Nec: New York - Trenton Is A Performance Nightmare, Even On High-end Pcs

sounds like it needs a major overhaul / to be reworked from the ground up but I know that would never happen. would require too many resources.

 

Thanks!

I have yet to submit any ratings/reviews, but thinking of going the same route!
I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and hold out for a few more weeks just to see what's fixed and how much better things look by early-mid November.

 

Benefit of the doubt, no, been disappointed too often by DTG. Better to warn customers and when/if it is actually playable, revise my review. A review should reflect the current state - NEVER rely on promises made, and the DLC is not inexpensive.

 

on second thought, this is what I'll be doing. You are 100% correct. No more excuses will be made for them and the flawed content that's constantly shoveled out to us, more specifically the US content.

 

Good point. I would honestly be happy with fewer, better DLCs where Beta testing was public and if a game discount was provided who did the testing. That should be a thing DTG, you'll catch so many more bugs early on rather than doing them after release.

 

Yeah, if it wasn't clear my comment was sarcastically aimed at anyone claiming the issues were with people's hardware when they persist on literally the best CPU/GPU combos on the market.

 

I've only ever tried AM rush hour services on the new timetable so I decided to give the evening rush a go. Hopped into NJT #3961 from NYP - Trenton and it was an even scarier nightmare than what I experienced before. The hitches coming into Newark were 6-8 seconds long (at least), and I got at least 3 of them within a minute. Absolutely foul.

 

Is just so bizarre than on my PC which has more than double the performance my Xbox series X has ,it just the hitching and game freezing makes it unplayable,but yet on my Xbox X it plays 60FPS with little hitchin….below are some video clips from my Xbox series X
https://www.xbox.com/play/media/T5WF8NBN38
https://www.xbox.com/play/media/XTCSZ4QZHH
https://www.xbox.com/play/media/FMPUJH2CCT

 

Well PC has denuvo present right? Which has been known in some games to cause performance degradation.

 

Been following along this thread since it started, I don't have the best rig, especially when it comes to the GPU. Regardless I was also suffering severe multi second freezes that made NYT nearly impossible to play. Glad some things have been found on the back end that may be the source of it. However I found that this command:

nearly eliminated the freezes and stutters completely. There is still some stuttering in rush hour penn which is to be expected (I average roughly 40 fps in there compared to capped 60 everywhere else) but I have been able to mess around on the route everywhere else with only the occasional fps drop. To everyone still having issues I highly recommend putting that command into the advanced launch options. Hopefully we can eventually get the corrupted asset removed and our waiting passengers returned.

for reference my build:
CPU: Ryzen 7 3700x
GPU: EVGA GTX 1660
MOBO: ASUS B550m plus
RAM: 32gb 3600mhz trident Z
SSD: some 2tb Samsung I don't remember the name of

 

cannot even tell you how jealous I am... finished an hour-long run and wanted to pull my hair out lmao. For sure not touching this again until something is done. It's just not worth the frustration lol.

 

this sadly didn't change a thing for me... so weird that it seems to be helping for only some players though.

 

There is no way you do not notice the stuttering since it's massive and everyone with every rig possible will be affected. There is no tweaking or settings that can fix this since there are some broken assets in the route that cause this

While the DX12 parameter makes sense I don't think the others actually do something. Unreal engine 4 might not be perfect but it already uses all the threads it needs under DX12 at least (it might work for DX 9 or 11?) Also the game and CPU itself should set priority to the fasters cores first, slower ones and threads șo it does not need to use all the threads in a low load env like TSW, but use the fastest cores at fastest speed. Also setting priority to high might not do anything since windows is smart enough to to set priority for tasks as needed. Also you no longer have 1-2 CPU cores to force an app to high priority for extra perf.

Just my opinion

 

It was mentioned that DTG now have a German division of sorts with Lukas etc and so they have the depth of understanding of localised systems for UK and Germany. North America is clearly lagging far behind these two and really needs a specialist team. I hope there is some behind the scenes work being done to catch this up. Signalling, safety systems, and general polish and bugginess are lagging way behind UK/Germany content.

