London To Brighton - Make Use Of All Available Dlc

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by londonmidland, May 25, 2021.

  1. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    In the latest article about Riesa Dresden, DTG state “...but you can also enhance your experience with other DLC from your collection. We are currently planning for everything, it’s how we approach every DLC….There are going to be large portions of services compared to what we have done before.”

    This made me wonder, why not take advantage of extra AI services, which people already own via DLC?

    The Southeastern services are intended to only be AI services, which will go into a portal, however it’ll make London Victoria feel so much more busier and alive.

    One of the main areas of interest is London Victoria. The station is split up into two side. You’ve got the ‘Southern’ side and ‘Southeastern’ side.

    The Southeastern side is occupied by Class 375s and 465s. Some users own this DLC, so could a layer system perhaps be created for those players that own the DLC, to take advantage of the extra AI?

    The other, smaller area of interest, is Redhill Station. This sees GWR 166s, which we could drive from Redhill to Gatwick and vice versa.

    Approach to London Victoria:
    EA94DF31-3C20-4BBE-AC80-90DC217C3132.jpeg

    GWR 166 at Redhill:
    upload_2021-5-25_19-10-6.jpeg
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
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  2. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    The turbos actually run down to Gatwick Airport, so more than just scenery.
     
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  3. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Even better. This could provide us with some extra drivable services.
     
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  4. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Great idea, but I fear that this will be a Pay Per View option, with a "Legends of the Brighton Main Line" Pack, for £17.99 - as a special (optional extra) price for UK players, or people interested in UK outline content.

    However - if we give the stations some German sounding names, then I reckon they will throw it all in (including a few kitchen sinks) for free. The line-up of traction that you can drive on HHL is amazing, plus they have further AI like the DB BR 363 busying itself in the yards.

    ... how hard would it have been to let the 08 and 09 free on some of the other UK routes, at least as AI...?
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
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  5. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    synthetic.angel I don’t expect people that DON’T own the DLC for the AI services to have it included with the route, however it would be nice for DTG to create a layer system for this route. This will enable people that DO own these DLCs to take advantage of these extra AI service.
     
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  6. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I know. I didn't expect people that didn't own the WSR Class 52 to get a free Class 52 layer for GWE either. But I did expect existing owners of the Class 52, the Class 08, the Class 101, the Class 47 and the Class 31 to get the GWE layer for free, because anyone that owned these locos would have already invested quite a lot in TSW for these loco DLCs..... plus NTP, TVL and WSR as well.

    For me it was hyper cynical to liberate the already paid for (and very use-limited) Class 52 through a further paid Class 52 DLC that just really included services (and a livery) - when every single German route DLC comes stacked with loads of services for nearly every other previous bit of rolling stock, plus alternative liveries.

    For people that didn't own the Class 52 - fair enough - a paid for GWE Class 52 DLC seems fine (in which case they should have got the WSR Class 52 unlocked, for free).

    NB: I don't expect everything for free - but the Diesel Legends pack could have been a good will upgrade, I dunno, like the massive new set of services that has been granted to Rapid Transit.... for free.
     
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  7. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Thing is, the first time the layering system was used in a UK route in any significant capacity was DLGW, where it was (and still is) branded as 'hidden costs' and 'this add-on really costs over £100 to work properly', so I wouldn't be too surprised if they are hesitant to do it in a significant capacity again. People were however seemingly happy when they used ECW for freight on Southeastern - maybe because it was only one add-on?

    Pretty difficult given there's nowhere they could realistically go outside of their home routes and DLGW. They are still around, but outside of heritage lines, are not in BR Blue or BR Green livery.

    It'd be nice to see, and I'd argue is borderline necessary for SE trains in Victoria (but given the fallout of DLGW's layers, I wouldn't expect the 465).
     
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  8. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    Great approach to development. Sadly, it’s not going to be the developers that decide what will be included in the finished product but, rightly or wrongly, the bean counters.

    In this case, with three routes included in the base release, it would probably make sense from a business point of view, to have a separate DLC release containing additional trains and services.
     
