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*new Teaser*

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by 66050, Jun 5, 2020.

  1. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Plus - will they fix the Class 47.... or just try and dump it in the old tunnels next to Standedge.........? ;-O
     
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  2. SaMa1

    SaMa1 Member

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    Just for little background information: Epic, the developing company of the Unreal Engine, has lately pumped millions and millions to develop and deeply optimize the UE4 engine for making their mobile version of Fortnite more performance friendly. This core development of the engine should be very visible in performance of the TSW2 aswell.
     
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  3. NAYDOG

    NAYDOG Guest

    it literally answers this in the Q&A - your content will be preserved, not remastered.
     
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  4. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes I’d forgotten about that in all the excitement. We well surely find out when the Class 20 comes out.
     
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  5. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    Lol ikr? 3 brand new routes, editor for livery/scenario creations, CSX HH on consoles, ICE route, London Underground Bakerloo line, working adhesion and dynamic weather, new “immersion” features such as the ability to hide the HUD on controllers for consoles, new menu options, whoo, this is a lot my head hurts now, lol!
     
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  6. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Wait, 3 brand new routes? I only saw 2, what?
     
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  7. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Cor - you can't please some people. Next you'll be saying that the Bakerloo line is only 14 miles long......

    .......and that most of that is in tunnels......... ;-O


    **runs and hides in a deep nuclear-bomb-proof bunker**
     
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  8. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    For consoles it’s 3 new routes, since we’re getting SAND PATCH FOR THE FIRST TIME!! The other 2 are, well, new addons for everyone, London Underground Bakerloo line and a new ICE route, based round Koln or so.
     
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  9. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Keep complaining all you want, it's a nice, solid 50 minute drive and it provides a unique metro system experience. While it isn't something I'd buy on its own, I will certainly have fun with it as part of the base package.
     
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  10. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    I can’t stop staring at the announcement page and be like: “this is my dream come true!” I can’t wait for it!!:D
     
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  11. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    Wait, u all know what I just realized? TSW 2 and the announcement “teaser” pic, it all matches! The yellow and blue for CSX on consoles, Red for London Underground, and gray for, well, the ICE letter colors!:D
     
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  12. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    So it did tease the new routes after all;)
     
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  13. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I am not complaining.... the Bakerloo Line - with 25 stations - that is an awesome route. I will absolutely love it.... but I can see that some (not you) will complain about the length... by default....

    It should be a super aggressive drive, requiring mega accuracy, to a 15 or 30 second timetable.... a proper challenge. Immersive. Atmospheric. Maybe the Jubilee line would be tougher (you have to line up with platform doors)... but this collection is absolutely fine by me.....
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
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  14. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    No mention of P.I.S. / Announcements - hopefully we'll eventually see this in TSW2 sooner rather than later if it's not in initial release
     
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  15. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    They might have taken the P.I.S. in the first TSW, but I am sure that we'll get the P.I.S. given back to us all with announcements on the Bakerloo Line.

    "Mind...... The.... Gap......"
     
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  16. Lombra

    Lombra Active Member

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    Normally I would agree, and be extremely disappointed that they chose to throw away all that Train Sim World was and all the content that people have invested in... but the fact that all existing content will carry over to the new game wholly redeems the situation, in my opinion. So effectively, you need only purchase the new route pack in order to "upgrade" all your stuff. Seems reasonable to me. The only way I can really make out a negative in this is if you weren't planning on ever buying any new routes from now on.
     
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  17. Deebz__

    Deebz__ Active Member

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    Guys, stop and take a look at what they are selling for a moment. Here is the complete, underwhelming list of new features, minus the new routes:

    Scenario Planner
    In-game Livery Designer
    Adhesion Physics
    Preserved Collection for Add-Ons
    New Dovetail Live features including Driver Logbook, Online Debriefs and Railfan Shots
    Immersion Features


    Here's the real catch that seems to be going over most people's heads though:

    Preserved Collection for Add-Ons

    What does this actually mean? Well, in their words:
    The preservation work may bring some performance benefits depending on your platform, but they will be as they are now. Preserved not remastered.

    In other words, this is how they are telling us that they will no longer support older addons. All those old bugs that haven't ever been fixed? Yeah, they still won't be. Perhaps with the exception of CSX:HH bugs.

    Dovetail is scamming you. This is absolutely inexcusable.
     
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  18. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    They're telling you exactly what will and won't work, what date from and how they're doing it
    How does that read "scam"? Usually scammers tell you everything's fine and nothing's going to happen and then you find your bank account empty
     
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  19. Deebz__

    Deebz__ Active Member

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    Right, where have they done this before... didn't they mention something about an editor and multiplayer being promised features for the original TSW, in a video they have now unlisted from youtube? Now they are selling a typical yearly update as a new game, regurgitating the same unfulfilled promises from the original game, while simultaneously using it as an excuse to never fix bugs with old content...

