Mittenwaldbahn Discussion Thread!

This might just look odd due to youtube doing weird things with video compression.

 

It's possible, but it's currently disturbing to me, especially the frame and chassis of the 1020 .....
Lukas should be able to shed some light on it

EDIT:
Towards the end of the stream, a question was asked whether the chassis was correct, whether it was too light ....... I admit that I didn't completely understand the answer, but personally, the chassis seems maybe too light, but overall from the stream it seems unnatural, as if it didn't belong to the car ... I don't know

 

Late question for DTG Lukas or Matin_TSP … Are there any haulage Easter Eggs in the timetable like the Class 47 on Semmering?! Though I doubt the 47 would make it up the Mittenwaldbahn grades, not without overheating. But a guest appearance from the 218 on a Railtour would be a pleasant surprise.

 

Hi Vern this may help https://youtu.be/ogVC9rlEmjQ?t=3010s link should take you to correct position in the stream

 

Hats off to Matin_TSP and DTG Lukas, I feel like the German stream was a much better preview stream and also much more informative. Very well prepared and interesting questions being asked and clarified. Exactly what I was looking for in a preview stream.

I can also confirm that the sound issue was a no-show and thus should hopefully not be an issue in the actual product. The 1020’s sounds seemed a little quiet to me for an old-school powerhouse with axle-hung motors, but I’ll wait and see. Lukas commented that the 1020s only start getting loud under load, which 3 coaches certainly aren’t. I’ve never stood next to/been on one in use, so I can’t judge properly.

My only remaining concern is blurry textures on PS5. Given that Niddertalbahn doesn’t suffer from it and the route is too good to pass up, I’ll trust TSG that this route won’t be affected for now. I’ll report back either way to share whether there is a problem.

Lastly, for the benefit of all not speaking German, there were a lot of interesting tidbits in what Lukas talked about. My takeaway was that there might be more plans for the 1020 (possibly in green, maybe even a proper E94?), Lukas’ favourite route is still on the way for TSW, Mittenwaldbahn might possibly receive a loco DLC depending on how it does financially and whether TSG want to revisit it (it’s up in the air - good sales don’t necessarily mean they will follow up with a loco DLC), the 420 should hopefully come out this year, Lukas is interested in a gameplay pack for LFR utilising all the older rolling stock added by now (but nothing is in the works for now).

And of special interest in regards to “old content/BR Blue doesn’t sell”, Lukas commented on this given that TSG focuses on vintage routes (which he confirmed on stream). Essentially, Lukas said that vintage content does sell just as well if the content is appealing, which differentiates it from modern content. With modern content, anything sells well but with vintage content, it only sells well if the content is appealing enough. That’s the way I understood him, at least.

Again, an excellent preview stream that was very informative and alleviated my doubts after the official preview stream.

 

Thanks for that. Well there is always Off The Rails and Scenario Editor. And certainly nice to see the route running smoothly.

 

I watched the stream as well, very informative and nicely done! Kudos to Matin_TSP and DTG Lukas, my resolve to buy this right on release has never been stronger

It's puzzling to me why vintage content really doesn't seem to sell as good as modern stuff. Looking at the available German content, we've got so many modern-era routes now, that it starts to get quite repetitve.
Seriously, I don't even consider buying Mannheim-Kaiserslautern at this point. On the other hand, Mittenwaldbahn will be like a breath of fresh air. The price is steep, but I'll gladly pay it for this level of quality and detail.

The 1020 is a good showcase as to why I prefer older locos over new ones. As a train driver, there's just much more to do, much more to know about... it requires a great amount of skill to drive properly. For me personally, "mastering" something like a 1020 is much more appealing then, let's say, a TRAXX or Vectron.

Regarding older locos, there's one question bugging me... It came up a couple of times during the stream, but hasn't been answered as far as I could notice:
Is there a particular reason why the LFR 110 doesn't sub in for the 111?
Don't get me wrong, I've grown to love the 111, and can't wait to get my hands on the cream/blue one. But the 110 was just as home on that route during this particular era.

 

Is the LFR 110 period correct? Since LFR is late 90s, there might be differences that make it unfit for the era.

 

I already mentioned it in the official thread.

Personally, I hope that Mittenwaldbahn won't blur textures, but it's just a hope...after all, n-Wagens weren't problematic for this behavior, and the traffic there isn't that extensive either, and I assume there will only be a few units of layers, maybe ten.....

Sometimes this problem feels like roulette... you never know

What bothers me more is the texture of the frame and chassis of the 1020, as we mentioned above.

 

Well it's simple: People mistly buy what they're familiar with/can relate to. If the customer base is young, then they're more likely to buy modern stuff because that's what they're used to.

