My Thoughts About The New Dtg Class 60.

They might take notice at the beginning of the process but not with a few weeks of release.
Also DTG will bring out a loco with normal features and charge say £11.99 whereas APs locos have a lot more features and charge £24.99. And APs locos are not just drop it on the track and go as there is a lot more to them for the Advance Players compared with DTG who are making a loco for those that still use simple controls and are not too bothered if the OHLE signs is the wrong type. Different trains for Different Markets

Yes that is why AP trains have all those nice Passengers - because they listen to their customers - NOT

As you are asking DTG for extra features within a month of release why not do the same with AP next time they announce something and see how much notice they take of you.

 

Well it's out now so looks like it was too close to release for anything to be done although the inaccuracies I've seen on here are really small and really won't detract from the function of the loco.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1515060/Train_Simulator_Trainload_BR_Class_60_Loco_AddOn/

Scenarios are for South Wales Coastal.

 

Judging by the 411 which has sold like hot cakes - AP'll no doubt be upping their price to £29.99.

 

I'll wait for Mr Thompson or Matt from OTS to review it. £11.99 is a great price if you ask me... unless it's rubbish, then it's a terrible price.

 

Has anyone found the manual yet? It's usually attached on the right hand side on the steam store page. I'm curious to know whether BMG is mentioned in the credits as from the screenshots it looks most like DTG modelling and texturing. That may tell us whether BMG still have theirs for an AP release potentially.

 

No, they're not. only "Ricardo Rivera"

 

That's the cab it defaults to. There are 2 nameplates "Ben Nevis" and "Florence Nightingale" - all the rest are unnamed. You can change the sector using the loco number in the editor.
Can't comment on the model. Brake sounds are nicked from the Kuju HST. Engine sounds alright (not heard a 60 in a while though so can't really comment on it). TS seems hellbent on crashing atm so can't really record them.

Here's the credits from the manual:

 

Thank you. That clears that up.

 

Functionality is standard for DTG stock, really. Nothing special.

 

I heard the AP411/2 has almost sold out?

 

I don't need the loco at the moment so I will leave it for a future purchase when some more repaints have been done.
I fancy a GBRf version and there are a few different ones

 

Anyone with sense won't bother touching it, it's tragic.

 

I'll try seeing if I can get the AP sound pack to work with it. Not promising anything though as it may not work satisfactorily. For me, at the minute, the only advantage this has over the JT one is the newer model, it's probably got updated physics (dunno though, not gone near the JT one with a very large pole) and workshop compatibility. It's just meh overall.

 

I just bought it. Just waiting for an AP Enhancement Pack. I expect this add-on to get a ton of negative reviews.

Well at least we know its NOT anything from BMG. BMG would never release such a hideous looking 3D model and cartoon textures and the only thing this Class 60 has going for it is the cab interior! That's about it. I have bought it for the sheer purpose of give it a thorough grilling on my let's play that I am going to shuffle and get it on by the weekend!

Another naff add-on and the only reason I bought it is because the silver lining is that at least this thing supports the Steam Workshop. £12 is economical when compared to the high end stuff from AP/BMG and yep. I will be glad to pay £25 or £30 for a superior product that will blow this rushed mish-mash out the water.

I bought it for the purpose of grilling it. I want my subscribers to come to their own conclusions on this tosh. At least I am glad the AP/BMG one is still on hopefully .

Thanks for pointing that out. At least we know this is NOT anything from BMG thank god. If it wasn't for the bugged handling. I would have kept using the JT version as the only thing the DTG 60 has going for it is the cabview looks better but I won't know about the handling until I get in and give it a test drive which I am going to do in a few minutes. Still this Class 60 lookalike will fill the gap until the AP/BMG one comes out which I hope will be later in the year and hopefully Cab 1 will be as the default end like on the Just Trains variant.

All in all folks. Its been a great debate but my feedback is just based on my opinions and feelings towards this add-on and I have to say. DTG rushes out another add-on and drops the ball yet again. I think to be honest. I will only buy routes from them in the future that will only be in the sales and that's if I like the route in general or if I need the base model for an AP Enhancement Pack and I will not buy outside the sales. Companies like this seem to only be interesting in filling their wallet and that is where I am going to hit them as I will NOT be buying anything else outside the sales. I let it slide on the WCML because of this convid fiasco. But not this time. I would rather spend my hard earned money on high quality add-ons from AP, JT and other outlets that put quality ABOVE quantity. DTG's "British Leyland" attitude will bite them back in the long run because their add-ons over the recent years have gotten sloppy and rushed.

 

Why is that?

 

Looks awful, sounds awful and has awful physics, not exactly much more to say...

 

It'll be interesting to see if AP update their Class 60 sound pack to work with this model.

 

They won't, they'll remove it and replace it with an enhancement pack - they'll get more money that way

 

As the AP pack is just a Sound pack it might be possible to modify it to work with this new Class 60.

 

Most of DTG's stuff now they get the help of second and third parties - the Class 60 itself was made by someone external, as were the scenarios. The new German route has signalling developed by someone external too. I'm expecting that they'll stop making new products themselves for TS1 in the next couple years, and only publish 3rd party stuff.

