Dovetail Games Mattel’s Thomas & Friends™ Is Coming To Train Sim World!

Er... Time for a serious rethink on that one!

 

Oh my wheels and coupling rods. I think that it will be a disaster if Thomas and Bertie don’t have a race or Mrs Kindly doesn’t get stuck in her cottage at Christmas in the snow. Oh, and we need Welsh coal for Gordon.

 

Well, I don't much care for it and think the development time would have been better spent elsewhere.

That said, the elephant in the room for me is steam physics. Does this mean DTG will address them again? (Doubtful, but one can hope).

That would certainly be good news.

 

This whole DLC is just a mess of massively misreading what the community actually wants, seeing the green from Mattel and following it regardless of what the community says, and major miscommunications that lead to it being far, far overhyped for what it actually is. It's not a single issue that's causing the outrage, It's all of those factors just coming together and melting into this already overboiling pot of rage and dissatisfaction to turn it to overdrive, but being expressed by the whole extremely poorly and incoherently, so it just seems like outrage with pitchforks rather than any constructive feedback.

Personally, I like the concept, it is cute, and fun, and under the surface I truly like it and will probably buy it, but the issue is that it was marketed as this huge end to a three week reveal - in a simulator that was only hanging on by a thread to even be called a "simulator" in regards to simulation fidelity and realism - that's still full of extremely pressing obvious bugs that have yet to be addressed. This should have been a side project, reserved for when the game is in a "completed", stable state (or even just the WSR route being in that state), but instead its marketed as a main DLC and being released *now*. The controversy would be far, far less if they actually had worked on the game a bit more, or at least announced this Thomas DLC alongside a comprehensive update package from the beginning, something to please both sides of the community.

The reason that the conceptually similar Christmas "train set" DLC didn't get controversy this bad is because it included groundbreaking experimental features like a drivable Jeep, the first working elevators, on top of being a rehash of an already existing TS1 route that was already viewed favorably by everyone in the community. That route at least brought something to the table that benefitted the rest of the game while also being fun, and the community generally understood that, this DLC doesn't bring anything worthwhile to the table for the greater sim, outside of *even more* Thomas characters being added - which only adds fuel to this fire.

Not to mention that the Thomas community is BEYOND toxic, because its full of small children with their OCs who are now being validated after screaming "pls add Thomas to TSW" for years and years, being melded into the already extremely toxic wider train simulator community outside of their own little niche pocket. DTG already has a "division" of TSW that is geared toward a young audience, their Roblox game, which was supposed to kind of take the low-realism, arcade game things for a younger audience, and all of a sudden that is being sort of swept into the shadows, for what? DTG just happened to enter the perfect storm of pissing off their current player base, and pitting them against the existing people who actually like it, on top of adding in an infamously toxic young community.

So where do we go from here? I think DTG can move a few things around with their priorities, prioritizing things like the Dutch route and delaying the Thomas DLC, in that way you get the realism crowd satisfied that they'll get something realistic and new, and the Thomas crowd being satisfied that they'll get this unexpected Thomas surprise "eventually" (though, contractual obligations with Mattel could prevent this solution). Another solution would be to start a massive bug patch to be released alongside the DLC, starting with the most recent DLCs and actually taking community feedback on what the biggest issues are - big or small projects - and attaching this giant bug fix patch as a major part of the Thomas DLC.

 

Actually having read the article and the rest of the forum responses, there is a new loco but the real Thomas is based on a Southern Railway E2, so not really going to fit on any of the existing steam routes, even reskinned into grungy BR black and deployed in the yard on PFR or SoS.

Adding to my previous comments and echoing what others have said, the backlash would not have been quite so severe had this, 1. Not been billed as the big reveal and 2. Had been accompanied by an undertaking to revisit steam physics and steam traction in general.