     
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  20. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    So, from your reduced list, I'd want all of these:

    - Scenario Planner
    - In-game Livery Designer
    - Adhesion Physics
    - Preserved Collection for Add-Ons
    - Immersion Features



    And I am not that bothered about these:

    -> New Dovetail Live features including Driver Logbook, Online Debriefs and Railfan Shots


    Looks good to me. Looks like a winner. Bearing in mind what people thought we were getting as "TSW 2021".... DTG have effectively under-promised and actually massively over-delivered. They have exceeded expectations and pulled out a real blinder - a super-fluffy bunny from the hat of magic. CSX on console. London Underground line. High Speed ICE. None of these were really expected - three cherries on top of a loverly cake.

    I am actually mega-surprised. But they did it. And if they can polish off the magic trick by fixing the Class 47 in TSW before they release the Class 20... well.... then that would be ultra-fabulous...... ;-)
     
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  21. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The features they've listed means they have moved to a newer version of the game engine. Variable adhesion was taken out of the old version by UE
    I'm pretty sure that charging for major updates is done by all software houses...

    Not excusing poor bug management and issue resolution in the past, but you're basically saying that any new software has to not only be free, but they have to update every route and loco for free forever. That's an untenable business model for most companies. The only ones I can think who are anywhere close are microsoft with windows 10 and the reason there is they stopped making money on windows years ago, relying on subscriptions on office products and data mining from onedrive (don't count apple as they software kill their older models after a few years)
     
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  22. Deebz__

    Deebz__ Active Member

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    Ok. So you want some basic editors where you can create your own things, but not share those things, or use what other people make. You also want wheel slip physics, some hud/control tweaks, and you want Dovetail to tell you they are no longer going to fix old bugs, while wording it as a positive thing...

    Sure, some of those things would be nice in an update to Train Sim World. Selling it as an entirely new game though? That is absolutely inexcusable, especially since they are simultaneously using it as an excuse to no longer support old content.
     
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  23. Deebz__

    Deebz__ Active Member

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    The good old excuse of "it's the engine's fault, not ours". I'll believe that when I see it. Current TSW runs on UE4.16. I wonder which version we'll see when this new paid update drops.

    Considering the poor state of some of the addons they release, yes, I absolutely expect them to fix bugs and deliver on what the promised. Dovetail is in no position to be defended in this way. They need to stand by their products far better than they currently do if they are to deserve any sort of leeway here.
     
  24. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    This is the bit that I couldn't find in the announcement. Where did you get this from.....? What gives you the idea that they will drop support for TSW DLCs....?

    From my perspective, they obviously must fix existing bugs in TSW, especially the Class 47, for example, which is a major bug that is nearly two years old. Especially if they continue to sell them - although this doesn't matter, as having a pus-ridden scar like a two year-old bug with the Class 47 will take a long time to heal and fade away from memory.... and that's even if they get around to treating the still weeping-wound anytime soon.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
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  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Agreed they need to up their game. But saying they need to support their addons in perpetuity is nonsense.
     
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  26. Deebz__

    Deebz__ Active Member

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    From their FAQ site:

    Will Preserved Collection Add-Ons be upgraded?
    The preservation work may bring some performance benefits depending on your platform, but they will be as they are now. Preserved not remastered.
     
  27. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    Epic is already hard at work working on Unreal Engine 5. You can even see Dovetail acknowledge this on their FAQ on TSW2 where they mention under the label "What about UE5?":

    "We are so happy that this is now in the public domain and it vindicates our decision five years ago to build our hobby on the UE4 platform. It’s a perfect engine for simulation and that will only continue. We are not announcing anything for UE5 yet, but the next few years are going to be very exciting."

    Whether this means including these advancements into TSW2 or possibly in TSW3/whatever their marketing team decides to label the future installment of TSW is another matter, and whether it means the routes in TSW2 will be supported or labeled under "Preserved Collection" is a different story.
     
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  28. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    True - but they should get them into shape... at some point in the DLC life-cycle, preferably before they go on sale.... and then lock them down when they work....
     
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  29. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    *sigh* I mean, it COULD be read as never fixing bugs, but I don't think so. After all, they weren't fixing bugs already for a while now- as utterly annoying as it is that one forum member continously brings it up, the class 47 is a good example of this. They don't need an excuse.

    All I read that as is that these routes won't be compatible with newer features and higher detail. They won't be rebuilt from the ground up, just ported in. And that doesn't rule out future bugfixes.

    I think overall it's going to be similar to the "TS Classic" line of ptoducts for the otihinal train simulator. Not as well supported just because they're older, but not completely forgotten about either.

