More Focus On Improving Sounds Please

Or even better if they can't get the audio just ask us the community to record the sound and use it in game. How many years is it going to take for the company to realize that Realistic Sound is the core to many players here on top of that being the train? How can this company call themself train sim world, when some train feels like you are not actually in one rather than floating on the track like a Maglev. How many years will we as the player go to have to wait before they understand the importance of sounds? I really hate the fact that we say something and the team is just brushing almost all the things under the rug.

Don't get me wrong I really do appreciate how far the sound department team have come and made a huge improvement on all the train, but it just still one key aspect that they really need to work on and that is creating a more realistic track sound in the game, and also how some people here say they are just reusing the same audio on the other train as well. Please get new track sounds and stop reusing the same sound again. It would make us the player feel happy, and your team happy as well, because it's a win win situation. We get what we want, and in return we give you money by buying the DLC and will stop bring this topic up. I just expressing my feeling here, please do not take this the wrong way.

 

Completely agree.

 

Honestly, the based on the recent improvements in some of the most recent routes (rush hour and Harlem), it shows DTG has always had the ability to get proper sounds - even if they can't make the trip themselves, they've just been too lazy to seek third party providers and fall back on their atrocious collection from TS, which absolutely doesn't work when poorly mixed. It's also sad one person/small group (Maik and TSG) can do something like the BR 101 or the G6 and nothing that's been solely DTG even comes close

I think if you know what didn't hit the fan last year and DTG didn't promise to do better, we wouldn't be seeing some of these improvements. The M7A sounds phenomenal (aside from a few minor, pedantic things), the BR 146 was finally fixed after TSW 2 butchered it. I wanna see this train continue (pun intended)

 

AP don't do sound implementation in TSW. They have supplied recorded sound files for packs including the BR Class 465, but the coding, levels and implementation were still done by DTG

 

A lot of the audio editors who engineer at DTG usually amplify their sounds rather than leaving them at the original volume. I urge DTG to make sure their recordings do not use AGC, and to never amplify their sounds. Console and other platforms suffer from volume mixture not working well in UE4. There's probably fixes for that if they contacted other studios, but the quickest fix is probably to just avoid changing the recording so much.

 

Legally not possible.

 

There's nothing illegal about asking, and there's cases where you run into people who have horn/whistle collections, or have connections with museums and smaller railroads who can help.

 

Can you further explain what you mean? I don't see anything wrong with them asking us community. Where did it say you cannot? They did not say we can't share any audio with them

 

Apparently train audio has to be licensed by a railroad company. So a person can't just go in and record sounds of a train unless they are licensed. This i assume is to avoid any potential lawsuits to dtg

 

I think people are getting confused. You're allowed to record train noises (bar announcements) and submit it to DTG, but it HAS to be your own work. It can't be ripped from someone's YouTube video, for example.

Maybe there are additional rules/laws in America but I'm sure you can just do as the above here in the UK.

 

Ah my mistake then

 

I find the SN 313 sounds to be far too quiet in TSW. Especially things like the compressor and resistor fan sounding. Its a loud and clunky train in real life, with lots of wheel flange and brake squeal. Certainly not the sort of train to be quietly riding along as per in TSW.

 

Right thanks londonmidland for answering what i really mean to say. I was going to further explain but you beat me to it lol

 

Second this. I love the 313 - fanatstic little old EMU - but it’s rather quiet. The lack of flange squeel is so painfully obvious when departing Brighton next to a 377.

 

That's true. What they can't use is users who just send them sound files without a paper trail.

 

While that is true, a sound file without a provenance, in writing, is a sound file that DTG doesn't actually know the origin of: all they have is the say-so of the user who sent it in, and I certainly wouldn't want to test that in court.

 

What are the chances though that a railway company or a train manufacturer would take a small company to court for having their train's propulsion sounds in game? I think the odds of that happening are rare to nonresistant to be honest

 

I doubt DTG's lawyers are advising their client "Well, it isn't really legal, but you'd probably get away with it."

 

And I don't think a rail company's lawyers would want to spend lots of money over a video game company using sounds from a non approved source

 

Preface: I'm not a legal expert in any regard, but from what I do understand and previous discussions about this on the forums...

