1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

New Controller Set Up Suggestion

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Mat_Jam_Ca, Aug 15, 2020.

  1. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    3,604
    Likes Received:
    6,981
    During the live Q&A stream on Friday, 14 August 2020, Matt said that if the community has ideas on how to improve the controller configuration, they are open to suggestions.

    This proposed control scheme is based on the PlayStation 4 controller, but should be fully compatible with the Xbox Controller.

    If you vote no to these controls being better than the existing controls, please explain what you don’t like?

    LCS/RCS = Left/Right Control Stick

    Braking Decrease = L1
    Braking Increase = L2


    Throttle Decrease = R1
    Throttle Increase = R2


    Combined throttle/brake lever...
    Less Throttle/More Brake = R1
    More Throttle/Less Brake = R2


    Zoom In = LCS Up
    Zoom Out = LCS Down


    Look Around = RCS

    External Camera = Click RCS

    Walk Around = LCS

    Sit/Stand = Triangle

    Cancel/Back/Alerter/SIFA/PZB Acknowledge = Circle

    Contact Signaller = Hold Circle

    Interact = X

    Switch Brake (?) = Square

    Horn/Whistle High = Hold X, LCS Up
    Horn/Whistle Low = Hold X, LCS Down


    AFB Decrease = Hold X, R1
    AFB Increase = Hold X, R2


    Open/Close Left Doors = D Pad Left
    Open/Close Right Doors = D Pad Right

    Gear Up = D Pad Up
    Gear Down = D Pad Down

    Reverser = Hold X, D Pad Up
    Reverser = Hold X, D Pad Down


    PZB End/Release = Hold X, D Pad Left
    PZB Override = Hold X, D Pad Right


    Buttons not mentioned such as for the Map, Schedule, Pause Menu etc would remain the same.

    I don’t know what ‘Switching Brake’ means for the square button so I don’t know how important this function is in the game. I don’t think I’ve ever used it in TSW 2020 so it may be a new function in TSW 2.

    The current controller map has the reverser and gear selection assigned to the same D Pad buttons. As these are two completely different functions, I don’t know how these work separately in TSW 2, this is why I’ve suggested holding X to switch between the gearing and the reverser.

    This controller set up would free up the Click LCS function. I’m not sure what could be substituted here - maybe Tempomat On/Off?

    I have considered mobility and accessibility and limited the holding of the X button. Where the X button is held, it should be relatively easy and accessible to operate the AFB and PZB Controls.

    I don’t think any button on the controller should toggle hud/marker features. As these are not used regularly, they should be strictly limited to the settings menu.

    Functions like wipers and headlights are not mapped as these are usually use once features. As weather is not dynamic, if you need the wipers at the start of the run, you’ll need them throughout. Once headlights are switched on, they can be left.

    The aim of this controller layout is to maximise the functions on the controller so 100% attention can be given to the rails/signals ahead. In real life, a driver should not be expected to take his/her eyes away from the windscreen and neither should we.

    I’m fairly confident these controls would be intuitive after a little practice.

    I hope DTG Protagonist and TrainSim-Matt can do what needs to be done internally to give this controller configuration some serious and careful consideration. If nothing else, this set up could be included as a Type B configuration option as an alternative to the current set up.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
    • Like Like x 5
  2. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    3,990
    Likes Received:
    9,861
    I like it. I can’t see any conflicts in it and everything is covered once the train is set up. Because of the use of button combinations I think this, and any other controller scheme using such, would need to be an option. There are downsides to button combinations, especially when the ‘hold this’ in the combination is always the same, such as when you are using a button combination for one function but want to use a single button press for something else simultaneously. As I said, I can’t see any such conflicts in your scheme though.

    ‘Switch brake‘ with the square button is when you cycle through the brake types of the train - train brake, direct brake, electric brake etc.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    3,604
    Likes Received:
    6,981
    I hope it’s a control scheme that can be given serious consideration. I really want AFB and PZB to be part of the control functions on the controller and holding X (on PS4), which when just pressed, is used to interact should definitely mean no conflict with other functions.

    I know holding X to manipulate switches currently exists in game, which suggests that holding a button is not a major limitation, but my proposed function would work when not interacting with a specific element and just looking out the windscreen or a blank area of the desk (basically anywhere you are not interacting with a control).

    Holding X on the controller and operating R1/R2, D Pad L/R and LCS is also quite comfortable requiring little or no contortion to operate.

    Fingers crossed it’s also something that can be added to the game quite quickly - even if as a test configuration so players can test it and see if they value the added functionality. I also think it includes everything needed to operate existing trains in TSW 2020 and TSW 2.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    3,604
    Likes Received:
    6,981
    Come on console guys. Let’s get a discussion going about the controls. Whilst never guaranteed, the more feedback DTG get, the more likely they are to do something?
    1. Do you like the controls I’ve suggested? The new ones I’ve suggested are coloured pink.
    2. If not, what don’t you like about them?
    3. Is anything missing you’d like to see implemented?
    4. Do you have any controller suggestions yourself?
    I really want AFB/PZB/Low and High Horn/Whistle as part of the controls, but DTG are unlikely to do this if only I want it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  5. ehrenholt

    ehrenholt Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2020
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    165
    Love it, one change I'd make is one the reverser is in Forwards, then the gears are unlocked, or have a button to press to transfer from reverser to gears. After all we only have the 101 as a geared DMU
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  6. ehrenholt

    ehrenholt Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2020
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    165
    A return to lap button for the 101 would be welcome too, so would an AFB toggle switch
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2018
    Messages:
    690
    Likes Received:
    738
    I agree.
    Arguably, I would have even voted for using the D Pad Up/Down for the horns, but never thought about the use of holding the X button. Nice idea
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    3,604
    Likes Received:
    6,981
    As the Square Button on PS4 toggles the different types of brakes by a single press, the Square button could also be held to access additional functions.