 

One of the few advantages of the Xbox (and all consoles) is there is one system with one set of components and they know if they can get it working well on the Series Xs in their office it will work exactly the same on every Series X on earth.

PCs have so much variety in configurations and components that there could be something about your system which doesn’t play well with TSW that nobody would have seen in any testing because they didn’t have that exact machine.

 

In which case maybe DTG or some of the beta testers can specify what PC configurations were used in testing this route. More likely than not given the wide spectrum of PCs that are all suffering, there was no or limited testing done.

 

One would hope there is, and if this is so, why wasn't this done sooner?

I will not buy that for a Dollar, just look at the Xbox threads and its many different issues, the NEC NJT DLC was and had issues when it released with TSW3, there are plenty of posts on here, will have to do a bit of digging. But now it's a TSW4 issue, and still having a hard time figuring things out.

If a recommended CPU, GPU, and memory are met "Not Minimum" or exceeded then the game should run well or better, and porting any game from console to PC is not the greatest idea, and yet it is still being done with many games. At one time it was PC games being ported to console. I do believe therein lies the problem, and when looking at the Xbox threads and PS5 many similar problems to a host of many others. Like the MML-EMT I have not heard nor seen any more posts in that thread other than SHG and DTG are in talks of getting a fix out.

Now there are talks and more head-scratching talks about what to do with NEC NjT and it has more than just stutter/hitche issues. There are many more that have issues but those are for a different thread topic.

 

Even if they did, it is not our job to have the EXACT same hardware as they did in their beta testing. It's like saying the ACS-64 (the real thing) was only tested in Sunnyside yard on shunting duty before it was pushed into public service.

 

Below is feedback I posted about NYT new timetable on another thread. I figured I should post it here.


After playing the NYT new timetable for two weeks on Xbox series X and PC steam, 83 services later, not counting about a dozen which I couldn't finish or the game crashing on me, I think I can give my honest opinion.
The experience was much better in Xbox series X running mostly 60FPS outside Penn station, this was when I was able not have the game crash on me on start up. I stayed mostly off line. Some rush hour service starting a Penn did crash on me. The fix for those was to removed the LIRR layer.

As for PC steam . I was actually getting around 90FPS outside Penn, but the stuttering, game pausing was actually at times unplayable. Seemed to be getting worse as I played more and more. I tried playing off peak service to get better performance. This was even using the -DX12 and the other recommended start ups on steam page. I now for my feedback which I have included many video clips illustrating some of the issues mentioned on this thread.

Pantographs' are working. I have seen numerous ALP46 with both pantographs up, but they are a rare sight. We know about the new bug with AI trains with safety alarms going off. You can hear them as they pass you by.
The PIS on The NJT trains still only displays “train” on most AI trains
The ALP46 trains still has no visible driver
AI NJT trains tail lights still off during service. Sometimes you see a push ALP46 with headlights on as they drive by.
Still many AI trains with doors open while moving, mostly the forward left door on the cab car. Honestly, not seeing as many as before, especially since we have so many more trains.
Interior Lights on all trains still off during the day.
We know about the Passengers which they mention to have a fix incoming.

Signals need to be fix as we know they are causing most of the issues with stuttering and game pausing. Cab signaling is still all over the place. I'm by no means an expert on this but is very frustrating not been able to stay on time while using the safety systems. And no the answer shouldn't be just to turned the safety systems off. The AI don't obey or don't have them implemented as they seemed not affected. Inconsistency, inappropriate progressions , approach limited 45 before Cab Speed 80 between Metropark and Rahway, the phantom drop to Approach Limited 45 between New Brunswick and Edison, progressing all the way down to a restricted aspect upon entering Metropark, only to jump right back to Clear as soon as I made the station stop.The numerous drops in the tunnel approaching NY Penn. The restricted aspect upon entering Trenton. The penalty brakes as you enter Trenton, Newark Penn, Newark airport stations.
Below is an Acela service heading south showing some of the signaling issues just mentioned
https://www.xbox.com/play/media/uzz8MFCa5d
https://www.xbox.com/play/media/e4ipbWLwKH
https://www.xbox.com/play/media/UbaZPH65Zw
https://www.xbox.com/play/media/DCaAh2Ww9s