You can't copyright the way something sounds, so it's not that a rail company or vehicle manufacturer would sue for using audio. The source material though is implicitly copyrighted by the individual who did the recording - and that's where DTG needs the paper trail to prove you were the one who did it. It's very easy these days to convert a youtube video to an audio only format and pass it off as your own work. While I doubt most youtubers would care, that's not always the case and some of them may be itching to sue because ~reasons~. And from DTG's perspective, it's not necessarily the lawsuit that's the problem, it's just the court process in general takes a lot of time, money, and resources to deal with. There's also the case, where someone could take the recordings that, for example, Searchlight or AP did a sound pack for TS1, get the raw audio out of their audio pack (which is quite easy to do), and submit that as their own recording - which Searchlight/AP/whoever then has a potential case against DTG (again hypothetical case).
There's also compounded problems when you record voices and other contracted sounds, like station announcements and the like, as those voice actors can't be used because DTG doesn't have a contract with them - and their talent agencies WILL sue.
You can also get into the case where the audio was original recording but the way it was obtained was illegal (like trespassing onto rail property). That doesn't affect the copyright, but DTG then has to make a decision if they want to do business with someone willing to do shady things - which is probably a no.

Thus, DTG needs proof of original source to use it. Mods get away with it because legally (plausible deniability) DTG can say they had no part in it since they don't explicitly allow modding. Other companies can get away with it because either A) they actually are doing it legally, it's just not public, or B) they're a multi-billion dollar company that's not getting tangled up with other multi-billion dollar companies and/or they can afford "small" lawsuits over things like this.

Frankly, it astounds me every time this issue comes up people actively want DTG to commit copyright infringement in order to make the game better. I want the game to be better too, but I want DTG to do it in a way that doesn't have possible severe repercussions. Not only could DTG take a large financial hit, but if DTG were willing to do shady things, that hurts the potential list of brands/TOCs willing to work with the company (which also impacts the ability for DTG to go out and source their own material). Fair use/personal use doesn't apply to a business that's making money

 

Just hear that lovely sound of the train track noise rattling

 

The other problem is that these recordings aren't actually very useful for the development process, a recording from a platform or as a passenger on the train doesn't tell you what the driver is actually doing and what each sound is being caused by.

 

I could fall asleep to those sounds.

 

both of the peps in game are far too quiet

 

I don’t understand why this is the case? There’s literally tonnes of reference material on YouTube of both interior and exterior sounds.

Is it DTG’s headphone equipment, amplifying the sounds, perhaps? So they think it’s loud enough but in fact it isn’t.

 

I know this is your hobbyhorse, but I think you over estimate the amount and volume of running track noise in modern rail traction, given the prevalence of CW rail and soundproofing suspension. " Clickety-clack "is rather old-fashioned these days.
There should be more switch, flange and joint sound though, I agree, especially at low speed approaches to yards and stations.

 

That's what i meant to say, thanks for correcting me, and yes you are right clickety-clack is old fashioned but you know that there is a steam engine and route that is coming soon, so hopefully this route or train will have the clickety-clack sound along with the track noise where when the train is on the railroad, switching track to another junction, and the joint sound.

 

It may just be a sound design decision, wanting to focus on the engine sound rather than the running sounds. I am also one who very much wishes to see improved sounds, expecially to the running sounds, track joints, clickety-clack as described above. I do hope they get some good sounds for the mk1's

 

It should. CW Rail was not common in the UK until the mid 1960's so the " clickety-clack " should be very audible on the Liverpool- Crewe route.

 

Kudos to Rivet though, the sound of the 523 is pretty accurate, and from inside it's absolutely bang on. That low bass rumble with little track noise is typical of Swiss S-Bahns in my experience.

 

It is so easy to do it though. All you have to do is film yourself recording the sound or even better getting the driver or a guard to set up audio recording up on the train itself like DTG did with a route in TS1. It seems to me like DTG want to put up roadblocks to cover their own inaccuracies especially when the solution is there in front of them.

 

Im sure UK rail bye laws prevent recording on railway property for commerical reasons without express permission as its classed as private property. Then theres also possible safety aspect of asking a railway worker in a safety criticial job to take recordings to consider (not sure how strict they are tbh but just guessing).

