Midland Mainline - Skyhook Feedback

If you don't have anything constructive to say, better to not comment at all.

 

Lets be real though, they are minor issues.
The DLC works and there is nothing really that prevents gameplay.
So yeah, I would argue anything after that is minor.

If it's 'immersion breaking' or unrealistic... it's still minor over the fact it works.

 

I've stated my issues with the dlc on its steam store page.
Excuse me for not like being mocked and expecting to get a sim product when I pay for one.

Had the entire map no foliage that wouldn't prevent gameplay either. A straight piece of track with the loco from the Christmas map would aslo provide gameplay. I know the one issue I mentioned isn't a big one -especially in comparison with others in MML- but this is why I felt the need to say something:
I came here to read some news filled with excitement, as I usually do, especially now that we are near the June Roadmap and I'm guessing the MML update, and again I'm terribly sorry, but it really saddened me to read that small issues like that won't be fixed (probably for another month or so) because, admittedly, they are minor in comparison with the deserted timetable for example. I'd imagine though that since they are indeed small, a fix for them would have been simple.

 

So you're saying that you don't appreciate any of the work skyhook have done and that all their efforts were for nothing? They have worked hard and endless hours to even create patch 1 in the first place. That alone is about 180 fixes, improvements and new additions. Be happy you even got an update.

 

Um are you talking about the interlock light above the door on the mk3s ?!?

 

No, the interlock light in the sprinter's cab

 

To be fair, though, Jane is saying they haven't made major improvements to the lighting (in this patch). Jane isn't saying the issue you see is a minor thing that you shouldn't be bothered by.

At least, that's how I read it.

 

jane-skyhook Good morning Jane I was wondering if you team where aware of the train lights on the Mark III's are very bright at night they are also bleeding in the cab of the 43

 

Thank you, you are correct. I appreciate you posting this.

Speaking generally to everyone here,

The team have worked without a break since release fixing issues and sorting content. There are only just so many hours in the day. The dev team have been full time on this and put in thousands of hours of work on fixes. That work is continuing unabated. If we could deal with every issue with the wave of a wand, I would be delighted. Unfortunately, patch 1 has taken an enormous amount of work, time and effort. Nothing has been ignored. I simply asked the team to work through the list in priority, starting with crash bugs, major gameplay issues etc. What has gone to publishing now is how far the team were able to achieve in the time given for this release.

I am really pleased with progress thus far. The team are now continuing with further updates and we are working through the list until all reported issues are resolved. I estimate looking at my sheet, there are a few thousand work hours clocked up since release, spread across a team of artists, programmers, technical designers and dev team QA. All of them working full time on this since release. It is laborious where one fix can take hours to resolve, check, double check and running past QA.

So myself and the producer made the call to deal with things that were the most serious at the head of the list. Work continues even when patch 1 is in all of your hands. No issue has been forgotten, no issue has been written off. It is simply the case that the entire dev team have devoted their entire working week to these fixes and updates since release and this is progress so far.

You are not going to see everything fixed yet. I have been honest about that expectation. What you will see is massive improvement, with more work on the way.

 

Jane said they would look at it and that there will be more than one patch which involved lighing, I don't see your problem frankly.

We should be glad she is here and responding to feedback and keeping us updated, however it is a surprise that developers do when they get treated with disdain by even a small minority.

 

I think the vast majority of us are pleased and are grateful you are here and listening to feedback and providing updates.

There will sadly always be a small minority though who can't help themselves.

 

I for one appreciate all the hard work you and and your team have done to improve this route and I can't wait until it's released. Thank you all.

 

I’ve personally not bought the route yet. I’m more into TSC at the moment. I just want to say that when patch 1 comes out, I’m inclined to buy it to support the level of effort and communication and to hopefully give the message that I really appreciate being kept informed of the work being done.

I have too many routes where I’ve reported gameplay affecting issues. At best I get an acknowledgment of it and then silence.

So to have a company openly making an effort to deliver improvements and communicating what they are doing, even if the initial route was not so good, is really nice to see.

PS As said before would be nice to see the DB BR 187 get the same treatment ;-)

 

I think Jane and her team deserve alot of praise she could of easily not communicated with people over the issues and fixed the route but she has listened to everyone's feedback and they've gone about fixing the issues for that I commend them well done skyhook

 

I'm sorry, but, while I'm very impressed, as are most of us, with the apparently huge effort that they have made to bring MML up to scratch, this love affair with SHG is veering a little OTT.

First of all, we have yet to see the update and what's in it. Let's reserve judgement until it shows up. Chances are very good that it will be everything we've been led to expect, but we've all seen updates in the past that have broken things or have been less than advertized, however well- intentioned.

Secondly, players have every right to pose questions and point out discrepancies in the route, however minor others may consider them. That's what the forum is about and, as I've said before, I personally am glad that we have some people who examine dlc with a microscope, because I don't have the time.