  9. guardupfront

    guardupfront Active Member

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    With this in mind and imagining that they're going to be collecting all possible source data, is there someone/somewhere to directly send photos, documents and traction information that might come in handy within that repository?
    The 700 and 707 are near identical and so it cannot hurt for DTG to have a Desiro City information pack from myself or a fellow traincrew member just incase.
     
  10. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    The latest article state "Even if we don’t have the stock required, we put everything in planning so that if we do decide to create the DLC for the rolling stock we have all of that information to hand."

    This is good news for any potential future DLC for the line, such as the Class 700.
     
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  11. guardupfront

    guardupfront Active Member

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    Thats what I’m hoping for! But won’t get too ahead of myself - it’d be an autumn release at the very earliest if it was so!
     
  12. Jalio

    Jalio Active Member

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    This sounds like a great idea/plan to me. Hopefully this is noted and added.
     
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  13. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    This is a brilliant idea, I'm not sure how easy it is to implement but given they're doing it for the German route, then I'd like to think the Brighton Main Line would should get the same treatment.

    Honestly, if they really want a Rush Hour feel then this would be a big step towards achieving that.

    Southern
    Gatwick Express
    Southeastern
    Great Western Railway

    Yes please :)

    Plus any freight we can get on there too (im not sure how much runs on the BML?)
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2021
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  14. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    The SE side of Victoria is pretty much independent of the Southern side so there should be no conflicting moves. This means that they can add portal traffic without it affecting timetable mode.

    As seen below in the track and signalling diagram of London Victoria, Southeastern use platform 1-8 and Southern use platforms 9-19. There’s a clear split between the two lines so we shouldn’t have an issue with conflicting trains.

    75027246-8DB5-457B-B5EE-54D93ADA8110.jpeg
     
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  15. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Grosvenor Road Depot, located right outside London Victoria station, is home to light maintenance of the Class 375s and 465s, as seen in the picture below. The Southern services run on the tracks to the right of the 465.

    So this location is literally unavoidable, as you drive right by it. It would be a real shame if DTG left this depot empty.

    upload_2021-5-26_10-7-11.jpeg
     
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  16. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Just checked on this because from memory platform 8 is removed from platform 7...
    [​IMG]

    And a search of RTT shows that there are occasional SE and SN movements onto P8, so this may well have some shared approach.
    https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/images/content/Victoria Station Map 2021-1.jpg
    Look at 5Y62/5Y41 and 2K22
    Other than that the remainder of the platforms ARE exclusive

    One other thing to remember is that there are sidings just away from the Southern side of the station as well... Not sure how much they're used though
     
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  17. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea, and if it is possible to implement without making performance unacceptable I'm all for it.
    But if the Munich area in HMA with it's relatively low density of AI services is any indication, filling Victoria/Clapham Junction with anything resembling realistic density of traffic would probably melt most computers :D
     
  18. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    That is my point. The "pay a second/third time" DLGW layer-mod could have been invisible (but free) to anyone that didn't already have the other £100 of DLC.... but anyone that did invest that extra £100 could have been thrown a tiny bone, with a few services on GWE for the WSR Class 52, and some substitutions for the TVL and NTP traction. The German routes are always supplied with a banquet of substitutions (and alternative services) options, for anyone that has built up a collection of previous DLC, and supported DTG with a significant chunk of cash. And now older German DLCs, like RT, are being retro-fitted with even more options, for free. (which is fabulous)

    Maybe they could introduce a wholly inter-changeable tool to Timetable Mode, allowing you to subsitute any loco DLC into any Timetable services...... called "Off the Rails", for anyone worried about the content not being absolutely prototypical for the time period represented....? Although a Class 101 could probably not keep up with a Class 166 timetabled service.... it would be interesting to see the effect on keeping time.

    Well, if today I took a northbound Bakerloo train, on the open section, and saw an EWS Class 66, or a BR Blue Class 08 in the sidings on the WCML, I seriously wouldn't think "Oh ny gosh - that looks out of place....!". But what does look out of place is a completely barren section of track.

