Metrolink San Bernardino Line Discussion Thread

That probably has to do with the criticisms of the OBB 4024 Talent 1 when they used inaccurate sounds which came from the Talent 2. The talent 1 doesn't sound like a Talent 2 but has similar sounds to a Class 377 ironically. If they can't get authentic sounds and use completely inaccurate sounds then the train shouldn't be made. That's not an unfair expectation to have especially when this game is advertised as a sim with authentic routes and trains from around the world. Train sounds are a key part of the simulation and immersion. Using completely wrong sounds just ruins it for me.

Also not everyone likes U.S freight routes.

 

I mean, the ES44C4 was decent, but older stock like the SD40-2 and AC4400CW really need updated sounds.

Maybe DTG should expand on the GEVO line instead of new locos for the time being.

 

Here in the US, we use PTC - positive train control. It oversees almost all safety items like track speed, signals, special restrictions, etc. One of the things it also governs is going over speed. PTC will automatically stop the train if you go over speed, which is 5mph above the posted track speed limit. It will start warning you at 3mph over speed.

You can read more about it here. Metrolink was actually the first agency to have it fully implemented in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control?wprov=sfti1#

 

ok... but the game doesnt really enforce it here, except showing you track speed limit in the HUD and such (it doesnt really beep or anything like on NEC ACSES and ATC do)... so... I guess I should just follow that?

I mean, I would kinda like to know stuff like approach speed when yellow and such, cos the game doesnt really force you to slow down much... so if the game doesnt, I would like to know, and make it more real myself

like, yeah, the switch for PTC is in the cab, but it doesnt really show much/do much, as far as I remember... I will watch some stuff and read some, so I can enjoy this better, cos the route and train are kinda nice

 

Green/clear - maximum authorized track speed.
Advanced approach/flashing yellow - maximum authorized track speed, prepared to slow down at the next signal
Approach diverging/double yellow - maximum authorized track speed, prepared to slow down to diverge at the next switch
Red over any aspect - you’re diverging at that signal/switch and should be going whatever the turnout/crossover speed is
Solid yellow- approach signal. DO NOT EXCEED 40mph, prepared to stop at the next signal
Red - pretty straight forward. STOP

These are just some basic descriptions of what the signals mean. Maybe I should make a separate thread with this stuff as well as additional information if that would be helpful to some people? Especially since now we have two Metrolink routes to follow these rules on.

 

maybe? as a good source of info... since the game doesnt force us to do stuff, lets make it more real with info like this

 

I would love a guide like that.
What signals mean.
When to use the horn.
When to use the bell/stop the bell.

 

Okay, give me a little bit and I’ll get a detailed post put together with useful information.

 

PTC is great. In Europe only LZB and ETCS and TVM are comparable.

 

I would prefer Tank Squad

Hi Matt. I think we should be a bit more open. It's better to have new american freight stuff even if we don't get the 100 % correct sounds and physics, instead of having no new american freight stuff for a very long time.

 

If anything, just supplement them with Passenger routes using existing models.

Like make a BNSF GP38-2 or GP40-2 for the upcoming San Bernadino route and have them work the Kaiser yard.

 

The question as to why PTC is not modeled in TSW was asked and answered when AVL was released:

 

I am also trying to check what systems are there to turn on in F125, and I found Alerter, PTC, TMS, ATS and thats it I believe?

 

I'm actually looking forward to this one more then the rest of the announced dlc.I think it's a great idea linking up the three routes.I wish they would start doing this with the existing UK routes.Any ideas of a release date?

 

It’s not physically linking up the the routes, it just links them in theory.

The same as RRO & RSN or BML & ECW ‘linking’ up.

 

I figured this was the case, but honestly they shouldn't be using "links to Cajon Pass" as part of the marketing if all it does is share a terminus.

It's a little bit misleading, imo, especially if you're not as familiar with how TSW works as people on this forum are

 

I can't imagine to drive the Metrolink MP36 around San Bernardino Freight Yard. And all you see is an empty yard. That would break each kind of immersion. And btw there are a lot industry yards at that route.

 

I’m not very familiar with the differences between PTC and ATC/ACSES but I always wondered if Dovetail implemented their existing version of ATC/ACSES onto Antelope Valley if it would be similar enough? Would it be better to give the player some version of a U.S. safety system rather than non at all?

 

I was surprised they brought it up, as you say to a wider audience it could easily be misinterpreted. However Matt did say you’d need to load into each route to travel the across them.

 

Since UP runs the San Gabriel Subdivision hopefully we can get some new UP Motive power such as UP ES44ACs

 

Kaiser Yard looks impressive. And DTG could easy use their existing BNSF ES44C4 there.

 

Yes UP Gevos are definitely missing in TSW.

 

It would be vastly different as both systems are indeed vastly different. They’re not similar. I’d rather have no PTC/other safety system over something ported in that’s completely fictional for that line/territory/railroad.