Players still can't take over ALP46 AI trains outside Penn and Trenton stations. Even using the I’m stuck reset simulation physics” doesn’t work. below are clips demonstrating the issue on several free roam sessions
https://www.xbox.com/play/media/Ta7f7NtVRZ
https://www.xbox.com/play/media/65A3HYGJDF
https://www.xbox.com/play/media/zUemwj7VDG

I’m Amazed that the signaling was able to handle all the new traffic. Specially at Secaucus, Penn station, and sunny side yard
Now about that Sunny side loop. The traffic in that area alone has to be the busiest in the entire game. Is madness.
I don’t know how Joe was able to accomplish this timetable, it feels like a new route. I did simulate a 24-hour timetable (from 3am to 3am) and didn't have any stuck trains. With that said, you do run into issues with some services (like 3222,3950, and many more) that you won't be able to finish do to stuck AI trains in your path. This happens due to the AI trains position is located when you start your service. Some end up stuck behind a signal causing a traffic lock.
A video is from timetable service 3222, you can see the AI train starts at the tunnels stuck behind a clear signal but still never moves.
https://www.xbox.com/play/media/i2UgVBZN88
This is similar to the issues the Harlem line had. Even with all the issues I mentioned I still enjoyed the new timetable. There're many varieties to keep you busy. I hope some of these issues can be fixed to make this route much better experience for all

 

Any news on a fix? Or the fact that this route is unplayable on every PC with Reduced or Normal Timetable does not matter? I have preordered TSW4 when it was announced, and also bought NYT after the new timetable update knowing it had this issues but i was thinking the devs will quickly fix this since its unplayable and cannot be left like this for to long, right???? Wrong!
Seems that Matt and everyone else are finding excuses that pc have lower specs, or you need more ram instead of admitting that the route has some serious problem in TSW4. I have 32 GB ram an RX6700 XT and Ryzen 3600, everything else is smooth as butter only this route is absolutely nightmare.Others with even stronger pc's are also reporting extreme stutter.
I see today an updated was launched that fixed almost nothing, but the huge problem with an unplayable DLC sold a full price is ignored.

After all the hype and pleasure i had withTSW4 i am now completely disappointed by this and especially the trow it under the rug attitude.

 

I thought JD replied here saying that there was no new info, but I don't see anything anymore so maybe it was in another thread I had asked him on accidentally. (I tagged him and asked this past Tuesday).

This entire thing is absolutely ridiculous. Was really looking forward to pumping out content enjoying this new route and new timetable and really thought I'd be praising it to the heavens, but sadly haven't been able to do anything and haven't touched the route since TSW4 was released. Even the reduced timetable is a stuttery, buggy mess. It's actually impossible to enjoy, for what seems to be MOST PC players, even those with high-end builds. Don't understand how this is even still being sold, especially at the full $40 USD...

Edit: I asked him in another thread by accident, but here is the latest on NYT Timetablee.

 

I believe the current working theory is that it's a problem with signalling rather than memory since, as you say, even high-end machines with lots of RAM are having problems.

It doesn't affect everyone. I'm not having problems running NYT myself, though I don't know why.

From what has been posted by the CM's, there is work going on to find a solution. I would expect a patch in the not too distant future.

 

Those responses from the other thread read like “we finally released the timetable update you wanted. We’re focusing on the new TSW now and don’t care much about the previous versions.” So many developers would be concerned with such widespread performance issues with their product that updates and fixes would be out in a matter of days.

The Metrolink route is by far probably my favorite of any route released for the TSW franchise and I fear the day it too gets left in the dust and suffers the same fate as so many other routes and DLC have. There’s like this overwhelming obsession on DTGs part over the roadmap timeline and what’s coming next with little to no mention or acknowledgment of what’s been released already and what needs to be fixed. It was “okay we released it. Here’s more stuff coming you can buy.” Always met with “oh submit a ticket so we can see the issues.” Yeah, where’s that gotten us. And it’s not like there’s not tons of posts on here over the past several weeks detailing all the issues people are experiencing.