 

Just because the game is rated PEGI 3 doesnt mean that it is for 3 year olds. All that means is that it is suitable for a 3 year old to play, not anything else. MSFS, ETS2, TSC, etc are also rated PEGI 3. For comparison, Fortnite, which is rated PEGI 12, is played primarily by kids.

 

I meant the Mattel Thomas set box

 

TSW is Thomas sim world now..This just keeps getting worse with the franchise

 

Well I don't hardly post on this forum, or on anything in general. But I just woke up a few minutes ago and the first thing I saw was that the big announcement that was hyped up by my favorite train simulator for about a month now was that Thomas the Train was going to be added to some route that I may or may not have. That is a feeling I usually don't get, so here I am. I will not say anything too stupid because you never know, this might be a joke. But honestly with the way things have been headed towards with all these spin-off games we got, it is clear that Dovetail is trying to broaden their scope, so here they are latching on to a very well known character. It is sad, but only natural. I believe this is not a joke. But there is still hope, no need to up and desert this game, I for one will remain faithful for now. Because imagine Thomas does attract all these people to the game like they think it will. More people equals more sales. More sales equals more profit, and if we are very lucky more profit might equal marginally cheaper prices. And remember the Santa Fe deal for Cajon Pass, that's coming soon and when it does it will mark the end of the US Freight Drought, and I'm super hyped about that as I only really care about trains in North America. And as for that, they did that survey a while back mainly asking if people care about US routes, so maybe they haven't forgotten their North American player base. And for all of you who are going to reply to this and say that we got MBTA and Metrolink recently: I'm sorry, nobody in their right mind wants to drive around some stupid lil purple train around Boston pulling 5 cars, and all that both Metrolinks are good for is the freight layers on the timetable. If you are Dovetail reading this, please forgive my opinions on commuter rail, and I will forgive y'all for hyping up Thomas the Train instead of something good lol. Merry Christmas to all of y'all, players and developers, and happy railfanning!

 

Disappointed is an understatement. This was not what I was expecting from the big "grand reveal." This really should have been released as its own title, not bundled into Train Sim World—emphasis on Sim. I get it from a business perspective; they want to convert younger players into simulator enthusiasts. But for those of us who already own the game, this just feels a bit insulting.

I play Train Sim World because I want a simulator with real-life trains and as much authenticity as possible. I understand that nobody is forcing me to buy the Thomas & Friends add-on, but seeing it come to Train Sim World 5 makes me look at the simulator differently. I’ve had TSW since day one, and while there’s always been a fair amount of negativity from Train Simulator Classic users, recently I’ve noticed some of those critics have started to show interest in Train Sim World. With today’s announcement, it feels like those same critics are going to look down on TSW again.

All in all, I’m just disappointed. A lot could have been done with the development time spent on this. Will this make Dovetail Games a lot of money? Yes. And that’s probably all that matters to them. But I just wish this had been its own standalone title, rather than being bundled into what I consider a simulator, not a game.

 

Amazing how after what has been a real joke, not because of the DLC per se, it is what it is, take it or leave it (I think I have a zip with Thomas and Sodor Island in my TSC archives), but the hype that was built around it creating a "potential difference" which causes lightning in nature and is also the base of a good joke - amazing to see how immediately you're creating your own hopes again. Steam physics will be addressed? No McFly- the TSW players are ok with it and wouldn't want exact steam simulation except for a few 1 percenters. A three notch Reverser (25-50-75) would suffice for TSW.

"One can hope" is what causes disappointment. One should open their eyes.

And of course JD will brand this as exciting (each DLC is exciting per se - that is PR and DTG is a PR machine.)

Hype is never good.

 

As a long term supporter of the franchise from the very early days even before Train simulator, I find this announcement extremely disappointing feeling Train Sim world is moving more toward a game rather than a simulator. A big mistake and it will alienate more of the base rather than helping the franchise.


Poor move in my opinion

*******
After reflecting on the announcement for a few moments - My original reaction was a bit harsh - It will not be a DLC I will ever buy - that being said - I am sure it will scratch someone else's itch and for those, I am sure it is a welcome addition. I do hope the the DLC is well made and meets those people's expectations.

