Midland Mainline - Skyhook Feedback

For me HST braking will forever be associated with that asbestos smell!

 

These are precisely the little things that make a route livelier. As of now, the route just looks empty and dead. The real photos show well that the track looks much more run down and overgrown than it was implemented in the game.

So I hope that there is still something going on in this regard.

 

I am signing off for the night and heading home (my family will be sending out search parties!). I just wanted to thank you all for the open and frank engagement today. It has been a great experience to discuss with you all and I very much appreciate all the participation.

I will be around tomorrow and onwards in-between work commitments, so will pick up posts in the morning.

thank you again!
Jane

 

Hi Jane did I mention the level crossing at Spondon not working the lights don't flash overall I think the route will be great once you and your team have sorted the issues out thank you for the communication to resolve the problems

 

Yeah, now imagine if you could create smell-o-vision in the game. Diesel, smoke, fumes, oil on a summer's day, Webasco heaters and hot brake pads. Mmmm

 

I thought the 158 was max speed of 90mph?

 

You are correct. I checked the specs for the 158. I posted above based on a elderly memory.

 

Good evening, I notice that at the three village stations of nottingham, derby and leicester the station announcers have gone out on strike, either that or I have suddenly been struck with acute deafness. Obviously I realise that they have very little to announce as I stood ten minutes in derby village station at 9.00am and in all that time saw zero trains.
I then moved to leicester village station at 10.am on free roam the only sound there was the clock striking ten (sounded great well done, though not sure you would hear it in reality, above the noise of passengers on a busy city station and the station announcements) I realised that I obviously wasn't deaf and this must be a game problem, as must the lack of trains being shown on derby PIS which on all platforms showed only welcome to derby. Hopefully you can add station announcements to your list of to do's and the station PIS only showing welcome. Thank you. OH and thank you for adding more services to make these three city stations look less like country halts with 1 train a day.

 

The bug with people standing outside the cab on the 158 is game breaking you can get past them leaving the cab but you can't get back in the cab cause there someone standing right in front of the door how did this not get spotted before release it's shocking

 

I have to say, all of that is what I would class as trivia for OCD. These are NOT the major problems with this route.

 

Well, that's certainly a more positive response than DTG's dismal response to (justified) complaints about New York-Trenton's dismal timetable.

 

Try Ctrl-0 (zero) as a workaround? Undocumented quick command to get back in the cab. Useful to save long walks after shunting, too.

 

I’d say that in order to technically make the route as a seed route then surely there should be a commercial agreement or plan for that to be the case. Otherwise the route should be made to be a standalone product. It has been sold at a standalone price after all.

I’d also say that it isn’t something we could accept as players or customers. Somebody at Skyhook must have got the wrong end of the stick if they thought players would like to buy the route in instalments with the first instalment not living up to the expectation of the scope of a normal route DLC. Lots of players do want loco DLC and even route extensions but those should be optional extras not an excuse to release an incomplete product now.

I accept that it has been acknowledged here in this thread that the timetable doesn’t live up to expectation but I’m having difficulty accepting that this was a purely technical decision as nothing happens without the commercial side of a company getting involved and agreeing a strategy. I know Jane can’t really comment on that aspect of it but I’m talking to everyone here not just as a direct feedback to Skyhook and as such it is just an observation.

 

The 323 doesn't have "working GSM-R" either. You can turn it on, and run a pointless self-test. That's it.

 

I'm interested, what are do you think are the major problems with the route? And as for being OCD I highly doubt it as I've never been one for reporting bugs I've only been interested in this route because it's my home town and it's a fleet I used to fix for a living before becoming a driver. So yes I'm probably being a bit OCD but if I can help better the dlc then it that's fine. but if you actually read the thought everything you would find that that's what skyhook games wants Is for people to feedback on the game .