UP shares a very short like, 3 mile long section near El Monte/Baldwin Park. UP doesn’t run over the San Gabriel Sub at all in reality. The line is almost exclusively Metrolink with BNSF freight operations closer to San Bernardino. It’s a Metrolink owned subdivision and operation. Do not count on any UP DLC with this release.

 

How likely are we to get Kaiser Yard?

 

Without Kaiser it would completely unimmersive. Because it's directly on the route. And it's a relative big yard. But who knows.

 

If it's directly on the route, the track should be included at least then, even if rolling stock isn't.

 

Do you think it's likely that Cajon Pass will get an update regarding Metrolink AI traffic for San Bernardino? Same with the MP36PH for AVL, would be nice to see it complement the F125. As more locos come to TSW, would be nice to benefit and improve older routes where applicable.

 

If there were 3 UK/EU routes that were so close/connected and didn't get both playable (where possible) and AI layers this forum would lose its collective mind.

I hope the same is true here. DTG can and should make it happen.

 

To be fair, there's quite a few UK and German routes (both first and third-party) still completely missing appropriate playable/AI services, some good examples include:
- ECW: Still completely missing London services to/from Eastbourne/Ore; also ECW Brighton still doesn't have the 387 as AI traffic
- BML: Completely missing the Class 700
- E-G: No LNER Class 800 as AI at Waverley
- HRR/RRO/MSB etc: Completely missing ICE services

The lack of consistency regarding the resuse of existing rolling stock in TSW at times for this game is super frustrating. Older routes should be updated to reflect when newer rolling stock comes to TSW where logical. I mean TSW afterall is touted as a sim, so the more realistic and busier the traffic/route, the better!

 

The problem is that DTG doesn’t really do this sort of thing ‘officially’, anything including going back to a route needs someone capable & willing to do it - on their own time. Only then do DTG make a song & dance about it. It does give me the ick with how hard it is to get DTG to go back & implement improvements to older routes, yet they’re more than happy when their staff is happy to do it on their own time to take the praise that comes with it.

Ultimately I think it’s pretty sad that we are dependent on someone being invested enough to actually bring older content upto par & show off how good it can be.

Hopefully Fife comes out swinging with everything we have available & appropriate included from the get go. I doubt E2G will ever see the LNER stock.

 

For those interested, here's a detailed thread I put together with some more detailed information regarding Metrolink operations:

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...ngs-and-other-rules-useful-information.78699/

 

Im normally just a lurker on these forums but I have to say I appreciate Matt for actually being apart of the conversation here. I feel it's important to note there have been alot of things done right with US freight content Sherman Hill was fantastic with the SD70ACE and its sounds were perfect I thought that the ES44C4 was a great addition and everything else I'm gonna blame on it being older content in need of an update being a local to both the Sandpatch Grade and Horseshoe Curve they are some of my favorite routes but they need updates. My perspective is that I'd like to see what the dovetail survey alluded to with route expansions especially for US routes for example Sandpatch Grade would be a completely amazing new experience with a few simple things 1. Extend the end of the route another 27 miles to Connellsville where there is another large yard with lots of switching action (Almost all Keystone Subdivision trains change crews here) 2. Add a new locomotive possibly the ES44AH that opens up the opportunity for my next addition. 3. Add the new CSX heritage units. This will bring new life to what I feel is one of the best routes in TSW and it gives dovetail the option to sell two if not 3 new peaces of content the same can be done with HSC (extend to either Pittsburgh or Harrisburg Add SD70ACE and remaining heritage units) this could bring a bright future to US content. Make a core route with two locos as they have always done then extend them on either end to make them longer Add new locos and rolling stock you can turn one small route release into months of content with small expansion packs just my opinion and I'd be glad to supply reference material for anything that's local to me

 

Playing a bit more on AVL last night, the one thing I hope SBO (?) will give us is more of a straight thrash with the F125’s. Problem on AVL is the locos are so overpowered on lightweight trains, other than initial acceleration even going up a 2% grade you rarely need more than Notch 4. Not sure if that is the case IRL or the Simugraph setup needs a revisit to tame the performance a little bit. And from 6000 miles away I need to ask those who know, are the trains on the San B. Line longer than AVL?

 

I

agree with this also freight shouldnt be neglected just because sounds not 100/ percent correct there a lot of the passenger stuff where the sound not perfect ...Buuuutttt they keep doing tons of passenger stuff and give freight the shaft lately..maybe they should just change it to PTSW passenger train sim world ..

 

they need to do just this..why not do a BNSF skin for GP38 2 bring the GP40 2 back they had a CSX one in the NEC For train sim 2020 ..they should usewhat they already have licensed they Got CSX BNSF NS CN UP theres a plenty they could do freight wise no excuses

 

The issue is once again DTG just pumping out the same type of content in clusters. It was TSW 2 & 3 where freight was the focus.