    So I think londonmidland is right - we need some more rolling stock, at least as static scenery (but preferably as AI.... or even as services you can drive).... on the new London/Brighton route.
     
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  19. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    DLGW does make use of the NTP Class 47, though. It also makes use of the Class 31 DLC for TVL and the Class 08 from TVL substitutes with the 08 from the DLGW pack. The WSR 52 would be wrong to be used in DLGW as it's a preserved version of the loco.

    I would, and I think quite a few other people would (see DLGW reaction when the first screenshots were released). It would've been nice to see freight wagons in Willesden yard on Bakerloo for those who own GWE though. I wonder if they decided to make the track not used by Bakerloo trains just scenery and not useable at all.
     
  20. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    From memory those lines don't show on the route map, so scenery it is
     
  21. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Yes - I know it does. But only if you pay again to use it. And in the case of the Class 08 and the Class 101, you pay again for a third time (if you have NTP, the NTP freight pack and TVL).

    That's the problem with the Legendary timetable/service mod for GWE - you have to pay for it. And you have to pay for it on top of the £100 that people will have already paid for TVL, the Class 31, NTP, NTP freight pack, WSR, and the WSR Class 52.

    But you don't have to pay again for similar timetable/service mods with HRR, HLL, RT, MSB, etc.....
     
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  22. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    So I already own NTP, TVL, The BR HEavy Freight and the Class 31. The way I'm reading your post is if I buy DLGW, I have to buy NTP, TVL, Heavy Freight and the 31 again, even though i already own them. Is that correct?
     
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  23. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I bet you are dying for the Brighton Mainline article now.
     
  24. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    No - that is not correct. What I am saying is:

    - If you already own NTP, TVL, The BR Heavy Freight and the Class 31 (and the Class 52).... and you want to use the rolling stock that you have already paid for....... and use it on GWE....... then you have to pay again by purchasing the Legendary GWE timetable mod (for £15).

    So - you would have already spent about £100 on many DLCs (including £12 for the Class 52), but if you want to use them (in timetabled services) on a Train Sim World base route (GWE), then you have to pay again.

    But - if you have spent €100 on many German loco DLCs, then you can use them all (pretty much) for free on HHL, without any extra payment for a modified timetable. And some of those locos come with alternate liveries. There is no €15 extra payment to get extra services in RT, HRR, MSB... etc. It's just free.

    On GWE.... it's an extra £15.

    Extra services are supplied for free on German DLC routes.

    ..... but more money has to be paid for extra services on the UK route.

    But free on the German routes.

    .............but extra cash must be supplied for using the UK route.

    -----------------------------------------

    Extra German content = Free of Charge

    Extra UK content = Penalty Payments
     
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  25. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    The difference is the DLGW pack comes bundled with trains (which includes a different livery for the 52 that wasn't included in the 52 DLC, as well as some small changes to all the locos to allow different destinations on the 101 and livery designer for all of them) PLUS a timetable, which is why you pay for it - if it was just a timetable then I'd agree. I've seen you mention the recent Rapid Transit timetable change, which was just a new timetable - in fact you need to buy the BR182 to get anything meaningful out of it, even after the change to allow the talent 2 to be used on select S2 services.

    Now, let's bring up Southeastern. If I own East Coastway, then I get freight services on SEHS free of charge which is how the german routes work.
     
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  26. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Nope. Your stated examples use the other route's copies of locos. You need to own those other routes to use them. With the legends pack you only need the legends pack, as an example I don't own WSR and never will because 25mph would bore me rigid, but I can now run it on GWE because it came with the legends pack.

    May well suck for those who owned a version of it on WSR, but it's good for me because I don't
     
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  27. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. It’ll be good to see some WIP screenshots of the route.
     
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  28. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Adding the Southeastern services to London Victoria will add around 90+ services to see as AI portal traffic.

    A handful of them could perhaps be drivable to Victoria Grosvenor shed - it’s only 51 chains with a journey time of 6 minutes however this is similar for the GWE 166 depot moves, which are all included and are drivable.
     
