Mittenwaldbahn Discussion Thread!

As I just posted in the speculation thread, the screenshots are a dream come true to me. Exactly what I want to see more of in TSW.

Silberlinge, classic IC coaches, ocean-blue/beige 111, E94 … amazing.

 

Also true. The 1020 couldn't be controlled from the cab car anyway. Perhaps the shunting comment referred to the 1020 only, and not the 111? Certainly hope so, currently having a blast running the 111 and her n-Wagen up and down Kinzigtalbahn
Although some shunting around the train would be nice, BRO has some and it's quite fun... albeit half of the shunting services there can't be completed since they lead you outside of the playable area

Either of them would be amazing! But we'll already get a brand new loco, the ABn and a ton of period-accurately-repainted rolling stock, so I definitely won't complain.
Although I love the 628.0 and have very fond memories of it (I grew up right between the routes of Kempten-Pfronten and Kaufbeuren-Füssen), I highly doubt we'll ever see it ingame. It's just too much of a niche vehicle.

 

Cab cars were not used on Mittenwald at all in the time period the route is set so the inclusion would be pointless.

 

I have mentioned the Marshbahn before, someone said its not that great a route, I disagree, old signalling, masses of shunting, running round, car trains, ICs, regional, Danish services and a novel run across the cause way to Westerland. Playing it on Zusi motivated me to actually get over there and sample it. Was great seeing such a variety of operations.

 

I got curious and did some research on this. And it seems you're absolutely right
Of all the locos used in this area at that time, the 111 would be the only one capable of using the cab car anyway. The equally common 110 lacked the proper equipment (most of them were equipped with it in the mid-late 90's, see LFR), as did the 1020 and 1042.
The only period-accurate pictures of cab cars on this route that I could find are some, where the cab car is running right behind the loco. It's basically just there because of the baggage compartment. Like this one.

Let's wait and see

 

Wonder if the steep gradients mandated always having the loco at the front of the train.

 

Hmm... interesting point.
Please somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but in Germany there's something called Steilstreckenvorschrift, which basically translates to "steep track regulation". All routes with gradients of over 40‰ have to adhere to certain special rules. If my memory serves me right, it's also mentioned that the loco always has to be at the downhill-facing end of the train.
Meaning for the Mittenwaldbahn: Since it's steepest gradient is 38‰, it's pretty steep but actually not classified as a steep track under German reglementation. And even if it were, that would simply mean that the loco must always face towards Innsbruck, which would in fact make a cab car mandatory for the return trip.

Although the steepest parts are on the Austrian side. Don't know if there's a similar regulation in Austria, but I bet there is.

OK, that's enough nerding around from me for today

 

Wow, day one purchase for sure. This looks stunning. Well, TSG after all ...

 

Confused by this:

There was never a blue TEE livery,* nor did UIC Z-coaches ever appear in blue (originally crimson/beige, then white and red)**. Besides, looking at this photo


Those blue coaches are decidely different: closer window spacing, and no ribs on the roof/ Could they in fact be m-Wagen?

________________
*Not counting the short-lived cobalt blue/beige Rheingold livery 1962-65 (ie before the Rheingold became a TEE train)
**Some current IC coaches came from the Interregio, which were white and blue in the Produkfarben era, but those were never TEE

 

IIRC, in 1989 cab cars were only used on S-bahnen and similar commuter trains, where quick turnaroundfs were important. Cab cars on long distance trains didn't appear until the advent of the Interregio trains using ex-DR cab cars (which after upgrade were also paired with the 101 on ICs). This why for example the 110s, which were always used on F-trains, weren't Steuerwagen compatible back then. Generally at terminus stations they just shunted things around to get a loco on the outbound end; since at a terminus they usually also changed crews and brought in the housecleaners, there was little rush.

 

Calling it "blue TEE livery" is wrong, but DB did have UIC-Z coaches in blue/beige: the Bpmz coach that's been in TSW ever since the old 101 loco pack. This is going to be the coach in the screenshot.

 

Just a shame they haven't done some Am/Bm232 or similar coaches as these would surely be more at home on this route.

 

Will need to and want to learn signalling etc to drive this properly but want to reach out and do that.

 

Will signalling be different from the Austrian/German routes we already have?

 

I don't believe the ones in the photo are Z-Wagen; the windows and roof are wrong. Also, if I'm not mistaken, all of the Bpmz were purchased for TEE/IC service after those were expanded to offer 2nd Class.