 

Where do you go with Quality.?
The German Dresden - Riesa route has been very well received but this Class 60 has not.

 

So you knew it would be rubbish but brought it anyway because you wanted to see how rubbish it is?

DTG must love that - even people who hate it still buy it...

 

Right folks my grilling of this tosh for an add-on is complete and here is my results. The first let down is that the locomotive is incorrectly orientated and I recommend that Ricardo Rivera should have done some research and perhaps bought the book on Class 60's from Edward Gleed (he could have borrowed my copy if they had asked) as cab number is incorrectly marked as cab number one and vice versa. The second critic is that the train has the wrong era of OHL warning signs as pre-discussed on here. The cab window on the drivers side opens the wrong way round as the opening part is in the middle of the three partitions of the drivers side. Not the back piece. So that's a letdown. The cab is better than the older JT Class 60 because at least we do now have opening cab windows and the courier/conductors side is correct on the cab as that side was never modified unlike the drivers side of the cab. The Sector logos are squished and are too narrow. A quick look on flick would have fixed this and its less than a 10 minute job to do. The sounds. I have mixed feelings on the sounds because I like the horn as its individually controllable. But the engine sounds although the idle is from the MB275T. The Notch 5 sounds are from a VP185 that is used on the HST and as far as I am aware. The Class 60's do not whoosh or scream at high RPM because the turbo is not a low overpass type and is smaller. The power controller should only have one notch that is to the "On" position. After that it should be free moving and movable freely between 10% to 100% at full power. The handling is better though than the JT Class 60 as at lease we can haul a heavy train with the DTG Class 60. However I have covered this in my video that is currently uploading. The scenarios are a joke because if you break the speed limit more than 3 times at line speed. The scenario ends. Excuse me DTG but is this a train simulator or an arcade game? Because to me failing the scenario should only happen upon a SPAD or a derailment. Not something stupid like breaking the speed limit and I will be highlighting this on my review.

So would I recommend. The answer is depends on what you are happy to settle with and if you are a purist like me and have high standards. Personally I wouldn't recommend this add-on for purists and they would be better off waiting for the BMG version. But if you are on a budget and you want to drive a Class 60 that has better handling or need one for AI traffic then get it in the steam sales. Although at a penny under £12. It is cheaper than the older dated Just Trains example that has bad handling. So its a catch 22 situation on this occasion.

Well aye because I nothing better to spend my money on haha. Jokes aside. There is a reason I bought this tosh of an add-on and that its to give it a thorough grilling and to tell people the truth of what to expect .

 

On what evidence do you say there will be a BMG version? It's not in their development plans on their website. Do you have insider information?

It could well be DTG's Class 60 or nothing. What's you view on that?

 

Some people are saying it is the BMG model and was sold to DTG.

 

Why is the Cab "incorrectly orientated"?
Because you are sat in the number two end?
The loco goes both ways and you don't drive from the rear cab - you change ends

I presume you are also going to criticise AP/Wagons because the Class 90 is also set up with number 2 end leading?

 

So you buy an add-on just to slate it that is just odd, I wish I could afford to throw money around like that! I bet you would have been gutted if you had liked it, it wouldn't have fitted in with your pre-conceived prejudices!

 

It seems it is the BMG model, judging by posts in Matt P's personal discord.

 

Ppl would've found something to moan about, like the OHLE stickers.

 

I wonder if some humble pie is on the menu!

 

To be fair and with that ignorant remark. With respect. You clearly haven't read Edward Gleed's book on these Class 60's and I know what I am talking about on this subject! I have a good knowledge of these locomotives and the modeller clearly didn't have the technical or accurate information about the Class 60 at the time it was created. Its blatantly obvious with all the errors there for all to see . If you get the chance. Ask a Class 60 driver mate (I know a few) and they will tell you the same thing and will show you the cab number 1 end which unlike on the Class 59/66/67's. Its the cab nearest to the fans. My upcoming video very much says it all!

As for the Class 90's. I don't know and to be honest for me being a diesel man. I couldn't care less about electric trains. Same with the Class 92's buddy.

It was listed on their development page although having just checked. Its no longer listed and BMG did mention it was put on hold in 2020 because of convid and they could not access the depot or arrange a recording for getting the sounds. Why don't you e-mail them and ask?! .

 

I am sure, I am not particularly interested in it, I have the JT one and hardly use it. But I don't think I would purchase it (or not) on the basis of a review from someone who seemed clear they weren't going to like it on from the beginning.

 

“Is that all? Otherwise everything’s ok?”

(Sorry, can’t help channeling my inner Basil Fawlty!)

 

What does it matter what cab it puts you in, you can turn the loco round in the scenario editor so you are using the "correct" cab? I am going for a lie down!

 

You are thinking about a Real Class 60 which this is not.

So back to the Question "Why is the Cab incorrectly orientated"
What difference does in make in the game?

I would like to know.

 

The cab is only an issue if you are bothered about where the driver avatar is.

If you are driving then it doesn't matter. From an AI perspective, just have cab 2 always front facing.