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  29. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    The legends pack is good value if you don't own the other add-ons and even without it adds a complete new timetable, which for many is worth the money on its own. The blue class 52 looks very nice too and surely worth something. My gripe with the pack, is that it is totally unrealistic but if that doesn't bother you I would say it is good value for money.

    It would be good to see layers added to London to Brighton for the GWE class 166, it would add some variety. Some SE AI Electrostars at Victoria would be nice.
     
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  30. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    No it doesn't. It comes with a BLUE Class 52, which is great if you don't already own it in red for WSR, as a new TSW 2 player. But, of course, you still have to buy GWE. It doesn't come "bundled with trains". For anyone that already owns the Class 52, all you get is a livery and a timetable mod. For £15. £15 for BLUE.

    It comes bundled with permission to use the trains that you have already spent £100 on. Not the actual trains. If it came with copies of the Class 20, Class 31, Class 33, Class 37, Class 40, Class 45, Class 47... as a standalone product (for those that don't already own them), then fair enough. But it doesn't. You just get BLUE. For the Class 52.

    You are literally paying £15 for the colour blue. And - I actually think that they got this idea from Angry Joe - he gets really upset when content DLC comes repackaged in the colour blue - with a hefty charge for it

    £15.... for BLUE....!


    (NSFW)

    Okay - so - if you already own the BR 182, having invested the cash already - you get extra value - for free, with Rapid Transit. Great. They could have charged for the timetable - but they didn't. Why not...?

    NB: This will enhance future sales of the DB BR 182 - because it now has more value.

    Yes - that's what I want to see more of. That' s what I would have expected with the £15 GWE timetable mod .... but as an added value gesture, supplied for free. Not with a penalty charge of £15.

    £15. For BLUE.
     
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  31. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    OK, to prove your point. Uninstall WSR and then run the 52 on GWE using the legends pack
    If you've uninstalled WSR then from what you've said it should not run
    But then I can drive the 52 on GWE : DL and I don't even own WSR, so...

    I think there's a difference between a dozen or so extra services on a layer or exchange and 200 service timetable and additional assets in your GWE folder (even if they're copies from other routes)

    I think you're just a bit peeved at "paying out for what you've already got", when that's a perception rather than reality
     
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  32. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Yep. You are right. That is what I was saying. I agree with you 100% - you need to own TVL/NTP/etc.... if you want to use the rolling stock that came with those routes, that you have already paid for, on GWE (in the GWE timetable mod).

    And if they had provided the timetable mod for GWE free.... then in future, more people would buy the following for TSW 2:

    GWE (as a new player to TSW 2)
    TVL
    Class 31
    NTP
    NTP Freight Pack
    WSR
    Class 52
    Class 33 (maybe....)

    They could have boosted the sales of EIGHT (or more) DLCs in their back catalogue, by adding value to all of them, in one sweep - without charging extra for a mod to GWE, and the colour blue for the Class 52.

    That is what they do with the German DLC. It's a fabulous way to add value for almost zero cost (a non-zero cost, but...... almost zero cost). And with the German DLC - there is no extra charge.
     
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  33. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    I begrugingly bought the 182 yesterday, not because I think it now has more value, but because it's now effectively a requirement to get a descent timetable for rapid transit. They didn't charge for the Rapid Transit timetable because there's no extra trains being included in the update, be they reused or not.

    So the Steam store page is literally lying?
    upload_2021-5-26_15-26-18.png

    So if they were to provide the timetable for free and no locos, we'd have red 52s, green 33s, green and blue 47s, blue 40s and 31s, railfreight grey 37s, green HSTs and 166s and red 66s - so basically an anything goes rainbow timetable encompassing about 50 years of liveries in a timetable supposedly set in the 70s, which wasn't the point of DLGW. The point of DLGW was to provide a BR Blue era timetable for GWE.
     
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  34. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    That's not my point. I know you get the BLUE Class 52 as a standalone in the bundle with the GWE mod (and that you do not have to own WSR)... for £15. £15 for BLUE. You don't even get the RED one, when you pay £15 for BLUE (unless someone can tell me different....?).

