London Overground Mildmay Line: Stratford-willesden Junction Discussion Thread

Give the guy props for this. One bloke doing it alone is great I think

 

I'll PROBABLY buy this route at full price (which I never do) to support the dude - such a first job looks very promising

 

No Richmond, no purchase. I mean this should have been a complete North London Line extension to the existing GoblinLine not another short disconnected route.

 

This thread, mainly some of the negative comments shows how much I dislike this community sometimes.

A one man route is phenomenonal, and even if it is only half the distance is more than I can ever do, so I'm likely going to get it

 

Yep..same as when ats were announced doing their 1st route. Just have to imagine what it's like for them learning unreal builder etc.

 

That's why you look for scenarios on the Steam Workshop instead! I do agree with your points that TSC scenario creators tend to display absolutely no restraint with requirements though.

But is asking for an extra 5 miles really that unreasonable?

 

Thanks, I remembered a while after writing that, I should have know as I'm following his project - been away and got out of touch!

 

18 stations on a bus like metro service is still a decent run.

 

5 miles through Central London is a hell of a lot more work for a single dev doing his own passion project, don't forget he's bringing a new train to the party as well.

 

Nothing prevents him from completing the route with a free update, as Rivet recently did with the Leven branch

 

I wouldn't call Richmond-Willesden Central London.

 

Route length isn't everything, Goblin line is short but is one of the most detailed routes in the entire game. This route has more stations, has a lot more going on in terms of traffic and a much denser area of London.

 

Not being negative at all, but the point being this is not some freeware contribution - it will no doubt be selling for whatever the going rate is for a short route is probably £25. £8 more got us the 90 plus miles of WCMLOS and a brand new AC loco. If you’re looking for a payday then it’s the appeal of the end product that counts, not sympathy for having to learn the tools or being a solo enterprise.

 

Yep..sometimes it's about quality over quantity

 

The Suffragette Line is a complete end to end route. There probably would've been a similar mixed reaction if that route went from Gospel Oak to Blackhorse Road

 

Probably not, it would be much worse. Not only was it made by DTG but also is less dense and much much shorter.

 

There is a core of the community who will be all over it and for good reason, the photos look fantastic and the 378 will be a welcome addition (although the likelihood of it popping up as AI on Brighton Main Line is unlikely).
This is a route I've travelled many times over my lifetime from Richmond. As a kid it was to Broad Street, as an adult now to Hackney Wick or Stratford when I'm working at the Copper Box or London Stadium.
And I appreciate the fact it's a single developer - building a route by yourself is hard, been there. Any new addition to help build the portfolio of routes in TSW is always welcome.
But it needs to be to either Richmond or Clapham Junction, Willesden Junction isn't the terminus.
Had it gone to either one, I'm all over it.
Richmond would have had me hooked as you'd also travel past Old Oak common, get to do the power changeover in Acton, travel through the unique/ugly Gunnersbury and and of course, cross the Thames via the Kew railway Bridge.

I can understand a big route like WCML in sections, it's just not possible in this sim to go from Euston to Glasgow Central in one route. But to only do part of a London Overground line doesn't entice me.

It's something I might get in a sale somewhere down the line, but I won't be rushing out to buy it.
That said I wish Johannes Hartmann all the best in his endeavours.

 

Not to overshadow this or get off topic but I am very excited to see more about this route..presume it will come in next roadmap..when will that be?

 

Service mode really isn't the game changing feature people think it is. The timetable on this route will just be the same service pattern copied every x minutes all day. If you play one service, you've played all of them.

There is also no way Mr Incredible is working on the route all by himself - the train itself will have a number of people at DTG working on it, and the scenery, timetable and modelling will have major contributions from DTG too.

For the sake of comparison, assuming the AP 378 EP will cost £12 (they'll have a hard time selling it for more), you can get that and the North London and Goblin Lines route for £9 right now for much less than the TSW route will cost. If you buy the route at the full price, the package will still likely be cheaper or not much more... And the route is the whole North London Line, with the entire West London Line, and the Goblin Line for good measure.

 

Some of you guys are brutal.
It may not be what YOU want, but let's see what it's like on release before shooting the project down in flames.

 

This was a similar situation with when ats announced their first route. I would always support new devs. Like I said it's sometimes quality over quantity.

 

With all due respect, what were you expecting? This thread was created so people can give their honest opinions regardless if it's positive or negative. You shouldn't dislike people simply for giving an opinion that you may not agree with.

Based on the responses, people think that the route is well made given the screenshots shown but the mixed reception comes from the fact that the full line isn't included which is understandable

 

As someone who worked on the ATS route... Any criticism of it is justified, but I can't go into any details as to why that is.

 

I'll say it once and I'll say it again people are welcome to buy it if they are happy... Go for it. It's your money.

But I won't be buying a partial, disconnected Overground route. Solo developer or not its just utterly silly to give us a partial part of an extremely small line... London Overground routes given their extremely short nature should be included in full. Where does it end? We start to see this become the normal for short routes, becoming even shorter? Seeing them slashed in length when they are small already? Nah. Just not having it.