 

DTG have already done it for TS1. A driver (Birmingham area I think) got in contact and they worked with him and I assume the railway in putting recording equipment all over the train where needed. There was a stream about it somewhere. It was said many real drivers are Train sim fans and were keen to get involved. Once the recording equipment is attached to the train I doubt this touches safety at all, for me it shows what can be done if the will is there.

 

Probably not; but a lawyer who advises his client "it's illegal but what the hell, you won't get caught" is guilty of malpractice.

 

the sounds a passenger hears are not the same a driver hears anyway

 

As if any lawyer would do such a thing.

 

Moving back onto the topic of sounds, I’m worried as to how the complex sounds of Steam Engines will sound.

We already have issues with the near silent EMUs as it is in TSW, so how on earth will Steam trains manage to cope, with all their complex and individual sounds required? The sound channel limit will fill up very, very quickly, so unless they have a new tech or solution, I can’t see this going down too well.

Not only that, but how will they simulate distant sounds of Steam Engines? You can hear them from quite literally miles away in real life, along with the ‘echo’ in sounds they make.

There needs to be a serious upgrade in the way sounds and managed before Spirit of Steam arrives in order for it all to perform and sound right.

 

DTG and its partners do the sound of steam pretty well in TS. It really shouldn't be a problem, but, given the struggles with sound they have in TSW2, you really can't predict.

 

Bossman will prolly fix it in one way or another

 

I wasn’t talking about the recordings themselves, but more about how the (lack of) sounds play, given the current limitations with sound channels within TSW.

 

The title of this thread nails it to the point, because ironicly track and flange sounds were superb on all older locos and rolling stock.

I made a little testing random:

- Class 314, nice flange sounds
- Class 313, not existing flange sounds

- Class 375, proper realistic flange sounds
- Old ECW class 377, proper realistic flange sounds
- new BML 377 / 387, not existing flange sounds

- M3a, not existing flange sounds

- Railpool BR185.6, not existing flange sounds

No words on that. Discussion about stuff again, which were standard years ago on top notch quality. Now i have to beg for please making flange sounds again? Modders cant even make them louder, because the sounds were not implemented at all.

So are we gonna see an update on that?

 

Well i can confirm when the flirt is passing you at speed, it sounds exactly the same as in game. At lower speeds it still needs a bit of a tweak. But yea, rivet is definetly on the good side with the audio and scenery from their new route.

 

Railpool 185.6*

 

However

-Class 465, excessive, annoying flange sounds
-BR 612, excessive, annoying flange sounds

 

I agree and ideally DTG would fix them. In the 465's case is it better the sounds are in or would it be better they were taken out? For me, even though they are OTT, I'd rather they stay in there as we hear very little flange sounds in anything else.

 

Yes the 465 and 612 is on the excessive side, but due the soundfile beeing there a mod can change it or lower the volume if somebody doesnt like it.

But: In the other cases the entire flange sound is missing, so not even a modder has a chance to get this right.

People might disagree with me, but tsw is not improving at all in my opinion, not even the simple basics are implemented anymore. Its a sloppy course, dtg goes with that latley.

 

More like realistic flange sounds

 

I’m pretty disappointed that despite the popularity of this thread, there hasn’t been a single acknowledgement from anyone at DTG saying that they’re at least aware of the issues and are working on improving it.

It feels like a lot of stuff we bring up, as well as recommend, just falls on deaf ears. Here’s another thread highlighting some day one issues with TSW, which still haven’t been fixed or seen to.

It seems the main priority is getting DLCs out as fast as possible, before quickly moving onto the next new thing and forgetting about everything else.

Everything that DTG is pushing out just seems to be increasingly sloppy. Even the pres updates which were delayed for months, which were supposed to be quality controlled checked, have some blazingly obvious issues. Clearly it’s all about ticking checkboxes rather than actually checking to see what’s been done.

Rant over.

 

I'm playing again after a while and I was pretty shocked that the AWS sounds still completely broken on the ECW 377, and not only that, but they carried over to SEHS with the 375... Also noticed the Class 33 AWS sounds and god knows how many others.
I can't even remember all of then, but a lot of german stuff it's also broken right? like PZB sounds. Even the sounds for the air brakes on the CTC-3 cab car from the Boston route are looping apparently, really annoying, and that's relatively new.

 

Here a video of whats missing with the 313 for example (Just in case DTG has no clue what we are talking about):