    They could have done it differently. Not sold the GWE services mod as a standalone product, with a bit of BLUE. They could have enabled the content that you already owned, if you already owned it (and yes, that would mean having to own WSR for the Class 52), and done it as a value-adding exercise - and - I think it would have paid off as well.
     
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  35. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    You make it sound like writing a new timetable and reskinning the class 52 is a five minute job!

    The pack is unrealistic enough without adding extra layers like the class 33, which would not have appeared in green in the 1970's. Personally if I had the pack (if it actually came with a realistic DMU or realistically liveried for the period at least) I would not want to see the extra layers as they are not realistic. The class 45 was an extremely rare visitor to the Western Region London Division and it, the class 31 and class 47 would not have looked like they do in the sim whilst running alongside the class 52.

    I also don't think there is any evidence to suggest that anyone would purchase the NTP for example just because the GW "legends" pack has layers for it.

    If you like BR period routes you are likely to already own the NTP and TVL.

    It is certainly perfectly good value at £15 if you don't own the stock and if you do you are still getting many hours of game play plus a reskinned class 52.
     
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  36. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I think that this is a great idea. But.... enabling you to see this AI would involve a non-zero amount of work, time and effort. Really it is an "AI Enhancement Pack Add-On". So - the question then becomes.....:

    How much are you prepared to pay for this feature to be added on to the London/Brighton DLC, on top of the cost of the DLC itself? £10? £45? £17.99?

    Also.... maybe new rolling stock (in future) could come with a default set of extremely low quality sounds (like the Class 89 in TS2012). We could then see a new product launched by DTG in TSW 2 called "Audio Enhancement Packs", and they could cost, say, an extra £5.99 for each bit of rolling stock....?

    You would not have to buy the AI Enhancement Packs or the Audio Enhancement Packs if you didn't want to. But they would be made available for sale immediately, if you did want good quality audio, and if you wanted to see more trains.

    Just an idea - just thought I'd float it out there - could be a great opportunity to make a bit more cash.
     
  37. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Nothing, because it's a few services the pose simply as decoration. DLGW is far more than that.

    The Class 89 is a pretty weak example given there'd be no way for them to get actual sounds for the 89 as it's not operational. Also, if DTG provided sound packs for their products, they'd be hounded to oblivion (although it's fine if AP do it). Also, that's not going to happen soon anyway IMO.
     
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  38. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Wow - seriously? You begrudgingly bought the 182. Buying the 182 makes Rapid Transit have a decent timetable for you. Without the 182 it doesn't (presumably) have a decent timetable for you. So, the RT timetable has moved from "not decent" to "decent" by buying the 182 - and you do not consider that change as being literally an example of added value for RT being added by you purchasing another DLC - the 182?

    Although you go much much further and call the (optional) added value a "requirement", which it isn't......

    Okay. I am not sure I can say anything to that. Good. Right, Okay. Yes. Good. Glad it all makes sense. Thanks. Useful to know. etc.
     
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  39. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    The majority of SE AI services are non-drivable portal services. Only a handful we will be able to drive, for less than a mile. I don’t think this would take much effort at all to add in, seeing as for the majority it is completely independent of the Southern lines and services.

    Therefore, I wouldn’t expect to pay any extra for it, or to buy it as a future DLC pack. You really can’t compare GWB to this.
     
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  40. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    They could have synthesised the sound for the Class 89. This often actually sounds better than the real thing.

    But - actually - Enhancement Packs could be the way to go for TSW 2, to raise more money (whatever that does to good will in the community's player base). We could have:

    - Timetable Enhancement packs (like DLGW);
    - Audio Enhancement packs (supplied by AP as a 2nd party dev);
    - Improved Weather packs (supplied by AP as a 2nd party dev);
    - Track packs (supplied by AP as a 2nd party dev);
    - Lighting packs (for those that want to have a light source on the front of all trains);
    - Versions of DLCs that are not optimised and have poor FPS as standard..... but Enhanced Performance versions where they do a bit of "extra work", but you have to pay for the performance improvement; and, my all-time favourite.....