    As for the other complaint that they're selling us what thwy promised already again, I'm sure there will be a didcount of some kind and it won't be quite as bad as it sounds.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
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  30. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I take this to mean that TSW DLCs will not have TSW 2 features applied to them. And I am okay with that. (Although not everyone will be...).

    But where there are outstanding issues with current TSW DLCs within the current TSW - then these should obviously be fixed. They should be fixed right now. And if they still happen to be present after TSW 2 is released, then they should still be fixed, to match the original TSW specification. They are outstanding bugs.

    I think that they intend to do this....?
     
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  31. Deebz__

    Deebz__ Active Member

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    Well they didn't do this last year for existing customers (with a Complete My Collection feature), which stirred some controversy. Maybe that plays a part in why they are calling this update a brand new game. How can people complain about not having a discount if it's a new product, after all? Did they discount TSW for existing TS2017 customers? Hell no, in fact they made you order a special version of TS2017 just to get the beta of TSW. :D


    Well, keep telling yourself that then. I'm still waiting for the ATC bugs in NEC to be fixed, after... how many years now?
     
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  32. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Guys, I just looked back through the announcement. Have any of you seen a 1972 stock with the number 3300. I sure as hell haven't, hopefully that's fixed by release.
     
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  33. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    What's wrong with ATC on NEC...? Let me know, and I will have a look at it (I only have NEC on PS4). And if it is really bad... then... um... I will add it to my list for... um..... exposure...... um.... illumination.... so to speak... ;-)
     
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  34. Deebz__

    Deebz__ Active Member

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    The tunnels to Penn will restrict you to 20 MPH, when you should be allowed to go 60 MPH. You gotta turn off ATC to drive this section properly.

    That's only one issue with this route though. Last time I played this game a few weeks ago, I had to give up on a freight scenario in this route because the brakes were bugged on somehow. Zero pressure in the brake pipes, no handbrakes along the entire length of the train were on... believe me, I checked everything. I set the brakes to full application and off again, everything. The train was stuck, unmoving on a hill, with no brakes on. Not just me either, I looked it up and that happened to others too. Even happened to Matt on a stream, but he was lucky enough to have the bug go away after setting brakes to full and off.

    Also love how you sometimes need to open the doors on the wrong side of the train in this route too, in Penn again. Also had this happen in GWR. Not only does it look ridiculous, but if you are watching the environment instead of the HUD like you should be, you'll be stopped at that station for quite a long time before your realize it.

    I could go on and on if I wanted to...
     
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  35. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Give me a specific service with a fault - and I will take a look.
     
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  36. Deebz__

    Deebz__ Active Member

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    Any service that goes through those tunnels will get you the ATC issue. Just make sure it's turned on.

    Don't remember the names of the scenario and service with those other two issues I mentioned (bit hard to check since I have now uninstalled this game). The freight scenario was the one where you couple a few consists together and take it up north. The service was some cab car service. Oh yeah, that same cab car service also had permanent red lights which prevented me from leaving the station. :D Seeing as I am a player and not a beta tester, I did not bother noting down which service it was, but I think it was one of them around 5 PM or so. The train started with the platform on the left, but ofc I had to open the right doors...
     
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  37. pablomikel.izaguirre.m

    pablomikel.izaguirre.m Member

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    I have to say, your predictions were surprisingly accurate.
     
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  38. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Okay...... - well... if I randomly come across these faults at some point in the future, then I will think about it. If I had a specific service to look at it, then I would look at it very soon. So without a reference module.... it might well take a while......

    BTW - it doesn't surprise me that NEC still has existing faults (major ones). Some of them only came to the surface late last year, as some people were trying to get the TSW platinum.... Some of the faults were utterly horrific - including modules that wouldn't even load (they crashed on initialisation), proving the complete lack of testing of the modules.

    It is always worth fixing these faults - as often content (including scripting, etc.) will be lifted from old content and put into new content - so if you know your old content is clean, then it gives you better confidence going forward.
     
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  39. Lombra

    Lombra Active Member

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    You mean as opposed to the current situation, where old content receives great support?
    Case in point.

    Of course Dovetail needs to provide better support for their products, but now you're making it sound like everything is suddenly going to change with the release of TSW2. This is besides the fact that it doesn't actually say anywhere that they're dropping support for old routes. It clearly says they're not going to get upgraded/remastered. Exactly like how older routes are missing certain features that some of the newer routes already have.
     
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  40. Deebz__

    Deebz__ Active Member

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    Certainly reads like they are officially giving themselves a reason to not fix stuff then. Why go back and fix legacy content after all.

    Yeah though, sad to say they already suck at supporting their products.
     
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  41. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Again, what software company does? Makes them no money to do so
     
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  42. Deebz__

    Deebz__ Active Member

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    Again, with the abysmal quality and high amount of bugs with the stuff they release, they have no leeway to be defended like that. They need to stand by their products and fix the long standing bugs with them.