 

Fairly certain when I visited in 1983 it was either a 140 or possibly 139 working the train. If they were still about at the time this route is set, there’s your DLC and as a much requested add on it would layer nicely on many other DB routes.

 

Outwardly, yes. It's got the old Bundesbahn-style logo and the colour scheme has been in use since 1987. But to be totally accurate, the cabs would need a rework, not unlike TSG did with the 111 (older-style speedometer, Indusi instead of PZB...). I guess that's also the reason why it won't sub in on this route...

That's true as well. While historic trains seem to garner a lot of interest too, that's mostly steam trains. When there's a historic steam train travelling somewhere, everyone's looking. But if it's a historic train pulled by an E94 or something similar, it's just the hardcore train buffs who get excited. A little bit of a shame, really.

Could have been either. I've seen pictures from the 80's which showed 140, 139, 110 and 111 in all sorts of duties. At that time, they weren't too picky about which class does which job

 

140-41s DB, 1042/44s ÖBB (old orange livery) were certainly present here! I found out that there were occasional services with 218s too! Schlierenwagen coaches also found their way here. They would be interesting additions IMHO!






As for the Matin_TSP preview... Well, I was very, very satisfied about what I saw . Rolling stock is really good, but the strong point is the landscape (and the care put in by TSG)! And those UIC-Zs... Their interior made me jump back 35 years! I'm deeply connected to that coach; in my country they were introduced when I was born. Gorgeous route and great work, TSG !

 

Was about to post the same. Technically, none of the cabs on LFR are era appropriate but neither is the 3D model of the 103, which does have a layer, so who knows. Lukas was very insistent on remaining era accurate based on what he said on stream, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the messy depiction of the 110 is the reason for her exclusion.

A lovely aspect of the time. Off-topic, but I’ve seen a picture of a 110 pulling coal trains in the Ruhr area (in the 70s, if memory serves).

Agreed. I feel like they are a bit the unsung heroes of this route. It’ll be amazing to have them in TSW along with proper Silberlinge.

Did somebody say possible 140 DLC?

 

It's really great to hear that similar to the expert 101 stream this stream was very well received! If you all would want it (and also ask for it clearly), I'm sure when the next German DLC comes out someone from TSG/DTG might be able to come back.

No promises of course as developers shouldn't spend their (free) time too much on YouTube streams. But I'm greatful to DTG and TSG for supporting these streams and taking time to answer a lot of questions. Basically Lukas was answering questions for like 3 hours. So thanks a lot! Hopefully again in future

 

I totally forgot about those!
If my memory serves me, these were the IC's coming from somewhere north (Frankfurt?) towards Mittenwald. A lot of military personnel stationed there used them.
Since their journey took them along the Ammerseebahn, which wasn't (and still isn't) electrified, the train got one or two 218's attached at Augsburg for the remainder of the route. Sometimes, a 111 would run along "cold" behind the 218(s).

Fun fact: the 218 406 in this picture is still active today, it's stationed in Kempten and dressed in a marvellous vintage orient red/white livery

Yep, LFR has got some free creative spirit going on when it comes to accuracy... it's still one of my favourite routes regardless
Since the 103 is mostly window dressing on Mittenwaldbahn, basically AI only with two microscopic playable services, I can forgive the inaccuracies

Indeed, those are a big fat cherry on top of an already delicious cake. I love that colour scheme
Really hope to see them in more widespread use on other routes in the future, perhaps as historic trains like Mannheim-Kaiserslautern is going to get.
Frankfurt-Fulda has got two similar services, and Rosenheim-Salzburg as well.. so who knows?

Oh yes please! Gimmeeeee

Consider me asking clearly

 

I love the appearance of these coaches. They look super majestic compared to the other German passenger wagons. Can someone explain the difference between them and the vintage IC coaches that were included with LFR? Are they older and built for a different purpose?

 

The IC coaches in Mittenwaldbahn, Linke Rheinstrecke, and even the 101 addons, are the exact same prototype, just at different points in their long lives. DB just kept on refurbishing these coaches.

 

What we really need are some classic Am and Bm 232 UIC coaches.

 

There's a video on YT from Felix today.....it looks like the windows no longer have cloud reflections...but I'm still a little uneasy about the chassis texture on the 1020

 

Thanks for the response. One thing is the brightness, in my opinion, as a past texture creator for Trainz I dare say that if it were 10-15% darker it would be better, but I find it strange and maybe it's just the quality of compression via YT videos, that it looks strange as if it were in a gray filter, as if it were in fog, no contrast, no depth..... videos can be really confusing......