 

I don't know the route well enough to be sure if there are any semaphores, but there are, those could be the non-standard Bavarian type. However, by the time the route is set, I think those would be displaying the normal aspects, they'd just look unusual.

EDIT: there are indeed Bavarian semaphores, as seen here at Garmisch in 1994.

I have double-checked the screenshot against pictures of the real-life coaches and I'm sure that they are the Avmz and Bpmz that we have in game already. What about the windows and roof looks wrong to you?

 

There are no roof ridges, characteristic of the UIC Z type. And at least to my eye the windows are spaced too closely together.

 

I totally forgot about those still being in use in Garmisch at the time! Let's see if they are included properly in the route, would add just that tiny little extra bit of immersion

 

I am pretty sure that there are ridges on the roof

 

I agree there are in fact ridges visible in the screenshot. The coach also has nine normal-width and two half-width windows with a wide windowless space (for luggage racks) at the end, which is a characteristic feature of the Bpmz.

A Bm would have twelve normal-width windows and two half-whidth windows, all of them would be openable, the windows would go right up to the doors, the doors would be a different type (with the window, and the wide black rubber seal, closer to the middle of the coach than to the end) and the end of the roof would be much more rounded instead of vertical.

This is 100% a Bpmz.

 

All right, I stand corrected. But were they ever painted Ozeanblau? I thought they were all exclusively for IC/TEE trains

 

Yes.

That is not a contradiction. 2nd class IC coaches were ocean-blue/beige.

 

To add some proof to that:



I kinda like the dual colour scheme of the early IC's. Red for first class, blue for second, cream for both. Plus, the classes were easily distinguishable even from a distance, while still looking very elegant and valuable

 

To add to this, the Bpmz coaches certainly weren't intended for TEE trains as those were always first class only. They were built when the InterCity network transitioned from first-class-only trains every other hour to hourly trains carrying both classes. That step ("IC '79") is in fact what killed many of the remaining TEE trains.

 

Thank you mkraehe#6051 and Lamplight and AmityBlight for correcting my misapprehension. I had thought mistakenly that all IC coaches were red/beige; my bad (I lived there before '79, when there was no 2nd on ICs. For that matter, there was no Ozeanblau).

The dual liveries in a way are reminiscent of the older system, with blue first class and green second on F and FD trains.

 

It also inadvertently killed the BR 103s; they weren't designed to pull such heavy trains so often and they wore out prematurely.

 

True, but I’d see it the other way around. It showed just what a tremendous design the 103 was. She managed to pull trains (more than) twice as heavy as intended at double the frequency and still performed admirably.

All things considered, the 103 reached a service age similar to the 101 (which are on their last legs now, it seems) despite being punished way more than originally intended.

True, I didn’t even think of that. I find the bi-colour ICs visually quite pleasing. Designs that had all coaches and locos wear the same livery always looked too monotonous for my taste, which is why I liked DB Fernverkehr’s decision to keep their locos in traffic red instead of ICE colours (before the advent of the IC2 changed that, of course).

 

The Bpmz had a very funky exotic interior, at least in the first years. Yellow with green. Holiday started when entering the train. Curious to see how DTG/TSG will replicate that.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bpmz-...hn#/media/Datei:Inneneinrichtung_Bpmz_291.jpg

 

1970s design sense was.... interesting

 

I’m pretty excited for this route. The more vintage German stuff in TSW has been pretty interesting/engaging. DB 103, 111, 110 are some of my fav trains to drive. So an 80s German/Austrian route will be great. I will say that I will probably wait until early reviews address whether or not it suffers from the blurring texture issue that’s been plaguing complex TSW5 routes lately. I won’t be spending money on any routes that have that issue going forward.

 

wow, this scenery is insanely impressive, clouds over hills? don't think I've seen that before in TSW

what a monster of a route

i can definitley understand it being the same price as WCML OS. the detail is definitely on par, if not better

 

Yes as I just mentioned in the “Live” thread, state of TSW notwithstanding, this is a Day One purchase. Just too all round iconic to ignore.

Good god, Vern actually being positive about TSW, please don’t all faint.

 

Looks great, new feature? Also I think there's lots of new foliage types which also helps decrease the 'samey-ness' of routes. May have to purchase if so.