Like many others, I'm expecting to buy the route based on the " revised version " and I fully intend to do that. I don't expect everything to be fixed in this initial update and I'm sure people will be picking the route apart even after it arrives.

It's fine to support SHG in this effort and to commend them for their communication with the community.

But let's keep a sense of proportion and remember that SHG still have unfinished business with their older routes. They are not infallible.

 

So criticise them regardless and only praise them for their hard work in rectifying their mistakes when it suits you, Got it.

 

Of course players have the right to point out discrepancies, much of this is what Jane is acting on. However some of the comments on here have been less than edifying.

This is my first Skyhook product purchase for TSW but from what I have read I hope that they revisit their previous content, I am waiting to purchase the BR187 when it is at a more acceptable standard.

 

Roll on the Road Map, we will all be a lot wiser then……..I think, I hope, oh I don’t know!
Guess I’ll just have to wait and see.

 

I'm reasonably sure that's been dealt with in the upcoming patch. There was a post a while ago (probably a dozen pages back by now) listing lots of updates to the 158.

 

[QUOTE="Crosstie, post: 660120, member: 423"

But let's keep a sense of proportion and remember that SHG still have unfinished business with their older routes. They are not infallible.[/QUOTE]

Just a reminder that I only joined Skyhook at the tail end of MML development when I started posting here. So, I have yet to cast my eye over older routes and content. That said, it is very much on my mind to do so once myself and the team are happy with MML. I want to take a look through the catalogue and audit what we have for future action.

 

There are over 50 updates to the 158 that have gone in to the patch. I will check with Will, who has been leading the charge on the 158 if interlock lights are in there. I cannot thank Will enough for the enormous work and passion he has brought to the 158, making it something very special indeed!

 

I asked on you guys website and Jack downer said there is nothing to report atm stay tuned to our socials for any furture updates

 

Just letting you all know, we are putting some screenshots together as promised and I will be posting shortly!

 

We have addressed a significant number of instabilities and brought in many optimisations along the way. In some places, content was getting really tight on available memory budgets and pushing the content in to wobbly territory. There were some VERY large textures that had inadvertently gone in to the release build, which have now been toned down, to still look great to the eye whilst avoiding eating up available space. There was some other code related stuff too.

The short answer is that a lot of effort has been put in to stability across all platforms, with us profiling the entire route. I am not going to promise perfection, but we have certainly eliminated a lot of stability issues.

 

Thanks Jane. I’m still enjoying MML but it will be nice to have the updates. Looking forward to the release now.

 

I know it's been said before but I've got to just thank you Jane and your team for the dedication you have put into fixing this route to hopefully make it one of the best in game so far. To use the phrase correctly, (you watch I'll do it wrong now!) you've talked the talk and now lets see if you can walk the walk. Very much looking forward to what will happen in the future with Skyhook now too.

 

Problem is I think we're all a little used to being almost forgotten about when it comes to routes, fixes and general maintenance. Let's be honest there are multiple routes crying out for major reworks which have just been completely forgotten, cough spirit of steam cough. And the recent noticeable absence of anyone from DTG just further adds to that feeling of being taken for a ride

So when we see someone engaging with us, it does give us that hope that maybe change is a foot. Don't get me wrong I'm very hopeful for a MML, I just hope it's not disappointing

 

Wait is Skyhook Jane the same Jane that made Alien Vs Predator back in the day?

If so Skyhook made a great decision in hiring you, I have been a fan of your work for years.

And say hi to Adam for us as well. We miss him on the streams.

 

You nailed it pal. Excellent post.

 

If it was just the routes... most of the core problems seem just to be mindlessly repeated route after route and not even remotely on the to-do list.

 

Another bug, first time I’ve had this one just over 40 services on MML.

Info:

Weather: Custom, Clear
Month: 3rd June
Service: 1C22 (Sheffield) Derby - St Pancras

Issue: TPWS brake demand, Mountsorrel on the up Fast. My speed 95mph. Linespeed is 115mph

First time in playing over 40 services I’ve ever had this issue on the Up Fast, just on the TPWS grids at the points for exiting Mountsorrel.

 

that is so kind thank you Josh! I will pass on your regards to Adam too!

 

Are the 158 wipers in the patch to don't seem to work with weather very well

 

just refresh my memory...I thought this was due for release by the end of May? Its now 5th June. Yes its passed to anther silo within Skyhook like things do with DTG. With no one talking to each other. Those critical of criticism seem to accept that poor (unacceptable?) release quality is ok and that a solution is a favour. I am not one of those people given what I see as the high cost of releases: a loyt of money is made form this. The game is not called 'have fun with trains' but Train Sim World. The sim bit would suggest some degree of closeness to reality on release is reasonable or that the product should not be released. I honestly dont see this as an unreasonably expectation.

