BNSF, NS and CN. And the same with the SD70ACe, GP38-2 and MP15.

And a simple change from the UP GP38-2 in a BNSF GP38-2 would be very nice for use at BNSF Kaiser Hub at the San Bernardino Line.

That loko could sub in CJP too. And the UP GP38-2 would be nice at SMH and Cane Creek too.

 

I don't know enough about the US railways to know whether a certain train would be out of place, but a recent UK example would be the Fife Circle Line where on the preview Matt told us we couldn't have the HST because the one on ScotRail has sliding doors whereas the one in the game has old slam shut doors - I think that's a perfect example of 100% authenticity getting in the way, I would have been very happy with a simple re-skin even if the doors were the wrong type.

 

Completely agree with you mate. Especially because even there is a nice Scotrail reskin in creators club you can't use it at the scottish routes in Freeroam so far.

 

Here's a video That Matt made for safety system

 

Low-door Dostos.......