 

For the PC players, Have you tried playing NYT after the last patch? Just want to see if you see any difference. Better or worse performance?. At least on PC steam,I notice a performance improvement on my end. Hopefully they will have an official patch that will mention improvements for NYT sooner than later.

 

Nope. Absolutely no change at all. Still just as unplayable as it has been for the past few weeks. :/

 

That sucks. Honestly I’m going to pause for a while and not get any new content for awhile. I know is frustrating not just with NYT but many other routes.

 

Wouldn’t expect Dovetail to fix this anytime soon, or in the near future tbh. Dovetail will most likely come up with some excuse for why it’s taking so long and then announce new U.S content to try and stear us away from older content. Only for it to be soon forgotten

 

I doubt they'll revisit that one. Whether you play it or not doesn't matter as long as you've bought it.

 

Right on the nose! By the time most of us start asking questions and wondering where the fixes are, the next NEC leg will be revealed and they'll expect us to ditch out money and trust them yet once again.

Took long enough for signals to function correctly on Boston Sprinter, and now this. Seems like it takes a new NEC leg in order for the last one to see any improvements, so I won't expect any improvements until something new comes if improvements come at all.

 

Im on an i910900k, 2080ti and 32gb ram.
As a rule of thumb i get between 45and a locked 60fps at 1440p, ultra (except sky) though I do get hitching at times along the marsh bit or whatever it is coming out of penn.

I do wonder with some of these fps queries whose trying to shift 4k setting at ultra and 200%. Own up

 

Late to the game here but it's playable for me with LIRR layers removed. That being said in the 3 services I've done, two of them end up having traffic jams. Not very encouraging. Hopefully it's just the luck of the draw, because otherwise the new schedule is great. It would be nice if we could remove trains in conflict. Would solve a lot of the scheduling problems

 

Even if that were the case, it would present itself just as low FPS, not constant hitching and stuttering.

 

Is there a potential that the new Track Monitor Hud could be causing an issue? That is one difference between TSW3 and TSW4. Now that TSW4 hud is reading the speed limits further ahead than one just one limit, could their be a correlation between ACSES/ATC speeds/signals and the track monitor? Cactusjuice, you mentioned that the signals are being read up to 9 aspects ahead. Do we know how far ahead the speed limits are being read at?

 

That should be an entirely different thing. The 9 signals ahead thing is for the signal dispatcher. That's different than what the HUD is doing.

 

Exactly, it’s so infuriating

 

can you at least remove denuvo from train sim world 2020 2 and 3?
i thought there was also a corrupt assets issue with several routes when will that be fixed

 

I tried playing after the patch and nothing changed unfortunately.

However, when playing during the early hours of the morning it runs without any problems for me, probably because of the few trains that run during this period...

 

DTG were hiring some new staff last month or in August for the US division..... especially for play testing etc

 

Let’s hope this helps when it comes to U.S content.. been needing more people to help solve the mess U.S content has become.

 

Do you have a source for this? It's news to me. ( and I imagine DTG ).

 

god, i hope this is true. cause it’s very much needed. last few US releases were borderline disastrous in my opinion.

 

This is surprising since it comes from you.

I am considering buying it and giving it a run. I believe the performance issues to be true, unlike Midland Mainline where the complaints were not so serious but there were many.

Knowing DTG they will fix it if they can.

 

i don’t know what happened, but after 2-3 weeks of not touching TSW4 or the NYT route AT ALL, I decided to give it a go today to see if anything improved cause i noticed there was a patch. Loaded into the same service with the exact same weather settings from my performance video showing the constant 1-3 second freezes every 10-20 seconds or so (NJT #3821), and now those seem to be completely gone. My frame rate is still about the same at NYP (45-55fps during morning rush hour), and i still get a few stutters here and there. maybe 1 or 2 jitters a minute which is what i’d consider pretty normal as i get this on almost every single route I play.