Fair play the the geezer for developing this on his own and it's nothing personal, but to only develop it partially, and stop it only a few stops away from the terminating point? That's odd thinking... It's such a short route anyway, so to cut off at Willesden? I'm just not buying the excuses people are making for it at the moment, and I just feel by making excuses, this will enable other developers to try and normalise the idea of developing shorter cut off routes, or cutting already short routes, but then charging the full standard price for less work. I don't know if the developer had to meet a set deadline which has led to it being cut back, or genuinely believed it was a good idea?

Money talks so that will be the deciding factor. If people are silly enough to buy it just for the novelty of driving a 378 on a very short section of track, then that's upto them... But I just feel it only encourages these silly things and half baked ideas to continue.

Not only that but by the sounds of it, at this moment in time, the 378 will only be exclusive for this route and won't layer in as playable services on the other (full!) Watford DC route.

**Edit** just to also add even IF and extension happened at a later date, why not just wait and release the route as a whole? This isn't Rivet where they literally had to wait for Leven to be built. It's already there!

 

Ah so you have worked on the route? Which aspects may I ask? And assume it's looking decent

 

Good look to Johannes with getting it out to the players.

I think if there was more to be added to this route the branch to Clapham is the most tantalising with the opportunity to add a fifth route hop on BML. But maybe it will all make sense when we get the big surprise on 20th Dec (South West Mainline maybe? )

 

Yes, I did work on the route. As I said, I can't go into details, but it wasn't a great experience.

 

Ok holy cow that changes everything. If you managed to do the train AND the route... hats off to you man, well done!!

 

The Class 710s are the only London Overground trains that run on the Lioness Line I believe so that would explain why the 378s wouldn't layer on the WCML

 

Would be nice for the ability to layer the 710 and 378 on each others route. As at one time the 378s did operate the DC lines out of Euston.

 

Pretty sure the class 378 runs on the Lioness Line aswell.

 

I'm planning to release a bunch of screenshots over the next couple of weeks on my social media channels:

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61568639972627
https://www.youtube.com/@IncredibleTrainsSimulation
https://www.instagram.com/incredibletrains/

 

The route is completely done by myself
DTG provides documentation, advice and the infrastructure to build and test the route for the different platforms, and their marketing platform.

 

What is it then open fields? Ok urban then if you'd rather, same applies.

 

Route so good people think a whole company did it.

 

Although I am very happy to see more London commuter rail addons in TSW, and I am relatively excited for this one, it is inexcusable that they cut off Clapham junction and richmond.

 

Urban, defo not central London.

 

I remember being very impressed with your screenshots here when you were trying out the editor for the first time! Welcome to the TSW family. I look forward to seeing more of this route

 

Fair play to a single developer creating this. Great job! My only major concern is how quiet Stratford is...unless a Greater Anglia route is in the pipeline.

 

Hahaha everyone saying cut the guy some slack, yes fair play for getting a route out but why don't these people actually research what people want from the game.
One of the well discussed things is cutting routes and the route lengths being too short.
Why are people going to pay out money for 12 miles of route which dont include end to end runs.
Like I say good on him for building a route as no doubt its an extremely complicated process but not sure how these developers justify it when the route already exists in its full state in a previous version of Train Sim.
Its going backwards not forwards.
If it's that difficult to create long routes which were available in TSC then what have DTG hoped to gain by bringing us TSW?
The majority dont want these short non end to end routes cutting out key parts of the line.
Just don't see the point in it at all.
This is the 5th installment of the game and yet we still hear that's its too much work or complicated to create long routes so whats the point of the sim if it's just bits of routes here and there.
We aren't talking about the whole ecml etc its a london suburban route with half of it cut out.
Daft.

 

Not for me personally, but if the 378 can layer elsewhere I'd buy it for that.

 

Consoles

 

Whatever makes you happy. Deffo London.

 

What layers will it have and also assume you have ambitions plans for next route after. Love supporting new devs

 

TSC is inaccessible to the console market.

 

Consoles don't have an impact on route length

 

Shouldn't have even been considered for console, glad I've got a pc and can benefit from the 3rd parties being able to improve the rubbish keep being put out by official developers.
Its not just tsw but a lot of other sims as well, always seems to need add ons and 3rd party improvements to improve the base game, why can't these developers just bring out something decent from the start.
All the console players moaning about the game but given the history of the TSW why you'd even contemplate buying it on console and relying on just official updates is a weird one for me.
I know pcs are expensive and people don't want to miss out but the games always seems to come out with a half hearted effort and people are forced to wait for official updates to fix things.
JT have just released a great route by all accounts of what 100 miles? Yet here we are discussing 10 or so miles of a route and the reason is because it's 1 person?
Sorry but I can't see this being a big seller.

 

Just as well imo

 

I agree, I also don't really understand why people have to come on this thread to say they are not going to buy it, that's a bit weird. Just ignore the thread and move along I say.
How do you think this guy who has not only developed a route in LONDON and for anyone splitting hairs it is definitely in a very built up and busy environment which applies to anywhere in Greater London, single handedly which he started as a passion project, feels?
On top of that we are getting a brand new Class 378 to boot.
All of this to be greeted by a some moans about it not being long enough.as if it's being built by a team at DTG. Support the guy and we might get it extended like FC.

 

An extra 5 miles on a route of 12 miles is a large percentage of additional work.