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Multiplayer

Discussion in 'Feature Suggestions & Proposals' started by chrisfletch100, Jul 27, 2019.

  1. chrisfletch100

    chrisfletch100 New Member

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    Train Sim World should have a multiplayer option in the main menu for both Xbox and PC. Xbox could be through Xbox live. I hope you consider this as it would make the game more realistic and fun!

    -Chris
     
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  2. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Multiplayer is on their list of things to add into the game, but it is a low priority at this point. The main priority for them is to get the editor up and going first before that happens. When more routes start getting added to the game then they could look a adding in multiplayer down the road.
     
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  3. chrisfletch100

    chrisfletch100 New Member

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    Ah ok thanks for the info. That makes sense. Thanks for the help!
     
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  4. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    How do you see MP working?
     
  5. InspectorTiger

    InspectorTiger Active Member

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    It's not difficult in principle to imagine a multiplayer mode where each player takes over a different train on the timetable. I'm not sure how much fun this would really be, though. As the other train rushes past you in the opposite direction you might see their gamertag hovering above the train to let you know who they are. Beyond that, you wouldn't really have any interaction with them, any more than real train drivers do.

    A co-op mode might be interesting, where one player could be driver and the other secondman (even more so for steam, when it comes). It would certainly be useful for shunting. But would this really be worth the time and effort it takes to implement? (To put it another way, how would DTG be able to charge for this in a way that recoups the development effort?) Would you rather have multiplayer, or new routes and locos?
     
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  6. melvikb76

    melvikb76 New Member

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    Bus simulator has multiplayer and it is a lot of fun,not just seeing your friends driving on your bus routes adding money to the company but also jumping in the same bus checking tickets and generally being silly. Maybe add a conductor role

    I’d love it and it would get some friends into it who wouldn’t usually play this type of game. Confirmed....
     
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  7. jamesibbs

    jamesibbs Member

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    one problem may be the lag as you have to do all the stuff normally which is all ready heavy one the computer but you also have to listen for a request from the server then send the information (position velocity etc) then you have also got to request information from the server (other people, trains they are in, position) there are ways to stream line this (less variables) but that is standard and almost all methods do the requesting from a server (html, pop etc)

    another problem is I am unaware of dovetail having a multi player game so they will have to heavily invest in some infrastructure even if they do it still probably needs to be improved for the increased load of having more games being put on it (if you suggest computer - computer rarther than computer - server - computer for no server there will most likely still need to be a server to store ip of the hoast and the name etc)
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  8. mlouie100

    mlouie100 Active Member

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    I agree and the other player can play the role as the conductor and have control of the doors, check tickets, make announcements, and shout all aboard or blow the whistle to signal the departure
     
  9. Ante

    Ante New Member

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    I really would love that. And the nice thing is, that I have a PC and a PS4. So when a friend is at my house, he can be the conductor and I can be the train driver. Because if there would be 2 PCs I would have problems with Steam. So if multiplayer comes, i want it to be cross-platform.
     
  10. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Active Member

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    Unfortunately, whatever the merits are for multi-player in TSW, I think you are right. Current TSW modules are a struggle to optimise for performance as an "offline" single-player experience, with PS4 and quite powerful PCs. Multiplayer offline would demand double the resources, and multi-player online would treble it, and multi-player online cross-platform would quadruple it. And you wouldn't just need to get physical resources in to do the host - you'd have to ensure that it had a 99.999% uptime. Just check out the UE requirements for multi-player online, compared to what is currently provided in TSW. It would be a total nightmare to implement. VR would be easier....
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  11. jamesibbs

    jamesibbs Member

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    synthetic.angel I would not say it would treble the requirements for online multiplayer It will increase the prossesing amount not as much as offline multiplayer as one computer has to calculate both peoples view, verlocity etc if it was online you could have 2 computer sending small more significant data (mosly position, character and train model in angle pointing, time and verlocity) those are the minimum I can think of required to play (presuming a server handled addresses etc) but there will be more needed as always and it will probably lag ALTHOUGH IT IS POSSIBLE to do it with less lag if you make the other person like an ai train or passenger
     
  12. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    It would only have to send character parameters once at the beginning of the scenario. With regards to the consists these would have to be updated in real time to reflect what the players are doing with their controlled units, so that each machine can work out the impact on the AI caused by these movements, including position and velocity

    I also don't think the processing power requirements would be that much more onerous with two players or maybe a few more. Depends on how the dispatcher is programmed and how it follows each moving consist
     
  13. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Active Member

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    Yes, you are right. Multi-player wouldn't literally treble the processing load on the client-side PC/console. But the physical resources on the server-side would need to be upgraded, by an order of magnitude. And kept running, 24/7. By people. It's a big leap, methinks.

    And DTG would have to test it to make sure that it works.... And if a route is made by a third party, then the third party's work would have to be Quality Assured... by someone that knows what standard needs to be met..

