Dovetail Games Mattel’s Thomas & Friends™ Is Coming To Train Sim World!

First time checking the forums since the announcement, but judging by these recent posts, the community response was pretty negative at first, but has now calmed down (kind of). The Twitter replies were pretty nasty, for what it’s worth.

I personally love it. The announcement was surely a bit surprising considering the 20th of December had been hyped for a few weeks, so many were expecting something much bigger than “just” a loco/gameplay pack. But if you think about it, this is a pretty big deal. Tons of players (or their kids) probably grew up with the franchise. It’s a great way to enjoy something different in TSW, while allowing kids to get interested in the franchise from a young age. Imagine how many railfans this will create. Reading the books or watching the show is great, but how about controlling the trains themselves?
Doing such a collaboration also gives TSW/DTG a lot of recognition/legitimacy and increases the overall attractiveness of a TSW appearance for e.g. a train operator, so we may see more licensing opportunities arising in the future because of this.

I watched the TV series quite a lot as a kid, and I even still have a train station with a few locos somewhere in a box in my basement. I’m probably not the target audience, but I may still pick the add-on up at some point if the story missions end up being really well done.

 

I have not been interested in Thomas the Tank Engine at all and never watched the show so I won't buy this. The reaction on here and other socials seems to show that most are not happy about this. As one user here pointed out, there were very few suggestions for Thomas to be in TSW. Hyping up a product that most didn't want or ask for is bound to draw backlash. It's also well known that most players don't want fictional content in TSW and DTG were aware of that. I think it goes to show that DTG can't read the room and does not listen to it's customers.

I can understand them trying to maybe get kids into TSW by introducing Thomas to the game, but is a 5 year old really going to be interested in this when other products exist especially long term? I feel like this is only going to appeal to a very small niche. I feel like this would've been better suited in TSW Tycoon. For a game that keeps advertising itself as an authentic simulator, customers are not going to want products like Thomas.

This leads me to wonder what direction does DTG want to take tsw in? It seems that TSW does not have a solid direction.

 

The key point to all this in my view is very, very simple.

the problem isn't that DTG are going down the Thomas the Tank Engine route (for what it's worth i don't agree with it and think it's a waste of valuable time and effort that should be better spent elsewhere.. but ultimately that's just my opinion, albeit one shared by a fair number of others on here)

The problem is this being the 'Big Reveal'. DTG knows it's core and targeted audience, and still decided to hype them up knowing this was the Big Reveal knowing practically nobody asked for this. That is the problem, not Thomas being a new DLC, but Thomas being hyped up for weeks on end to a target audience who would expect, quite frankly, literally anything else.

 

Yeah, but we’ll forgive you for that

 

I don’t think the analogy is quite on. Say rather that that last chocolste is a really big one, but it’s coconut- and you hate coconut

 

Heres another example: Say your boss tells you that you are going to get a massive payrise on a certain day, and on that day the payrise ends up being an extra £10 a month or something. You thought you might be getting 100-200 or whatever "massive" meant, but you got 10. The point is that it was hyped up for ages, and then ended up being disappointing. Thats what has happened with this DLC. It is not the DLC that is the primary problem here, though I do happen to have several issues with the DLC itself, its the fact that this announcement has been hyped up for weeks, many people thought that we were getting a Class 91 or something else highly requested, yet we got something that according to my research has been asked for a grand total of ONE time before this announcement. Many people defending this DLC seem to be forgetting that fact, being that LITERALLY nobody wanted or was asking for this. The past few days, we now have proved that Dovetail Games does not care what the community suggests. They will develop what they want, sometimes it works out well, more commonly, it gets released in an unadvertised paid alpha with issues that are highly unlikely to be fixed again.

 

See, I'll probably get it. It sounds like it could be fun.


But only once I actually install TSW5 (Or maybe TSW6) after it's confirmed that they've finally fixed the horribly distracting barber pole back to the circle timer in the full HUD the way Matt said it ought to be working. Otherwise I'll keep skipping TSW generations.

Absolutely does my head in. Led to me immediately uninstalling TSW5 after testing the free starter pack.

 

Asked for one time in this forum, maybe, but there's more ways people might have asked.

Might possibly be pedantic to point out that even if it were only one, that isn't literally none, but it is worth mentioning that not specifically asked for =/= not wanted. Thomas has a gigantic international audience. And limiting the pool of potential DLC to specific requests from the very small subset of 1) already existing players in the forum and 2) only those DTG is able to develop from 1), would starve the business in a hurry.

Hyperbole + ignoring inconvenient facts + inventing needed "facts" does not proof make, including that one, seeing as how ignoring customers is not how a business survives. Nor is only waiting for things to be suggested.

 

A marketing tie-in with one of the best known train-related international franchises with revenues of a billion pounds a year is basically a no-brainer.

Also, I was literally one of the people asking for it, though as an Isle of Sodor route, you can find it in my post history way back.