 

Omg 39,99€???!!!
I mean... the route looks great and tsg quality products but cmon dtg...
Firts from 30€ to 35,99€ and now 39,99???!!!
I'll probably buy it anyways but I'm really disappointed by this.

 

Well that is the same price as the JT Shap route, which to be honest was expected. In fact I’m pleasantly surprised it didn’t go for the £35 price spot. And putting things in perspective, that’s only £3 more than the Ludwig route which is not to the same standard and had no new rolling stock.

That’s not to say the price trends don’t concern me, but in practical terms just means I triage what I buy and leave the lesser items to pick up in a sale or not bother at all.

Also probably correct in thinking there won’t be any sort of preorder discount on this.

 

These 3D clouds have been introduced with Train Sim World 5 as a new feature, however were not discussed (and noticed) a lot before. I don't know why actually.

But since this is the first TSW5 route including mountains as high as these, they are way more noticable and look superb indeed. A great new feature of TSW5. Actually one of my favorites.

 

Personally on TSW it's been a long time since it was purchased on sale or nothing but I'm sure the promo will be small like Niddertalbahn so I'll probably buy it in a very longggggggggggggg time even if the route looks interesting

 

Don’t you mean TSW 3? Also Vorarlberg in TSW 4 also had hills & mountains going through clouds so not really the first time this has happened, still pretty though

 

The difference with Vorarlberg is you were observing the mountains while running across fairly flat terrain. Mitten puts you in the hills!

 

So I checked some sources and it appears that clouds indeed could cover hills before as for example here in one of the photos from the Steam product page of S-Bahn Vorarlberg.


However, (and this is where my understanding came from) at least in the TSW5 version of the PC Editor, clouds now appear permanently on the map and even do cast massive shadows. This type of clouds didn't spawned in this way in the TSW4 version of the Editor (at least not by default settings).

It appears to me that clouds were more of a 2Dish texture spawned in quite a distance before.

But I also could be completely wrong. I would like some clarification from the developer side.

 

€39.99
But I can understand it, this is one of the best TSW routes, and is soon becoming my favorite route. But I can't buy it at this price

 

Normally I would have argued against such a steep price, but I can actually see where they're coming from. I think it's justified... this time

First, I can imagine this route has been a ton of work to build, considering the landscape, topography and all the necessary assets. Plus it's set in 1989, a whopping 35 years in the past... I can imagine this didn't make research and halfway accurate representation any easier.

Second, we're getting a built-from-scratch new loco which is unlike anything we had before, at least in the German/Austrian niche of TSW. And also a loco which is no longer in regular service, although quite a surprising amount are still around and in working condition in private companies and museum organisations. This also requires extra work for research.

Third, the 111 also gets a period-appropriate makeover, complete with new dashboard and Indusi. Not as much work as a completely new loco, but still requires research and effort. And the rest of the rolling stock seems to have gotten a lot of work put into them as well, with new (old) interiors for the passenger cars and some quite diverse options for freight.

Fourth, and I really, really hope I don't have to take that back someday: Considering TSG is making this one, I'm pretty sure more testing and quality control went into this one than what we've recently got from DTG themselves...

 

Looks worth the cost to me. In the end prices will rise and if the route is well done with a new and interesting loco then £5.00 more isn't bad. Looks like a rare day one from me.

 

The frog in the pan method showing again that it works lol

 

We are climbing slowly but surely, but the wallet goes down violently

 

Except that the frog in the pan was already dead in the experiment...

 

Because it didn't jump out when the temp got too high lol

 

The route looks fantastic and I really hope it will be the first TSW5 content to buy.
The only concern I have left is thw ongoing issue regarding the draw distance on XSX..
Will such superb valley views be possible to see for us xbox users too?
Or will the mountains be chopped off, floating or a mysterious fog hindering the sight?
So far every mountainous piece of TSW DLC suffers quite badly from this, at least enough for being a serious immersion breaker and the thing that it's most likely something TSG can't change because it's a core issue and therefore DTG related doesn't make me confident.

 

Not necessarily. As I said informed decision on this one but I won’t be parting with £33 for Cardiff, Dutch Route and neither the half North London line or mini Manchester route are of particular interest. Tadami, if it moves beyond vapourware, question mark.

However probably the only question I will be asking on the stream Q&A for this route, is have we seen a stealth general price increase. Not that DTG will answer, though.

 

Fireside chats need paying for!!