 

Well, I don't much appreciate the way you're twisting my words. My post was tongue-in-cheek. I don't hope/expect steam physics will be addressed. That was the point I was making.

 

I have no idea why you feel the need to insult TSW players like this.

 

Personally I'm looking forward to this, it will be interesting to see what the story driven gameplay is like, as some of the more recent routes have had pretty good scenarios. The main focus of this game is, and always should be, accurately simulated trains doing accurately simulated timetables, but I found Holiday Express to be an enoyable diversion and have no doubt this will be too.

Having said that, someone somewhere at DTG either thinks that all engagement is a positive, or they have no idea who their core base are, because bigging this up for a month when it wasn't going to appeal to the vast majority of people already engaged with TSW was guaranteed to serve up a storm, and ending the year on such a sour note for most people here was really poor marketing.

 

It's an observation. How you perceive it is not my responsibility. Deal with different opinions.

Remember how the realistic Safety Systems on LIRR2 were largely dismissed, causing many players to not play it any more. TSW means keep it simple and playable for kids as well as seniors.

 

Whilst it's not something I'm interested in, I can't understand the amount of backlash it's getting as surely it's no different to something like Forza horizon which has dlcs for Lego and hot wheels cars?

 

I agree, the reveals past days is something enjoyed, also getting more details of ongoing projects and dlcs. Overall very interesting and a good alternative format to the roadmap.

To be honest i had to laugh after having a look on todays "big reveal" this must be some kind of very dark british humor .

Not disappointed at all because there are a lot of devs on board now making content for tsw, and there are quite a few dlcs im looking forward to. The cargo packs, cl20, and the new tsg route. Also pfälzische ludwigsbahn looks very interesting. Jt cl.86 of course..

Still asking me what was this "PR gag" about ?
Revenge for the leakes, or the community being too harsh sometimes? Or the moaning?
Maybe everybody is too focused on hypes instead of enjoying the many good routes we already have.

Who knows whats behind..., but this thread became a really unexpected popcorn stage, exactly my type of humor.

 

Ah look, yet another post where someone is assuming they know what percentage of the player base wants this or that based on their own flawed biases and opinion.

 

Forza offers everything you would want, so it was an addition (and very well done). It doesn't have an army of disgruntled players waiting for their broken DLC to be fixed or more variety than another 47, 66 or 20 to be added.

 

I am assuming DTG know it, hence you get what they feel people want. It's not that hard to understand. What I think is irrelevant, what DTG release is all that matters.

 

I'm sure Forza fans could reel off a bunch of complaints with FH4!

 

Hopefully percy comes soon

 

Don't want to argue with you, but I certainly haven't hit a single bug in this game. And the amount of cars available is crazy. The code itself is hailed as a textbook example how to efficiently use the hardware, it looks and performs amazing even on lower range PC.

I think you're just shooting before thinking, Tom.

 

People want it. SoS selling very well tells us this. This is why your opinion is flawed in my opinion. If DTG can put the time in and have the will, steam can be a successful and integral part of the sim.

 

I can't think of anything right now. But that was your great Christmas surprise? As a free gift, okay, maybe, but like that. I'm disappointed, like probably so many people.

 

IF



... is usually followed by ELSE in code

Expect what you want, I already had faced massive backlash (I can deal with no worries) for trying to open people's eyes in the MML "seed for a network" debacle.

Anyone is free to hope and believe in what they want. I am free to voice my opinion to keep your steam physics expectation low.

 

I'm 58 today! I don't think I will bother with this one!!!!!!!

 

Happy Birthday

 

As much I wanted a LB&SCR locomotive I would've preferred a Terrier

Apparently the LB&SCR E2 wasn't actually that "Useful" anyway and they were all scrapped by 1963. They apparently had a rough ride at speed and their small coal bunker wasn't much use. Apparently they were used as shunters fairly well in Southampton docks until diesels came along.