 

I'm not going to go wading through the 400 or so previous posts to see if anyone else has raised this point. I should hop so but just in case...

Thomas the Tank Engine and his world is the creation of the Rev. W. Awdrey. It is not Mattel's Thomas the Tank Engine any more than it is Walt Disney's Winnie the Pooh or The Jungle Book.

Clear? Good.

 

Technically only the original run of books, maybe even the original TV series were not Mattel's, I believe they have bought fully everything related to Thomas the Tank Engine and have created new characters of their own in recent years, so full creative IP rights and copyright states they own him and can call him their creation.......

 

I can think of 680,000,000 reasons ($) why it is Mattel's Thomas the Tank Engine, irrelevant of the long since dead (1997) original creators initial idea and story books.

 

for 680 million they can paint him pink and call him Tomaletta if they wanted.

 

Actually, it is. They own the rights to it all.

 

Exactly this. Speaking for me, if the 20th hasn't been announced as the Big Reveal, or if this DLC had been announced on one of the other days, my reaction would have been much more excited. But as a Big Reveal there should have been announced a route pack like Rush Hour, or a new core gameplay feature.
But as many of the reveals of the days before have just been updates on already known upcoming content, in other words, a roadmap stretched over three weeks (even that was much less than I expected from the Season of Reveals), this Big Reveal was the biggest disappointment

 

Don’t give the woke squad ideas

 

The season of reveals was mostly stuff we already know about from the roadmap apart from the Thomas thing. There's loads of ideas they (DTG) could have taken up from the suggestions page on the forum that would have been better received.

 

Yes, but large corporations are carrion eaters which swoop in the moment creatives die and love rehashing the things we love ad nauseam and making them worse with every iteration.

 

the late Rev W Awdry hasnt owned thomas since 1979!!!! that's when britt allcroft purchased it! since then it was owned by her company until the early 2000s and then ever since owned by hit entertainment which was a subsidiary of mattel.

it was never a business venture for him, he wrote the books for his children, and made a few bob publishing it and selling the rights on....if a large company hadnt bought it, it would have died a death in the 80s!

it wouldnt have pushed model railways as far as it has, so in my opinion a company buying it....was the best thing that happened to it!

its had its day but then HIT (who purchased gullane) decided to keep flogging it for cash.....but the american and japanese markets were still very strong for it!

mattell are trying to reboot it since especially in the uk since its demise on all preserved lines (except mid-hants) its largely unknown....this is a way by them of getting it out there...

Nobody is holding a gun to your head....if you dont like it dont buy it! as for resources....i doubt it took that long to concieve there isnt a lot to it...

 

That isn't absolutely true. Christopher Awdry still owns the Thomas books. What Allcroft > Gullane > HiT > Mattel own are the media adaptation rights.

 

He does not.

 

Source?

 

According to the Thomas the tank engine wiki:
On 25 April, 1998, Reed International sold their children's books division to Egmont UK and the copyright of The Railway Series to The Britt Allcroft Company for £13.5 million.[2][3] As a result, Christopher Awdry was unable to publish The Railway Series without the permission of the copyright holder, and the series were suspended.
So the copyright owner of the Railway Series is The Britt Allcroft Company or whatever its called now.

 

According to the Thomas Wiki:
On 25 April, 1998, Reed International sold their children's books division to Egmont UK and the copyright of The Railway Series to The Britt Allcroft Company for £13.5 million.[2][3] As a result, Christopher Awdry was unable to publish The Railway Series without the permission of the copyright holder, and the series were suspended.

 

Britt Allcroft Company > Gullane > Hit Entertainment >

 

Sprouts again, I can't get away from them

 

Someone beat me to it....but effectively it was sold lock stock and barrel to britt allcroft, and the awdry family lost all control of it, im sure i read somewhere that they were still paid royalties on it, but now its owned by mattel, they effectively tried to extract as much cash out of the brand as possible, targeting preserved railways mostly as more and more licensing costs and requirements made the whole thing (which was possibly the second biggest source of income for some lines) untenable going forward, as a result a large number of lines dropped it early on, followed by the remainder over the next 5 to 10 years...The only exception was the mid-hants who had written permission from Rev Awdry to create their own thomas, this was indeed tested when mattel took them to court and the the judgement found in favour of mid hants as mattels ownership didnt extend to areas the W awdry had granted prior to the sale to Britt Allcroft, the restriction is i dont think they can call it a day out with Thomas.

 

At least we've got a fifth steamer in TSW with this oncoming release. Hopefully they will also create the original E2 Class 0-6-0 which worked the LB&SCR around which was the original owner of the E2's.

The original engines ran mainly south and south-east of London (Kent, Brighton, Southampton, etc) engine to drive at the WSR, Peak Forrest and Spirit of Steam in BR Livery and the original. These worked on shunting duties at shunt and dock yards and early 60's replaced by the Class 07. Anyway, Thomas is nice for kids, though it would be better to have a TSW5 lite version for kids that includes the Thomas engine and all the narrated stories at Sodor Island and this "lite" version should also come with the F7 Christmas train.