 

They said they hoped to have it released by the end of May but that it might require more time. Clearly you don't know how gane development works and haven't read through this entire thread where Jane has been actively interacting with the community and fixing mml. Things don't always go to plan and things can get delayed and there was a ton of work to do.

 

Key portion of that is "I thought"... if you thought a bit longer maybe they went over their programmed timeline and maybe fixed a few more issues than intended

I haven't seen this. I've seen people thanking Jane for her work on this post and skyhook generally for their fixing the issues (silent portion "that should have been done in the original release")
I don't think anyone truly believes that the product that was released was Skyhook's intended outcome. I believe it would be incredibly naive to think that the way the DLC were released earlier this year were not affected by changes going on elsewhere

Then speak to the people in control of the release schedule... that wouldn't be Skyhook in this instance

 

Morning, let me quickly address this please.

My hope was for a release at the end of May. I made the decision with the team that we wanted to address some further issues, so pushed out the patching process a few extra days. We delivered to publishing at the end of the month. This means that the patch is now in the release process and out of Skyhook hands.

The patch has not been passed to "another silo within Skyhook". That rather makes it sound like we are some mega developer with silos and major resources. Actually, my class at school had more people than the entire workforce, management and shareholders of Skyhook put together. We could all happily sit in one minibus for a ride to the beach (that sounds like a good idea today!). Skyhook is a small team and deliberately so, to maintain a close knit family feel. The core of Skyhook were a group of friends who got together 25 years ago and are still together today. I am proud that I was recently invited to that group. A long way from a major silo developer.

I am personally in complete agreement with you that the sim should be as close as we can get to reality. I am a passionate TSW3 fan. I am a railway enthusiast. You and I share that view. However, that view is not linked to whether we release at the end of May or early June. There were mistakes in the product. I joined the company as MML was shipping and immediately apologised for those mistakes (no company would deliberately release with bugs). I have worked with the team to address both issues and how we create content to minimise issues in the future. Totally transparent here, a lot of lessons were learnt.

Skyhook is a small developer that really care about their products. In addition to my recent hire, we have hired a head of production from the Star Citizen franchise and Adam Lucas, one of the founding members of DTG has just joined us as we are looking to raise the bar and provide all of you with products you will cherish. We care and we want to deliver groundbreaking content.

No secretive, non communicative silos, the patch is with our publishing partners and is going through the release process as I type. It is not a panacea for all issues. It is patch 1 of a series. It does, however, contain a huge amount of fixes and additions. MML is not a fire and forget product, we have future plans and aspirations for a range of additions and expansions.

I genuinely appreciate your feedback and my apologies for the long reply. I wanted to be very transparent.
Jane

 

More than a ton, I think we had a fully loaded Class 56 MGR train weight of work The team worked incredibly hard and I am really proud of them as we decided not just to fix issues but add a huge raft of new content simultaneously. I really appreciate your support, thank you!

Jane

 

IMPORTANT

In my keeping with transparency, an issue has been noted for those of you on console. This means that in the initial console patch, freight services will NOT be included. Breath a sigh of relief, they will be included in an update that follows rapidly after patch 1. For those on PC, the freight services will be included in the patch.

An issue has been found with the content manager in the core sim code for consoles. We are fixing this in partnership with some very talented engineers at DTG. This issue came across my desk this morning so I am sharing with you what I know as I know it.

The problem has been identified and a fix is in the works. The additional freight services will be released to console as a standalone update once this is fixed. I am not going to tempt fate, but I hope this further micro update for console users will arrive very rapidly indeed.

PC users are unaffected by this issue in the core code of the sim. We have a handle on the issue and engineers are jointly working on this right now as I type this morning. So we are in minor hiccup territory rather than major issue. I want to be very transparent and make you all aware that the console patch will be in 2 pieces because of this. Everyone will still get their freight services

The huge expansion of the 158 and HST timetables, all the other fixes and new content are unaffected.

Jane

 

Thanks Jane.

 

Is that a hint for future DLC?!

 

I really hope so

 

Class 56 would certainly be a cool addition if it is a hint.

 

Appreciate the heads up on that Jane

 

Hopefully more freight stuff gets added as a future add-on to the route I would like to see Ratcliffe power station get used whether that be with a Class 60 or a 56

 

Thank you for the heads up. It's very much appreciated. It's just frustrating that despite all the hard work you and your team have done, we are still getting bugger all feedback from DTG regarding any dates for the patches to come through.

 

I agree. SHG did say they are committed to MML and not just fixing the current issues. Having a working area around Ratcliffe would be a nice touch

 

Us poor console users but still excited for the patch.

 

Yes, disappointed we have to wait a bit longer for freight, but al least we will have it at some point.

 

That content manager has caused more problems then it’s fixed them…