 

Well:

• Incorrectly sequenced approach control and other signaling errors
• Rogue TPWS loops springing undeserved brake demands
• Speed boards that don't match the game's line speed (which one is wrong is unclear)
• Rubber-stamped generic assets everywhere
• Sparse landscaping and scenery
• And, the big one: traffic density like the West Puddleby local

 

Just l

ok

 

Also the steam train….. that should NOT be running on the mainline especially with the Xmas lights

 

If this is the case, there's no way the Power Station and other missing assets will ever make an appearance. I'm too old to wait until 2030 and too poor to pay $800. ( Of course no-one knows what crazy exchange rate will exist 7 years from now ).

Have to agree. There's no such thing as a " seed route " in TSW at this point. It's never been mentioned or promised by DTG, so I'd want to see something official from DTG management if this is the new business plan and accompanying pricing policy. Until then all forum members please return to terra firma.

I mean I'd love to see HSC expanded towards Chicago or Philly. Or a Heritage Pack with the Centipede and Broadway Ltd.

All in all, with all due respect to SHG and the OP, I'll be keeping a pinch of salt handy until I read something concrete about future plans for this route or any of their other DLC.

 

Is this normal? As soon as I wrote this, I had a random emergency brake screw me over for no reason whatsoever..?

 

This is a bug but has been fixed in the dev build so it should be in the upcoming patch.

This is not correct. I have confirmed with a driver that it stays extinguished. Although when pressed it illuminates the Engine Stop, and both Transmission Fault lights. This function is in the upcoming patch.

Incorrect. I confirmed with drivers. It is always extinguished.

Incorrect. I have described how it acts in more detail in the "bits and bobs" thread.

This is a thing now, but I was told that it was only implemented in 2019 which is after the route is set.

 

Right.

I've never driven any of the EMR ones but the ones I drive when the guard preses the buzzer it lights up on the desk and the same when we press it as well. And the same for the sand button.

 

Thanks for the input!

This might just be one of those things where different TOC differ. For example I know for a fact that some 158s have enhanced emergency brake (I even have a recording of the brake cylinder pressure going above 4.5 bar in emergency on an empty train) while the EMR ones don't have it

And some have TPWSV4 while the EMR only have the old version (which is simulated with a certain "hack" implemented that might be best left unsaid lol)

 

I would classify passengers blocking the exit of the cab as a major bug.

 

Quite possibly. I think your on about TPWS Mk4.

 

One more thing: I sometimes seem to trigger a traction lock on the 158 I cannot recover from. I think I have narrowed it down to having used the guard's panel for closing the doors. After that, the doors are all closed, and I remove the guard's key, but the notch indicator on the HUD remains red. I don't get the usual message about a door being open either. Setting the reverser to off and on again, restarting the engine and disabling the safety systems doesn't help either, nor does manipulating the guard's controls more.

 

Pure passion right here. Excellent brief Jane.

 

At least this thread isn't full of as much negativity as this one: Midland Mainline - Leicester To Derby & Nottingham | Dovetail Games Forums

 

The gsm/r intentionally doesn’t work this was clearly stated in preview stream

 

How many times has DTG CTO come onto the forum for a days engagement.. It's normally left to JD or Matt to firefight.

That said, I think someone mentioned before this approach by Jane is a considerably more different one to support the community than after the Trenton release.

I think the key to this approach is transparency as much as can be with timing rather than it being a "it's being looked at" and then nothing but more dlc being pumped out with no updates to the "being looked at" one.

If there's marked changes in the dlc and theres more confirmed for it in the short term (hopefully more track bolted on and a network being built) then my wallet will reopen for this

 

Signals TN 4960, 4962, 4964, 4966 (on the approach to Nottingham) have TPWS ramps that force a penalty brake when passing them in a trailing direction.

All speed boards, Morpeth boards and whistle boards need attention- the font size is all over the place, design, colour and placement too.

Edit: these points at Nottingham have no blades

 

Good morning jane-skyhook,
Firstly just wanted to say that it’s a great route that you guys at skyhook games built, especially for your first passenger route. Just one little thing I noticed was at 06:31 at Loughborough the AI train to Norwich is heading in the opposite site direction to Norwich.