 

Ha ha ha
Ho ho ho
He he he

...

Holy **** you're serious

 

My lawyer advised me to not comment this to avoid my account being banned.

 

They have…down the under 10’s route lol

 

The completely unexpected Thomas reveal was good for a genuine laugh; props to DTG for going outside the box and delivering a proper surprise.

Also good for a laugh, though a sadder one, was going through five pages (so far) of people acting as if this is a mandatory play with a cost automatically deducted from one's bank account rather than a completely optional DLC that one can choose to buy or not; that DTG has said repeatedly that route development and bug fixing are handled by different teams and the former doesn't take away from the latter; and accusing DTG of misreading what the community wants, when it's actually the forum community constantly misreading the size and importance of its segment of the larger community.

No idea if I'll buy it or not (Thomas was well after my childhood, so I have no attachment), no idea if the "story-driven gameplay" will work as well as hoped, or if DTG will stick with this for any length of time, but I like that they're trying something different and hope they continue to do so.

 

I mentioned this the Discord….almost everything ‘revealed’ had already been shown on the roadmap in one form or another. Anyway, a company that doesn’t listen to its customers ultimately goes down the pan. DTG are already sliding….

 

I totally get where you're coming from, it's just disappointing that the "big reveal" they were hyping up is just something most/all of the people who actively follow the game have zero interest in.

 

This. Plus the fact dev time has been poured into this by staff who *do* have the skill to fix up existing routes and rolling stock that have issues, or work on projects that have been ssuggested.

Imagine if the time taken to create the E2 tank engine had been directed towards a Jinty or BR Standard tank for PFR and SoS, instead of this... enterprise.

 

It's not even going to have proper steam simulation apparently

 

DTG will never reveal if it was a success or a total flop. They’ll no doubt spout the usual diatribe when it comes to dlc. Matt, JD & Alex will always tow the company line but I would be interested if they are totally convinced personally - I expect the EP is however!

 

You seem to be oblivious to the well known Free Starter Pack for TSW5.

 

DTG made a big mistake advertising this for a month as some "Grand Reveal", if it was just announced with no hype/speculation surrounding it it would have been so much better received. The Holiday Express was a fun little bonus for Christmas and wasn't hyped up so it was received well.

I think why some people are upset is that because for one you got the new Ludwigsbahn route with no new rolling stock, taken the sideline to Thomas no doubt and two we have been asking for years to fix the steam simulation and when we finally get some new Steam content it's not something amazing it's just Thomas.

For Kids I can totally see the appeal but wouldn't this be far better suited for the Roblox game? I hope resources aren't being pulled away to work on content like this, no doubt this won't be the only Thomas content we see as it's a multi-year partnership.

 

So I'm guessing there's gonna be versions of the trains without the faces right?

 

You guys do realize it's Thomas the Tank Engine's 80th anniversary next year, right? It was probably Mattel idea, not Dovetail. I think a spinoff game with Thomas would have been better. All I wanted was a new steam engine, and we got one.

 

Looks like they did. Big fail on product timing, but some people will like it.
But seriously folks - get a grip - buy it or don't buy it - and feel sorry for the real rail sim fans (not the suits) working at DTG who may feel their talents are wasted.

 

This is the big reveal you tried to hype us for the last weeks? This is the newest announcement for a !SIM! ?
Was expecting something of no interest but that's ridiculous. Could have brought this on April 1st and it would have been a great joke, but that as your last statement before Christmas? Hope you have something really exciting that you can reveal on Xmas to put this right.

 

To a brand new user, the Free Starter Pack is useless. They are almost guarenteed to have to purchase DLC later on, and you still have to pay money for the new core routes.

 

But you said it was a paid upgrade. It wasn't, unless you wanted something new.

It was still free.

 

Free to see the advanced simulation that has bogies extruding the loco body. People can see what they'll be getting, so not a bad thing.