I have not changed a single thing since when i last played. still the same engine.ini settings (Jetwash Medium Preset from TSC, and running the -DX12 tag in the steam launch settings) The only difference is there was a patch today for TSW4 and my graphics card driver updated this afternoon but before it did, i was on the latest driver available anyways.

I did not see anything in the patch notes today about NYT or signal/dispatcher changes/improvements so i wanna see if anyone else also noticed a significant performance change out of nowhere or if i’m the only one? Was there something pushed in today’s update that could’ve positively impacted performance on this route that wasn’t listed in the patch notes? DTG Matt DTG JD

For anyone else also currently or previously experiencing the constant hitching/freezing, do you mind loading up your game and seeing if you have improvements as well? I’m curious to know if this has anything to do with the new Nvidia GeForce Driver that dropped early afternoon Tuesday.





it’s just actually insane… like if anything it scares me cause i’m worried one day im gonna open my game and it will be like how it was before and i do not want that so im not gonna touch a single setting anywhere for as long as possible lol



i9 9900k 4.5 ghz
64gb ddr4 3600mhz
rtx 2070 8gb
1tb ssd

 

A new patch was released, but it did not include Nec:New York.
The US still seems to be post apocalypse.
Nobody in Nec:NewYork. They have abandoned America...oh my lord.

 

I have definately seen a remarkable improvement of NYT's framerates since the 31.10 update. It is silky smooth for me now on the full timetable

 

I bought, I played for 20 minutes, I got a refund.
Of course I'm on PC and I bought on Steam.
Now, after 6 years (tsw1 -2-3-4) I stopped playing tsw 1 month ago.
TSW4 is a disaster, it is full of bugs, the fluidity of the game is... unacceptable, we are in 2023 almost 2024, I have never seen a game sold with so many problems.
Personally, I went back to this good old tsc, it works quite well even if it has bugs we can at least partly repair it thanks to the editor.
You only have to look at the steam DB figures to realize that tsw4 is in the middle of a crisis (is it going to die?), tsc is still ahead of it by almost double the number of players!!
It's incredible, it should be the opposite, tsw4 should be played more in my opinion.
In short, for me I'm stopping the bullshit with tsw4, I wouldn't buy anything at all, I want a stable and fluid game, if DTG is not capable of doing it then goodbye Mr DTG....

 

Over in TSW3 I managed (after much frustration with the Steam store) to get NYT on Steam as a failsafe against not being able to play it going forward given the mess it is in TSW4 right now, since I have zero confidence this new timetable will ever see the light of day in TSW3 as promised. And I cannot imagine how badly they must have messed it up in TSW4.

Over in the TSW3 version, on a 6600M laptop GPU, in DX12 with a bunch of engine.ini tweaks to support it, after one end to end run that hovered around 40fps, with dips to 25 and CONSTANT stutters (First thing I do with any route is create an end to end run in scenario planner and then load it up, hit the throttle, and go play something else on my second monitor for an hour to compile the shaders), restarting the run with shaders compiled gave me 60-70 all the way through, but still with the odd less frequent or pronounced stutter, because this is still TSW after all.

For TSW4 to have somehow made it run that much worse than this on top quality desktop hardware is truly an achievement.

 

As I said, I don't own TSW4, and given all I'm seeing I feel pretty vindicated in waiting for it to get some decent fixes first, in TSW3 I have this route running as smoothly as TSW gets, so seeing the performance people with higher spec rigs than mine are getting in TSW4 in comparison even after the patch doesn't exactly having me jumping to get it. Indeed, part of me buying it for TSW3 when I did was basically as insurance, so I would have a more performant version should the TSW4 version continue to be a mess.
If I see someone on comparable hardware managing to achieve the same performance in TSW4 that I get in TSW3 I'd consider it, but I am not seeing that yet. I mostly chimed in on this thread in order to keep it bookmarked so I will see updates to it if/when folks do report better TSW4 NYT performance.