 

Worth a mention that with the 158 and passengers in the vestibule behind the driver, on a real 158 should the driver need to exit the can somewhere other than a station there is button somewhere in the cab that locks the vestibule sliding door and also disables the door behind the cab from being used by passengers. If the driver has to climb down to use a signal post telephone etc they don’t want a member of public to join them!!

 

First of all, welcome jane-skyhook and secondly well done on such a beautiful route, get these bug fixes right and we are onto a winner, as it’s one of favourites routes in reality and from TSC so hopefully in TSW3 too!

I posted in another thread but in case it wasn’t captured:

But onto the issues and this is important for me, forget the door open close buttons being wrong, done floating assets to be honest driving from the cab, I wouldn’t notice them!

But there are some immersion breaking issues that has let the DLC down and that’s the completely broken signalling and speed signs and limits and pathing!

There are 50 over 50 speed limits outsideNottingham, a 40 over 40 coming into Leicester, a 120 over 110 HST on the Up Fast at Sileby.

Signalling I’ve played 2A59 Nottingham to Derby, so at Trent East Junction you are presented with a double yellow and single yellow with feathercrossing over Trent East Junction onto Sheet Stores, and then a red with is approach control crossing over Sheet Stores, I don’t think that’s correct, the approach control should be for the 30mph turnout at Trent East Junction if anything.

On approach to Derby, I get a double yellow, single yellow, not a problem. Then the HUD shows a green, but the signal is red with a calling on aspect?! There’s absolutely no need for that aspect!

1B43 Nottingham to Leicester, notice double yellows from Beeston onwards, so thought must be following another train, then the double yellowsstep up the a green at the last second then the HUD shows the next signal as green regardless, sodefinitely not following another train, confirmed on the map. Have Skyhook got the wrong end of the stick over approach control?!

Again 1B43 leaving Nottingham, routed on the Upfrom line D to line C back to line D into the Up Fast, maybe someone forgot a go via instruction?! Itshould be Line D until switching onto the Up Fast.

Random TPWS interventions approaching Mountsorrel on the down fast and Nottingham.

 

Uhuh, add what is also occurring in that screenshot to the list. There's light coming out of the carriage underfloor equipment. (bleeding from the carriage light?)

 

Absolutely, I want to see all the promises aren’t just more spin doctoring in the same way as Rivet (lurching Arosa loco, 1938 stock silent when coasting/braking etc.) and DTG (Clinchfield banking comms, steam physics) have set the trend.

As regards the power station well I would say it is ludicrous to suggest providing the MGR circuit with working unloaders would make a route cost £800! What are you paying your route builders and 3D modellers, £500 an hour?! I think not… The tech already exists in TSW (Clinchfield and TVL) and come on, Trainz has been doing visible loading and unloading since 2001 and Run 8 with a small, mostly part time with day jobs, team has massive routes with industry spurs all over the place. Admittedly not animated but still there and accessible to leave rafts of cars and pick them up later. If it is that hard to build or change things in TSW, then DTG really did buy into the wrong game engine for it.

 

100% agree they wouldn't even have to make anything new either, just have the EWS 66/0 and an EWS liveried HAA Hopper

 

Morning, hope you are well.

I think that you may have misread my comments. I rather light-heartedly suggested it would push the development out years and costs would rise considerably if we had implemented "everything" we want to do with this route. I was certainly not implying an £800 MGR circuit. I was making the point that we have a huge number of things that we would like to add and that with the best will in the world, we could not implement all of those things now. I went on to explain a little of our rationale and aspirations within the technical team.

I appreciate your feedback, but just wanted to clear up that misunderstanding.

Jane

 

Good morning, thank you for your post I appreciate it.