If you really can't handle AI traffic always having cab 2 leading then the issue is with you not DTG.

 

Its not a matter of disliking it from the get go and personally I don't do petty knocks but I know how things should be and I expect others that know about the real Class 60's to say the same thing. At the end of the day right. I don't always listen to others peoples reviews anyway and went ahead and bought an add-on. The Class 43 LNER HST for example has had a lot of stick and to be honest apart from the bugs in the AWS doing a "bing" noise when going over the armed AWS ramps for lower speed limit area warning boards. Its grand and the 3D models look grand and the sounds are good overall. I have actually recommended this add-on because its a nice train and DTG does get it right every now and again. I have nothing personal against DTG as they have not done anything personal to me. But I say it the way it is and its not my fault that I don't have a brain to mouth filter and I am very candid in my points of view. Blame my Scorpio rising for that.

The point is that (and I have made it clear) that the cabs are incorrectly marked and the default position is the wrong way round unlike on the JT Class 60 that has the correct orientation. Yes I can switch cabs in the game and have done so. But that doesn't remove the fact that the cabs are labeled wrong and the direction is inverted.

I love the sense of humour mate! .

 

That's right. DTG are so perfect and can never do anything wrong mentality. I wish the real world was like this I really do. Its not just the cab that is the problem mate. Look at the squished logos and look at the driver side cab window and tell me what's wrong? Have a wee look at some Class 60's photos mate before coming back to me okay.

 

I finally understand what you are saying having seen that ATS video for the first time.
You are obviously in the number 2 cab - opposite end to the fans but it is labelled number one.

 

Grand. Honestly mate. I wasn't nitpicking at DTG as such but they have access to the majority of the railway companies and should have known this. They are many things that need addressing and I am sure that the Armstrong powerhouse pack will take care of and fix most errors if DTG haven't addressed the driver's side cab window to this. Also the fact of the matter that the information about the Class 60 model being ex-BMG and other saying that the model is made inhouse by DTG themselves isn't helping things. Also back in 1999 when I did work experience on the railway. I used to see them everyday through Nottingham on various freights so they kind of grew on me from there along with the Class 56's and 58's. But that was nearly 22 years ago now though.

 

I've never once said DTG can do no wrong and I can think of plenty that they have done. There are certain DLC that I won't buy cause I know the faults (I don't have the luxury of buying things to prove they are bad).

All I'm saying is that there was a lot of criticism aimed at them before the product came out, and as it transpired you bought it anyway, and a lot of the things you are criticising are to be honest very small pedantic things.

The Duchess of Sutherland DLC where it kept dropping pressure and was unusable unless you downloaded a third party patch, which in turn made the scenarios that came with it unplayable... That is an example of a serious issue with a DLC. The driver being in cab 2 and not cab 1 and it being a slightly inaccurate OHLE warning sticker etc is not that much of an issue. You can always change cabs and if you are in the cab then you won't notice the tiny stickers on the outside.

Now I don't own the DLC and probably never will as I have no interest in the Class 60 (plus I think it is one of the ugliest locomotive BR produced) and I'm not saying there isn't anything wrong with it, but the reasons you are giving some really trivial.

 

Faith is something that many have thrown away here.

 

I wasn't directly addressing that you was mate. It was just the way it was coming over to me as it were the case.

As for the Duchess of Sutherland add-on. I had many frustrating hours with that and the gut wrenching thing about it is that its one of my all time favourite non-GWR trains from the steam period. I gave up even trying to complete the scenarios because I lost power and couldn't get it back no matter how hard I tried mate. Nice model but the bad scripts are the killer bugs for that DLC.

The Class 60 may not be a winner for sporty looks and it does remind me of a Kenworth truck but its legacy that it was the very last UK built locomotive and I would say the most grotesque looking locomotive has to be the Class 70's as they look like something from a star wars program in my opinion .

 

There is a patch for the Duchess - perfectly usable but you'll have to make your own scenarios.

 

Just hope the 60 doesn’t also turn out to have two dead pigeons in the diesel tank

 

Having just watched the ATS review of it, it looks okay to me and decent value for money, I might get it, even the great man himself doesn't think it is bad!

The sounds seem to be the biggest bone of contention but that might be due to the situation we are in and the problems getting recordings.

 

The better quote is "It's not bad as a BASE for £11.99"
In other words once the reskinners, AP etc get hold of it (adding another £20 to the price tag) it might be worth it
He does say it's likely to be consigned to AI for now in his usage

 

Well that is up to him. I only watched the review to get a look at it, I agree the sounds aren't great, the cab looked good though and the exterior decent. I don't get swayed by reviews very often, although there are certain reviewers who if they say a product is bad then I know I should purchase it!

 

This might also be part of the reason we've seen a lack of DLC lately. Without research possible due to COVID and social distancing, it's next to impossible to get the things you need. I am guessing DTG is sitting on some items they are waiting for further research to release, hence why a 2022 version is looking drab at the moment. Wouldn't surprise me to see 2022 bring in a few classic routes, though sales of that will be dependent on how many people already own the routes.