 

like your ideas i agree sand patch being extended to connellsville be great plus helper locomotives are added to trains there that need them and it always was a crew change point crews ran connellsville to cumberland CSX did start longer crew runs some trains were made cumberland to new castle pa runs ..dont think HSC could be expanded to pittsburgh or harrisburg unfotunately due to distance conway yard is ns main facility for pittsburgh area and is approximately. 22 miles west of the city harrisburg is a fair distace from altoona also but adding SD70ace rest of the heritage scenarios timetables would help

 

maybe a small expansion of HSC that could add some interest extend from johnstown to con pitt junction have track 3 locally known as sang hollow extension tracks 1 and 2 are on the other side of the conemaugh river there is a huge coal fired power plant at huff also coal mine that power plant used to get some of its coal from also rail service to power plant ..services to these would also add playability

 

For me this is a net positive, I also hope that the racetrack will be present and modelled. Fontana is piece of american racing history, and having to choose between it, and a generic industrial park which being build in its place (or a demolition site), I really prefer the raceway.

It's also not like it doesn't fit current era, as it is just being demolished.

 

Yeah the gameplay on AVL is kind of like a freight route on easy mode. The fundamentals of running it are the same as a US freight route but it is much more forgiving because the train is light and powerful. That isn't intended as a knock on the route since its based on reality but I was thinking about that the other night, if someone wants to learn US freight but is overwhelmed on how to control the trains I'd probably tell them to try out AVL first.

 

for me what is keeping me from US freight is I dont really know how to set up a train with 2... I dont know how many locos there can be in-game... how to control them remotely, the brakes, how to set up that M4 - whatever valve...

 

Haha, yes. Welcome to what got me involved in this forum/community in the first place. In the TSW2 era firing up Sand Patch Grade, not being able to move a train, not finding any easy information or tutorials in the game, so heading online for player guides and forums. Eventually I got it all figured out until I could get freight trains up and down SPG with my eyes closed (after many failed runs stalling on the hill, blowing past stop points or signals, etc). That is what made me love this game despite the flaws.

What also doesn't help with figuring out US freight is that the setup process is different on all the different routes. Some require you to manually set up the pusher locomotives, others are set up correctly when you spawn in. Some require you to push the banking comm as the LAST step or it doesn't work, others require you to push the banking comm as the FIRST step or it doesn't work. Even after playing all of them for hundreds of hours I still need to give myself a refresher when I fire them up after a while.

AVL is MUCH simpler to get going.

 

I'm wondering if we will get the Metrolink Colton Maintenance Facility or if we will stay in CMF for those operations. (Also if any DTG devs see this I also have access to some stuff that can help with timetabling the BNSF and UP trains if needed)

 

The F125 is a very powerful locomotive, ESPECIALLY when you've only got 4 cars behind it. Power is added incrementally (one notch at a time) to avoid this thrashing you refer to. Moving the handle to full throttle from idle is not the proper way to do it and is actually not allowed at Metrolink. Going up the 2% grade in notch 4 is perfectly normal with only a 4 car train and an F125. There's nothing wrong there.

Metrolink trains are either 4, 5, or 6 cars long. A vast majority of the trains are 4 cars and many are 5 cars with 6 car trains fairly uncommon nowadays. That said, San Bernardino Line typically sees longer trains. A lot of trains are 5 cars long with a lot of 4 car trains as well and SBD Line is the line that often sees the uncommon 6 car trains. So running a long 6 car train on the route will be perfectly acceptable as is 5 and 4 cars.

 

Ive been frequenting Upland recently, I thought that I was gonna see very short sets but Metrolink is keeping full capacity for the most part, there was maybe two sets in rotation that had 4 cars and I think they came from the IEOC line. Everything else was 6 cars and I vaguely remember a 5 car set. Ridership is down but clearly not on the SB line.

 

There's currently less than 5- 6 car sets roaming around. They are not common anymore at all. They're generally used on weekends or for other special events. They will also fill in if necessary. You likely saw the same 6 car set multiple times. Because there's very few right now. The 4 and 5 car sets are the primary trainsets on the SB Line.

 

Maybe it was a blue moon then, I know the sets are the same when they come back but from the sets I was seeing it was mostly 5-6 cars (This was Friday rush hour.)

Im waiting to see if we get bike cars aswell and which of the 3 Bombardier liveries we will get (I doubt the 3rd one will exist considering they haven't even started in rotation yet.

 

This may have been mentioned but would the MP36 with this route fit on Boston Sprinter ? (assuming their is MBTA version in real life, and possible this loco could be changed to fit that)

 

The only major external difference I see on the MBTA version, is that they have a number board on the front next to the headlight.

Though I think the major problem with the MBTA ones is they only own 2 of them, and both are currently out of service for overhauls.

 

Freight layers will be available on here, they will confirm more in due course