    For example:

    AFB On/Off = Hold Square, LCS Clicked

    SIFA/Alerter On/Off = Hold Square, LCS Up

    PZB On/Off = Hold Square, LCS Down

    Cycle Headlights = Hold Square, D Pad Up

    Cycle Wipers = Hold Square, D Pad Down

    Cycle Cab Lights = Hold Square, D Pad Left

    Cycle Passenger Lights = Hold Square, D Pad Right
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    3,604
    Likes Received:
    6,981
    I don’t think that holding the X or Square Buttons on PS4 or their equivalent on Xbox would cause to much issue in terms of accessibility. If accessibility is a concern, the existing control scheme could be retained and the new functions I’m proposing could be added as a secondary control option like you get in games such as Resident Evil etc.

    I‘m not a programmer, but I couldn’t see this taking too much time to implement as you’re just telling the game that if X is held and R2 is pressed, AFB target speed increases etc.

    For those that want it, DTG could add a third control option which would allow players to customise their own set up, whilst allowing button combinations to be held in order to access features.
     
  10. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    3,990
    Likes Received:
    9,861
    That fits nicely as the square button is a button for cycling through a set of controls and holding it provides options for cycling through other controls. Although this is squeezing a lot of extra functions into the new controller setup it is doing it in a logical way which could easily be learnt. I like this whole setup a lot.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    3,604
    Likes Received:
    6,981
    The lights and wipers don’t necessarily have to be added to the controller, but for quick, easy access they could be, as well as SIFA On/Off, PZB On/Off.

    I’ve given this a lot of thought and I think this would give console players everything they need at their fingertips. It’d certainly take a little bit of practice, but I think the controls I’ve suggested are definitely intuitive.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    3,604
    Likes Received:
    6,981
    I’ve just realised that sand will be an important controller function with the new adhesion physics.

    This could be accessed as follows:

    Sand = Hold X, L1
     
  13. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    846
    Likes Received:
    4,555
    It's an interesting idea - however, if you are going to use a button as a shift, you either have to remove its current functionality OR accept some degree of confusion.

    E.g. if X for interact is used for the shift key then we must assume we cannot lose the funciton of that key it's quite important - that leaves us with doubling up essentially. So - if you are looking at a control of some sort (window blind or whatever) and you press and hold X you are "grabbing onto" that controller, if you then use the LCS up and down you are moving that controller. So you can't remove that. The only way X works as a shift is if you say that it only works if you are NOT on an active controller at the time, i.e. looking out the front window.

    The square button - that's a pretty essential button for some players, particularly americans. The UK you'd use it for switching between loco brake and train brake, in the US throw in dynamics too on that list. In Germany it's often all blended so you dont need to worry BUT it's there if you want it PLUS the direct brake is also selectable with it. So you can't remove the square button's functions. You could "overload" it to do the shift button if another control moves while it's down and then only action the square button on RELEASE of the button if it didn't get used to shift another control. That might work.

    I'll have a think, good ideas though, thanks for sharing.

    Matt.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  14. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    3,604
    Likes Received:
    6,981
    Thanks very much for taking the time to have a look at my suggestion. I appreciate it’s probably not as straightforward as I would hope, but hopefully the missing features, AFB Up/Down, Sand, Whistle High/Low and PZB release/override can be incorporated in some way. I accept a keyboard can be used to add these features at our fingertips, but it would be super cool and more convenient for them to be mapped to the control pad somehow :love:.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2020
  15. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    3,604
    Likes Received:
    6,981
    TrainSim-Matt

    Giving this some extra thought, my understanding is that TRIANGLE on the PS4 controller and the equivalent on the Xbox controller is only used to sit/stand and to climb on to platforms or into cabs.

    As such, the TRIANGLE button could become the controller shift key.

    Instead of using it to sit, the SQUARE button (or Xbox equivalent) could be used to sit. Once sat, the SQUARE button (or Xbox equivalent) can still be used to toggle through the brake types using a single press. Then, when it is time to stand, you press and hold SQUARE for two seconds.

    The SQUARE button can also be used to climb on to platforms or to get into a train cab.

    This would leave the X button (or Xbox equivalent) to do what it has always done.

    By holding TRIANGLE (or the Xbox equivalent) you could add secondary functions to the L1, L2, R1, R2, LCS Up/Down, RCS Up/Down, LCS Click, RCS Click, D-Pad Up/Down/Left/Right, Touchpad and Option buttons, potentially allowing the controller to control an additional 16 features. The secondary features could be limited to AFB on/off increase/decrease, PZB on/off release/override, SIFA on/off, Horn high/low and sand so that people who don’t use these features aren’t having to use the secondary button map often if at all.

    I really do think this will be the solution to enabling increased functionality from the controller and as you’ve said in your streams that you tend to use the controller over the keyboard, you would certainly benefit from the secondary functions on the controller too.

    I’m really quite passionate about the game controller and how this could be given hugely increased functionality in TSW 2. I hope it’s more food for thought.
     

Share This Page