    - Bug Patch packs........

    And as the main marketing guy said in the launch stream for the GWE timetable pack... "Don't Buy It....!" if you don't want it.....

    And you might think that this is all just made up (especially the last bit). But....

    ......people are prepared to pay extra cash for vicious bugs to be fixed. A number of TSW 2020 players actually created a group to collect donations to fund the patching of the Cement Circle bug for the Class 31 DLC. Some were prepared to pay $20 (each) to get it fixed. For one bug - which DTG were obliged to fix anyway.

    People are prepared to pay more for their broken or feature-lacking product to be made properly - and as a company that sells things, that is really difficult to unlearn.

    Maybe this is the future for TSW 2. And it all started with the legendary and iconic Diesel Legends of the Great Western timetable pack, with added BLUE.

    But I hope that the result of this thread is that we (those that have bought all or most UK DLCs) get some recognition and thanks, and that we get (for free) some lovely AI, to enhance the London/Brighton experience. In TS2012 you can actually get AI of rolling stock that you don't own appear on routes (for free), but you can't drive them. So you should get them now if you do own them.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2021
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  41. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    You wouldn't. Others would be anywhere from annoyed to outraged.

    Germany is different, because DB runs everywhere, mostly with the same rolling stock. Even the US with 5 Class I freight railroads at least uses the same rolling stock pretty much throughout. But in the UK post-privatization, every TOC franchise is different in both rolling stock and liveries, and I think you are rather in the minority, at not taking exception to seeing a BR Green Class 52 running on Cathcart Circle or an HST on the East Coastway.
     
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  42. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Or they could do the Class 171 ! We need more 2nd Gen DMUs
     
  43. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    The 171 runs from London Bridge, not Victoria. So you wouldn’t be able to drive any of these services.

    DTG won’t make a new piece of DLC solely for AI purposes. They’ll only add existing stock to new routes. New trains will be the ones you can physically drive.

    For the 171 they’ll have to make a route out of London Bridge to Uckfield, for example.
     
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  44. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Oh I didn’t realise that. Such a shame
     
  45. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    On a slightly unrelated note, could you (DTG) please utilise the current assets you have correctly?

    On SEHS, there were NO LED station lights which were used, despite the asset being available.

    I believe most, if not all Southern stations now have LED lighting. You have the asset, as it was used in ECW at a few stations. Please don't use the older incandescent lighting, as you did on SEHS.

    [​IMG]
     
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  46. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    Another excellent thread by londonmidland. I have been thinking about this ever since London-Brighton was announced and I pray that DTG do not waste the massive potential of the route by only including the 377 and 387 with no extra layers. Southeastern services at Victoria would be so cool, as would GWR 166's at Redhill and the odd Class 66 trundling up and down. Although, based on their track record on this I am trying not to get my hopes up.

    There does seem to be a general reluctance to have layers on modern UK (and US) routes considering it was only after the community was up in arms that they added them to SEHS; but I hope they prove us all wrong with this one.
     
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  47. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    This is the perfect opportunity to add the SE AI traffic as it will barely interfere with the Southern services. So it'll make little to no changes operation wise, with or without. Therefore, it should be a relatively straightforward process to add the SE AI in.

    The GWR 166 would also allow for extra journeys and more variety, as we will be able to drive these services between Redhill and Gatwick Airport.
     
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  48. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Their track record... on SEHS you have railtours and I often pass 66s on the freight loop at Sittingbourne so fingers crossed
     
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  49. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    They also had a railtour on East Coastway, and extensive use of the layering system in DLGW (including using loco DLCs for the first time beyond substitution).
     
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  50. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Having thoroughly enjoyed the TS version of this route, I'm really looking forward to the TSW2 version. It was one of the earliest TS routes and was really well modeled. I played it to death, so I'm more familiar with this route than most other UK routes, and I have high expectations for the TSW2 version. I'm almost as excited for LB as for the BP route. I hope at some point we might see things like "slam door" train sets and the old " Brighton Belle" .
     
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