If DTG releases this add-on a wider perspective on users is established (Siblings, Infants, Kids), but should not be part of the TSW5 as I noted before. This should be done so Kids have their own world respectively, but not interfering with the immersive TSW5 itself.

 

I did too! You can only drive Thomas in story mode. Waste of money

 

Yep, exactly.

Although this makes me wonder if you thought you were replying to the person I was replying to rather than to me.

 

So you're saying that instead of simply releasing a DLC nobody is under any obligation to purchase, which in no way modifies the extant game content, as an addon parents can get as a gateway for their kids into their hobby - DTG should release a separate full price game to the existing one this is built on, just for children and adults with fond childhood memories of these books and shows, which will require a bunch of additional dev time on maintaining it as a fork of the existing software, cutting into work on maintaining TSW5?

 

Why yes, I do believe that is what he is saying, in line with:

 

Something which jars on WSR is the lack of families. Commuter routes are ok, but not a heritage line.
They should sort this for Thomas et al, but more importantly, prevent AI pax getting on the tracks.
Someone's little darling doesn't want to run someone down driving Thomas.
Even more so someone putting it on social media.! Mattel will not be too impressed!

 

Since when

 

You don't have to buy it. Not like your experience will be impacted if you don't own it.

 

Doesn't make the product immune from criticism though. I see these comments all the time whenever some criticizes a product as a way to deflect criticism

 

Not saying criticism isn't allowed, it's always welcome as long as it's constructive.

But I can think of far more pressing issues to badger on about instead of this one DLC that affects literally nothing.

 

The few people who have the illusion that it’s losing value are those that can’t understand what a good marketing move this is, the same ones who think they have an exclusive hold on this game. The game doesn’t “belong” to us. It belongs to whoever is attracted to it. And if Thomas brings in some newbies that are attracted to it, that only helps give more life to the game. And in these tough economic times, it’s much needed.

 

But...but....it's a serious simming game for serious simmers.

I'm looking forward to it actually. Be a nice way to recreate my childhood.

 

I know this is totally meant for sarcastic value, but some of the elitist gatekeeping going on in this place is insane, roll on Thomas I say, just like you I'm going to go back to my childhood when I was reading my Thomas comics......

 

Reminds me of the perennial argument between some flight simmers as to whether (pick your flightsim of choice) is a serious sim or a game. In the vast majority of cases of course they're both. Both flightsim and trainsim need to bring new people into the genre, grow their market and make profits sustainably. Today's 'gamer' may well become tomorrow's 'simmer'.

 

Except one of the many problems of this pack is that it is a (probably) £15 DLC to a £20 DLC for a £30 (cheapest version) game. I find it hard to believe that a game for 5 year olds is going to have more than a few hours of gameplay, which for £60+ is quite a lot of money for a kids game for maybe 2-3 hours of gameplay, and people here don't seem to have mentioned this much at all.

This DLC should be its own £20 game based on TSW, not a DLC for a DLC for a £30 game. It will fail. Parents are not going to want to spend £60 for 3 hours of gameplay.

This time next year, when this DLC has failed, then the people currently defending it will be saying that it was the biggest mistake DTG has ever made.

 

Kids are expensive things. If parents don't spend money on this, they'd probably spend it on something which costs just as much, or more even.

This DLC won't fail. If anything, it'll lead to a bigger customer base and an increase in sales (maybe even for other DLC).

This one DLC ain't DTG's downfall, nor their biggest mistake.

For comparison, Rivet still produce DLCs and are presumably making money from it as theprhaven't stopped, despite their DLCs being amongst the worst.

By your logic, Rivet should've gone under years ago, yet they're still afloat. So I don't see how this DLC will be a fail and a mistake. If anything, it'll be forgotten about in a few months and everyone will be up in arms about something else.

 

Surely DTG will realize that this pack is a great chance to introduce a completely new audience to TSW and offer a TSW Core + WSR + Thomas “Starter Pack” priced at around 25€. Permanently reducing the price of WSR to around 20 bucks could also help enabling existing TSW players to access the Thomas gameplay.

 

You think a 5 year is capable of playing this game?

 

Or, if it succeeds as well as DTG hopes, the people attacking it will...still be saying that it was the biggest mistake DTG has ever made, because two "fictional" DLCs within 2-3 years is clearly the death knell for TSW's simhood. Heck, people are saying that now, just based on the announcement.

Wait a minute...

But...

???

 

Think of Holiday Express with a celebrity.

And all this discussion has made me wish that DTG had just posted the DLC without any announcement. I can only imagine the outrage then, but it would’ve been out in time for Christmas.

 

Or maybe, it'll be a success.

 

You are right, if Dovetail does what I have told them to do.