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Msb: How Do The Banking Jobs Work

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by kalteVollmilch, Feb 25, 2019.

  1. kalteVollmilch

    kalteVollmilch Active Member

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    I'm in need of a little bit help:
    I was trying a banking job from the service mode today (one of those where you get to play the banking loco), and the first part of coupling my loco to the train went well.
    However, I'm not sure how to proceed from this point on:
    when simply waiting for the scheduled departure of my train and the trying to get the train going, it feels like only my banking loco is pushing, but the loco on the front of the train is simply idling (the quiet sound of the front loco supports this feeling).
    So what am I supposed to do to get everything going? Am I supposed to go to the front loco and drive this one? Do I have to set some things up?
    After messing around with the loco remote control.. thingys (the displays with the red on-switch on the left of the cab) and turning those on on both locos, I was not able to release the brake pressure anymore.. So that probably isn't the solution.
    Anyone here who can help me out?
     
  2. Yerolo

    Yerolo Active Member

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    The way I understand it, once the banking loco couples up to the rear that service is effectively finished and to continue on you need to take control of the lead loco, turn on the banking comms and proceed to the summit.

    I havent done this myself yet though but I guess once at the summit as another service it will then uncouple and reverse back to the bottom ready for the next.
     
  3. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    You have to press the Banking Comms button to allow the banker to “listen” to your locomotive.
     
  4. kalteVollmilch

    kalteVollmilch Active Member

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    Yeah, that was exactly what I was not hoping for :(
    I really wanted to drive that rear loco

    Yep, did that, but didn't seem to work.
    I tried that job again, coupling my loco onto the back of the waiting train, and then pressed that button (I referred to this button in my original post as "remote control.. thingys" :D).
    Again it seemed like only my loco was pushing, but the front loco was not pulling. Then proceeded to sneak up the hill at ~60kph
     
  5. Yerolo

    Yerolo Active Member

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    The rear banking loco is not meant to be directly driven, it is controlled from the lead loco and mirrors the inputs when you turn on the banking comms. It is essentially the same as when you have MUs in CSX:HH, you don't actually (or shouldn't) have a driver sitting in the slave engines as they wouldn't really have anything to do.
     
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  6. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    In real life there is. ;)
     
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  7. Yerolo

    Yerolo Active Member

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    Completely depends on the locos being used in RL of course...but most modern locos have MU compatibility with one another. Its only those lacking MU cables on the front which would need to be manned.

    For a distributed MU (ie one loco at the rear as featured in MSB) a radio link is used for remote control
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
  8. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    In the US, the helper locomotives have another engineer inside to control them. The freight cars do not have MU capability.
     
  9. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    The banking locomotives (Schiebelokomotive) on the Spessartrampe are controlled by crew in the cabs both at the front and rear of the train. They use a cab radio system to synchronise their actions to minimise the dynamic forces throughout the train. There is no 'remote control' used.

    TSW doesn't replicate the banking operations in any interesting way as driving from the front is no different to normal, the interesting part is driving the Schiebelok at the rear of the train; So I think DTG missed an opportunity to introduce an interesting challenge.
     
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  10. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    It’s the only way to do it currently.
     
  11. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Not really. DPU's (Distributed Power Units) are a common practice on long trains in North America, which are controlled remotely from the head end via radio. You don't need an engineer in the pusher locomotive. In fact, this capability is modeled in TSW- see the "Powering America" scenario (although, ironically, in real life CSX's AC4400CW's have the hardware but not the software to perform these duties, which are instead handled by GEVO's).

    However, manned helpers do see some limited use over mountain passes, working somewhat similarly to the ones in MSB, including Sand Patch grade.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
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  12. kalteVollmilch

    kalteVollmilch Active Member

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    Sorry to interrupt your discussion here, but in conclusion the way to get this job done is
    - couple to the back of the train
    - switch to the front engine
    - drive the train up the "Spessartrampe" while remote controlling the rear loco

    Thanks for the help, and have fun with your discussion! :)
     
  13. Yerolo

    Yerolo Active Member

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    No worries...as a test I did all of the above but when I went to the lead loco I didn't get any prompt of a service starting and it wouldn't let me board the loco as it was very slowly rolling backwards for some reason.

    I'm guessing it was some kind of bug otherwise...everything I told you was wrong :)
     
  14. kalteVollmilch

    kalteVollmilch Active Member

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    Yeah, once a train is rolling you're not able to enter it anymore. I had the honour of figuring that out in GWE :D
    Maybe I'll find a solutio tomorrow
     
  15. Yerolo

    Yerolo Active Member

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    Figured it out

    Once you couple the banking loco and get the service completion screen...climb back in the loco and switch cabs using (ctrl + / ctrl -) until you're in the lead loco and then it lets you proceed with the hill climb service (just remember to turn on the banking comm in the lead loco)
     
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  16. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Where oh where does one "turn on the banking comm in the lead loco"? I've looked all over the cab and cannot find anything with that label. BTW, I'm attempting to drive the DB83174 service driving a BR185.2 (the only engine I could find that offers a full banking service divided into several services (driving the train to the banking area, driving the banking engine and coupling it to the train, driving the train (lead engine) to the end of the banking area, etc.)
    The Main-Spessart manual only states (most unhelpfully): "Whether you are the driver of the banking locomotive or the freight driver at the front, the process for engaging the banking operation is the same. Once the banking locomotive has coupled, press the Banking COMM button on the cab to engage remote control and then you are ready to go, the other locomotive will now mirror your controls and provide additional power as required."
     