EDIT: And the least important factor for me is that it works on the PS5 Pro without any known problems

 

By grey I meant that it's that weird effect on those YT videos. I guess I can't name it properly. It seems to lose depth and it's like a blurry texture, but the Silberlings are clearly visible in the video, so it worries me. Of course the beige grey shades are due to traffic and fading from the sun, I understand that. If the middle screen is from TSW, it's better there. However, I would still lean towards a slight darkening (about 10-15%)

EDIT: Anyway, if we compare the three pictures, the middle one is different. But sometimes it's just alchemy

 

Just watching the (really good!) TSP stream with Lukas from last Saturday, and at 01:19:30, Lukas mentions he has uploaded a video of a dev version of the route somewhere. Does anyone have a link to that?

 

I tend to agree the 1020's red colour is rather light and sometimes looks a bit orange. Making it darker seems to be the right move...

 

btw does anybody know what plane that is in the mittenwaldbahn trailer at the 25 second mark bc it doesnt look like a airbus plane

 

This has been shared on the TSC Discord a few days ago by a user who probably looked into the files of the pre-release update. Looks like they made an era-correct version.

 

Super cool!
There’s also a retro bus being added to road traffic in one of the next patches for the route. They showed it in the Lukas/TSP preview.

 

From the brief look I've seen, stepping into those IC coaches with the yellow seats gave me an enormous rush of nostalgia. I'd love to see some mixed rakes with these and the coaches on Linke Rheinstrecke (mixed n-Wagen consists too).

 

So obviously the route has already been released on some platforms, but not Steam...

Is the manual available somewhere to have a quick look please?

 

Did the IC coaches included with Mittenwaldbahn ever appear in consists together with the Linke Rheinstrecke ones? I’m assuming the LFR “Produktfarben” ones are refurbished versions, with new exterior and interior colors. But perhaps there was a transitional period where both appeared together. Would be amazing because I love mixed consists!

 

Ok, found the manual here:

https://media.dovetailgames.com/Manuals/Mittenwaldbahn.pdf

61 pages, nice...

 

Oh yes there was. 1980s-2000s DB was an absolute mess of different paint schemes. Deutsche Bundesbahn had abandoned several paint schemes before ever completely transitioning into them, and German reunification certainly didn't help matters either.

 

Does anyone know when we can expect it to drop on Steam?

 

Yep

 

To be fair, the train landscape did look a lot more interesting back then

 

1800 UTC/GMT so assuming it’s a 15 to 20Gb d/L I won’t be playing straight off. Oh for a preload on this sort of content.

 

just downloading the route on PS5 it's 11GB so it's a chunky one

 

Should take me around 20 minutes from Steam then (throttles me to 9Mb/s due to mechanical drives), so hopefully heading up the mountain by 1825 - ignoring for now the once around the Training Centre first leg of Journey mode.

 

According to SteamDB it's the second biggest DLC file with Over Shap being number 1

 

The German Wikipedia article on the IC coaches is pretty fun, especially the subsection on the paint schemes. Just super chaotic

I neeeed it!

 

Good job on finding it. I didn't link it before because I had submitted a couple of corrections and additions to DTG, that's now been solved!

 

By the way: I found Lukas’ video of the unfinished route in late 2023! It was unlisted on YouTube and quite hard to find on Discord

 

I absolutely love the add on, the scenery, the rolling stock just wow. I do feel as if the 1020 loco sounds (flange squeel, engine noise and overall running sounds) are a bit on the quiet side. But that would be my only nit pick.
Great job TSG!

 

Awesome addon!
Great work and a lot of rolling stock.
The Silberlings and Rmms are awesome!
And I only did a quick taster because I have commitments.

 

The route is awesome. Chapeau TSG!

Only downside is that is going to be difficult to play to another route after this one.

 

Posted my initial thoughts in the official feedback thread. Would probably go with 8/10 at present. There’s the texture/geometry issue with the 1020 chassis and under fame. Sounds could do with a buff and I also mentioned the view height for the driver standing in the cab means you can’t clearly see signals if it’s raining due to the low sweep of the wipers.

But overall very nice and once I’ve finished the first proper scenario in Journey, going to do a twilight timetable run in clear conditions to see the route at its best.

 

Second impressions: it's hard. Kept stalling with the 111 and rolling down the bank, and I presume that's the easier of the two locos. Gonna take some getting used to.

Tried the 11:22 from Garmisch to Mittenwald in guard mode and it stopped at a red signal straight away with nothing apparently in its way.

 

Yes, doing a hill start in the 1020 is quite tricky particularly as the detente from Running to Off for brakes has little resistance, easy to key past. IMHO there should be advanced tutorials in the same way they did for the heavy freight on Cajon to learn the handling. I mean, I’m absolutely loving the 1020 but a quick bit of shunting in the Training Centre was not the best way to introduce the loco.