    Believe it or not, I have held off on buying several things from DTG after reading about bugs in those addons. I would have bought them if they actually cared, and fixed stuff when needed. They do not, so I have avoided buying stuff that I would have otherwise bought. I’m sure many others can say the same.
     
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  43. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    So have I. From several companies (for instance I stopped playing assassins creed after the whole "nobody has faces" incident.
    The question is whether TSW2 brings new things to the proceedings that routes based on the old UE engine could not. There may be a reason they cannot fully port over old routes and assets. They may still fix things going forward
    May, may, may

    But generally I tend to look forward and let old stuff die. I've got thousands of pounds of old mobiles sitting in drawers and certainly don't expect apple or samsung to fix the holes in the software
     
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  44. Lombra

    Lombra Active Member

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    To be fair, this is certainly not unheard of. The developers of Euro Truck Simulator, IL-2 Sturmovik and No Man's Sky comes to mind. The former two takes great care of their products, while also selling new content. No Man's Sky has received numerous major updates since its release years ago, without a single additional source of income. (related to the game) I've no idea how they manage to stay afloat.
     
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  45. Deebz__

    Deebz__ Active Member

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    Quite simple, people (such as myself) go and buy the game when we see that it’s actually good now.
     
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  46. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I must admit, I get utterly perplexed with what kind of QA could possibly exist that results in anyone accepting the number 3300 on the front, but also 0033 on the side... and then not questioning whether that is right or wrong. It's not the end of the world... but it is the sort of thing that jumps out at you and says "We spent literally zero seconds checking this over."

    It's weird because it probably took dozens, or even hundreds of hours of meticulous research and design work to get the model built. And then, just before committing to publish the first image... nobody could be bothered at all to spend even five seconds looking at lt.

    **baffled**
     
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  47. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    Deebz, I want you to go on and on. Seriously. There are pinned posts in each forum where I'm gathering outstanding issues. Post your list in one of those and they will be addressed. No, I didn't say fixed, I said addressed. In each case you will get a concrete response of whether they are slated to be improved or fixed, or whether they are not. We want no ambiguity moving forward, and we've been heavily ambiguous to date, so that's ending.

    Your level of distrust is understandable, and I do not refute the allegations you've made with regard to features that were spoken of for TSW1 that did not materialise. We're working to improve on the ambiguity, to provide solid information and not work on "possibly" or "maybe". That is a process that has already started, and the FAQ provides good insight not into what might happen, but what will. The subsequent Q&A this Thursday should fill in more gaps still. Between now and launch we aim to leave nobody in any doubt as to what is coming and when.

    I get that you're angry, but if you could moderate your tone a little it would be appreciated and will serve your cause better.
     
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  48. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    It's easily done. Really easy.

    1. Was testing for consistency in numbering in the test plan before this happened?
    2. Are the two numbers pretty easy to mix up?

    Also consider how many people who've played it simply have not noticed...

    This doesn't excuse it, but humans are fallible, and what you're describing here doesn't sound like it would normally be tested for (although you can bet it is in future).
     
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  49. Deebz__

    Deebz__ Active Member

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    Protagonist, if the higher ups who call the shots at Dovetail were as stand-up as you appear to be, I feel like this franchise would be in a much better place. You have my respect.

    You'll have to understand though that based on how Dovetail has operated over the past decade, I have no reason to believe that anything will suddenly change in regards to bugs getting fixed. As you have said, they will be addressed... but frankly, this is not good enough. More communication is great, but it must go along with a higher standard of quality with Dovetail's products. Otherwise, reporting bugs is a bit of a waste of time if all we’ll get is explanations on why they won’t be fixed. I know this is out of your control as a community manager though, so I mean no ill will towards you.

    Honestly though, learning that TSW will need to be repurchased in order to continue getting updates has turned me off completely from this franchise, and Dovetail as a whole. Unless there is a sudden 180 on Thursday which states that existing customers will get the core features of this update for free, which has ALWAYS been the case for past yearly refreshes of this franchise and of TS1, I will no longer be supporting this company. Frankly though, even if there is a 180, this is something I will not forget as a customer.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
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  50. arapajoe3

    arapajoe3 Member

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    So we who have tsw2020 have to buy the new game? or is tsw2020 upgraded to tsw2? they create another game being tsw full of bugs ... they abandon it and force them to buy another one ... I am already hallucinating with this ... DGT here you have one less client if so. well they didn't care, I think. I hope you win a lot of money with all the players of this game taking out a new game every so often so that we have to buy a new one and millions of DLCs, and whats about tsw2020?bye bye

    by the way thanks for those promises in tsw of the editor and all that I am forgotten ... you have already shown us that instead of updating TSW2020, you update it by changing the name and saying "new game" what a shame ... to trust on you next time ...HAHA
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020

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