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  17. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Little red button on the very leftmost corner of the leftmost MFD.
     
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  18. Yerolo

    Yerolo Active Member

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    You're right...the manual doesn't actually show you the button on the MFD, but one of the tutorials or scenarios definitely does (can't remember which)
     
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  19. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    If you play the “Fuel Exchange” scenario, it will show you what to do.
     
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  20. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Staff Member

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    Just wanted to drop a quick note into here - in service mode it is definitely possible to drive as the banker, if you start, for example as DB 89109 you'll be sat in a siding. Wait for your train (unless it's already there of course) and you will be given the signal out to the main, change ends and couple up to the rear of the freight train after getting permission from the signaller and confirming the ground signal change. Once coupled, press Banking COMM and you will take control over both locos - so now the lead will slave to your actions on the rear. You can now proceed up the bank. It's more tricky since you need to be consciously aware of what's going on at the front of the train, you are responsible for the whole thing, but overall it works. TSW doesn't mind whether you drive from the front or the rear loco at this point.

    Once you get to the top, uncouple, change ends and you can run back down the ramp to Laufach ready to sit in the siding for your next train.

    The banking services are bunched somewhat together so that if you want to just do the role of the banker for a bit you can bank 4 or 5 services one after the other without much of a wait between them.

    It's not 100% how the banking process works in reality but it works within the tech currently available in the sim.

    Hope this helps.

    Matt.
     
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  21. kalteVollmilch

    kalteVollmilch Active Member

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    Thanks for the reply Matt, I was actually doing the right thing most of the time and not realising it.
    To check, I did the following things:
    1. couple my loco to the back of the train
    2. set reverser to neutral (not sure if this is required, probably not, but whatever)
    3. pressed the banking COMM button, it then showed "On" when hovering the cursor over it
    4. apply the handbrake on the rear loco
    5. set the throttle to 2
    6. now there was some tractive effort shown in the MFD, but the train was not moving (which was exactly what I intended to do)
    7. walked to the front loco, took a look in the MFD: showed exactly the same tractive effort as my rear loco
    -> conclusion: coupling, then pressing banking comm button works as intended

    However, I noticed 2 things which are probably bugs, but that also could just be me:
    • the front loco does not have the right sounds: the fans are just idling, and also the motors don't make any sound (unlike the rear loco, which has fan and motor sound). This way it sounds like the front loco is doing nothing, when in fact, it is pulling.
    • all front locos of AI trains which need a banking loco have the wrong lights applied: not the 3 white lights, but the 2 red lights which indicate the end of a train, rather than the front
    (and btw., are there any shortcuts for switching cabs? "Ctrl" + "-" or "=" didn't do anything)
     
  22. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Don’t apply the handbrake.
     
  23. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    I'll check the Fuel Exchange scenario -- I've run it once, but cannot recall anything about the Banking COMM button. Thanks for the tip.
     
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  24. kalteVollmilch

    kalteVollmilch Active Member

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    I simply applied the Handbrake for testing purposes. That way I could set the throttle to a low value and then walk to the other loco to see if it also applied some throttle without the train driving away. After confirming that both locos applied some throttle I released the handbrake again and the train started accelerating.
     
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  25. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Staff Member

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    You can also use the 3 camera to fly down the other end and even then watch the controls move as you operate them in the real cab.

    CTRL - and CTRL + should move you between active cabs, yes.

    Matt.
     
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  26. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    I found in the fuel exchange scenario the train starts rolling backwards once the banker loco has attached, making me have to apply the handbrakes on the fuel wagons to allow me to climb onboard.
     
  27. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I ran that last night and did not experience anything like that.
     
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  28. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    It happened so Ive experienced it
     
  29. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I am not saying that it didn't happen, when I ran it there were no issues for me.
     
  30. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    Then thats good Micheal if its fine for you, it works here, it happened to me so will report it likewise. If you cant help then dont comment
     
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  31. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    There is no need to be rude about this, I do encourage you to send a support ticket for the issue you have encountered.
     
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  32. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Really no need for this type response. The fact you had the problem but others haven’t is an important tidbit for troubleshooting the problem. And both comments were helpful for others that are reading this thread to know of the situation that may or may not happen.
     
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  33. 37114

    37114 Active Member

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    I spawned on foot to watch it do it’s work at the weekend and just left the game running while I went about my day to see if it would break. 36 hours later and he’s still plodding along and then having a kip in the little siding. Brilliant stuff and yes I know I’m sad. Can’t wait to go mad with the editor. Please hurry!
     
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