You are absolutely right that transparency is the key and we will feedback to you here what we can and when we are able to do so. You will notice a few posts above CWF.Green discussing 158 issues that have been addressed in the current dev build for example. Communication matters to myself and the whole team. I cannot give an hourly blow by blow account of each fix, simply because items are in flux, being checked and double checked and then checked again. However, as confidence firms up on where we are at, we will certainly share that with you. An example of that is above as mentioned.

Thank you again. Your feedback is constructive and helpful and very much appreciated.
Jane

 

Thank you for this and good morning Shaun! I have passed your notes to our signalling people. Your notes are really useful, so I appreciate them being passed on.

Jane

 

Hi Jane! Glad to meet you and thank you for the attention you give to our community!!!
Having the opportunity to communicate with you, I want to express my gratitude to the Skyhook team for the excellent Cane Creek and Horseshoe Curve routes that were presented to us earlier. This is amazing work. Thank you for the pleasure of driving trains through beautiful countryside.

A little about your new Midlands Main Line product:
1. Route: I like it, I enjoy spending time playing. Only there is a sense of the rapid end of the scenario. I want a longer train run. I'm missing more fine detail in the environment (by evaluating your past routes, I'm sure you can make richer and more beautiful environments with more small way objects).
2. Rolling stock: 158 is amazing, HST is also very good. My small wishes - the work of the wiper requires correction, during rain and snow the windshield is not freed from the effect of the presence of water and snow on it. I do not really like the sun glare and reflections on the glass, which distort the view through the glass. On the XST, I do not have enough external camera view from the cockpit window (shunting).
3. Schedule: working passenger services are enough for me to run on the route, but a poor schedule makes it empty and lifeless. I want more services, especially cargo traffic. Very little maneuvering work.

In general, I am satisfied with the purchase. Taking into account possible future improvements in the route, saturation of the schedule and rolling stock, its possible expansion, I am crazy about it. My expectations are at a very high level. I am ready to wait long enough knowing that sooner or later this asset will turn into a real gem.

 

I would like to just reference the snow too please, that does hold the ambience down now against newer routes. Thank you

 

Great to meet you too! I agree with you on Cane Creek and Horseshoe Curve. They are amazing. I have only just joined Skyhook, so was not involved in the development of those. I actually bought them as a fan!

Good news on the wipers and windows. We have addressed those issues for the forthcoming patch. We are currently looking at schedules and seeing how we can update them for everyone.

 

I agree with you completely. The TSW3 snow was not available (it wasn't a thing) when the route was first being put together. We are actively looking at opportunities to retrofit the TSW3 snow. I would like to see it incorporated too. I cannot make promises but we are aware and discussing internally how this could be achieved.

 

Thanks for responding Jane. My comments were somewhat tongue in cheek but I do think a working power station would have added greatly to the gameplay and perhaps persuaded myself and several others not to refund. The industry side game is one of the great assets of Run 8 though obviously its emergent and time passing persistent world is not quite the same as TSW contained scenarios.

 

found a possible issue (I think) on one of the scenarios, I downloaded liveries for the 158, one of which is a FGW livery, I was using it in a custom scenario then when I went to do one of the proper scenarios i have a 4 car unit, the first two cars have the FGW livery and the second two the EMT livery

 

That's just how livery designer works.

 

Timetable 2K29 Derby - Nottingham:

Game crash just before Beeston!

 

That's what CC does. Drops random instances of any downloads onto any compatible asset, in other words you'll now have random GWR 158s popping up anywhere there's a 158

 

Great write up for the signalling, one more i've noticed.....

Approaching E Mids Parkway from the north we have inadequate approach control as well. Going from 70 to a 25 mph turnout we only have a double yellow, followed by yellow with feather at the junction signal ST4510. Should be at least flashing yellows or maybe even an approach control from red?
Also the hud speeds are wrong/missing for that crossover, only shows 40mph in the hud when it is signposted 25mph (not that I like using the hud).

If we could get those signalling issues sorted it would be great. But I am enjoying the route, Iooking forward to some updates for it.