    Strictly on the client-side though, processing requirements would rise. And at the moment the developers are having to choose between making artefacts look a bit more round (polygon count), look a bit more well lit (rays), and/or decide what the LOD (Level of Detail) and draw distance is set to, and make a load of other compromise decisions. And some people (like me) want to see more single-player immersion, atmosphere reflective/lighting effects, and more life (vehicles, lit background scenery, cows mooing...), etc. ;-) I want to see wild horses frolicking in the fields..., and couples kissing under archways (...I am only joking... probably...). ;-)

    If you add in the requirement to wait for multi-player information to be transmitted over the internet and synchronised, then everything slows down, or the LOD needs to be cut back everywhere, to maintain framerates... (uuughhh, I used the word "framerate"....). Anyway. I think multi-player is a long way off, and I would agree with Inspector Tiger, when he says:

    All that said, I would love to see multi-player, but only after everything else has been tested and fixed. Or put another way, if the testing and fixing happens, I would be delighted!
     
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  14. UnlimitedMagic

    UnlimitedMagic Well-Known Member

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    But bus simulator 18 has multiplayer works great
     
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  15. jamesibbs

    jamesibbs Member

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    UnlimitedMagic bus simulator 18 isn't a dovetail game and are a separate company so don't effect any server or computing part

    ARuscoe I am a programmer in free time and was only suggesting a few parameters but also from a server and internet need they would almost have to (as I don't think they have an online multiplayer game) invest hevily into upgrading internet and adding a server for multiplayer (or expanding one) so I was sudggesting more digestable (for the server) bit rates if there are only 10 perameters then it is a lot easier to send than the entire controls besides I was only saying if they did it which is unlikely for the reasons in my first post (not the one you replied to)
     
  16. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Active Member

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    Yes....! Maybe, when the Pacers are added to NTP, they will include a multi-player race out of Leeds! ;-)

    I am just joking.....! ;-D
     
  17. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Me too but mainly websites linked to databases
    Not really, you can get high spec azure space on the cloud for not much money (relatively) and if you charge a nominal fee for the option then they recoup costs. Not that people like to pay for anything nowadays, but it's more than possible.

    The question comes with WHAT commands need to be sent between machines to process at each end. Changes in velocity and an accurate position would seem to be about it for a known path. In fact I would see the load of data being LESS than in say a driving game, mainly because you're working in 1D unless you allow players to change their paths

    My question on MP has always been that for me, TSW is about driving trains, so I don't know how that becomes an interactive effort. Certainly guards, recovery, maintenance etc would be a possible thing but for me the core activity is driving, and zooming past my mate at 250mph closing speed lasts what? a quarter of a second?
     
  18. UnlimitedMagic

    UnlimitedMagic Well-Known Member

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    Yes but if Astragon(Guys who made bus simulator) can make multiplayer flow nicely then dovetail can too.
     
  19. InspectorTiger

    InspectorTiger Active Member

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    So what is the multiplayer interaction in Bus Simulator? How do you interact with other players?
     
  20. jamesibbs

    jamesibbs Member

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    ARuscoe the problem with a 1 D idea is that you would need to know that the points are doing if you have say an x verlocit and position then you don't need to know about the points (would be good for realism but a lot of data for all of the points in one map is a lot (point number (presuming they are labled this way) direction for a minimum of maybe 100 points used or not) compare this to x pos y pos z pos x ver y ver z ver (ver is verlocity) and with 8 players (tracks would get crowded and be blocked if many more on a lot of senarios) it is a significant reduction in data
     
  21. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    What I meant by "1D" is that trains cannot turn, they are limited by the path set for them by the dispatcher, so the main time anything changes is at the dispatcher end by changing points.

    The point of a lot of players is kind of moot in train driving. The whole idea is that a driver ONLY looks at their road, what's going on in their road and what the signals and speeds are on their road. What's going on on other roads (unless it's an incident which might impact their road) is actually not relevant

    So unless the Multiplayer theory here is "who can drive the same route in the same conditions at the same time and come up with the best speed control, most accurate stopping and all to time" you end up with people driving trains that are very quickly not going to see much of each other

    Until steam comes along and then you can have dual working no the footplate

    Personally I don't rate the "be a guard" idea but I know some people do
     
  22. InspectorTiger

    InspectorTiger Active Member

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    Let people who want to be a guard pay for 'Train Guard Simulator'. Multiplayer fundamentally makes no sense for a train driving game, and if you disagree with this, post your fun multiplayer gameplay idea below. (Don't just keep saying "Multiplayer!", it makes you sound like you haven't thought it through properly. See also "Steam!", etc.)
     
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  23. jamesibbs

    jamesibbs Member

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    InspectorTiger I probably won't play the train guard mode if it is a thing but it isn't that far away all they need is an notification thing (like drive to blank) that recognises if doors are open or closed and continues ai driving for a service and basically have it like passenger mode (for a bare bones virstion) and it is called train sim world not train sim driver or something like that and it was also advertised about being a passenger simulator thing as well so it is not just a driving game I accept it probably take some work and recources but it sounds like a nice thing to do and increases replayability
     

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