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*new Teaser*

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by 66050, Jun 5, 2020.

  1. Mr T

    Mr T Well-Known Member

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    I thought of a couple more questions while I've been pondering all things TSW 2. At least one of them was kind of hinted at / asked in an earlier post:

    - Why do you need TSW 2 in order to update SimuGraph and do the fancy things you want to do? I wouldn't have thought the Unreal version was holding you back in TSW 1 but I'm happy to be wrong (I'm not a UE expert, after all). Is it to do with how the TSW 1 game was written to start with perhaps?

    - Do the changes in TSW 2 mean that UE can be more easily upgraded in the future without having to say go to a TSW 3 or 4 etc.? or should we expect this kind of change to be regular in years to come?

    - From the Q&A it would appear we won't see a full UE editor for TSW 2 in the near future. Is it something DTG will still endeavour to pursue despite the setbacks? Personally, I don't care how complicated it is but then I have an IT background and others won't.

    Edit: Oops, I just saw the thread about not asking any more questions.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
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  2. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    Well my excitement definitely went :o:):love::Dlol!
     
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  3. Bakerloo

    Bakerloo Member

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    When I found out that TSW would include the Bakerloo line I got super excited.

    Like you, I'm keen to know whether a) we actually get the whole route; b) whether the WCML route will have a AI trains running on it. I'd be so happy if both were the case
     
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  4. xpert2036

    xpert2036 Guest

    Have you played TSW the best thing about it is the AI trains
     
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  5. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone know where the ICE route is going to? Steam seems to say Köln - Aachen but both cities have multiple stations and I can’t seem to work out which ones we’ll be getting.
     
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  6. Bakerloo

    Bakerloo Member

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    Yes. Love the AI trains in TSW
     
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  7. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Think about the ones you really want it to be... probably not those. :D
     
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  8. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    It starts from Cologne.... and it heads off into the direction of a rainbow. When you can no longer see the rainbow... you have arrived at your destination.

    This might be at Aachen (about 70km). But it might also be Cologne West (about 700m). We will find out soon enough. ;-)
     
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  9. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    My god there are some negative people since TSW 2 was announced..

    It feels like us who are happy about it are in the minority.
     
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  10. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    They were here before the TSW2 announcement... trust me
     
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  11. xpert2036

    xpert2036 Guest

    Thats very much true
     
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  12. xpert2036

    xpert2036 Guest

    Yep
     
  13. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I was only joking. I think TSW 2 (and the package of routes offered), will be awesome. I am especially looking forward to the Bakerloo Line - assuming that the tunnels won't just be an unreflective matte black,,,, or indeed, Standedge netherworldy.... It has the potential to be extremely immersive and atmospheric, if they get it right with the lighting, sounds, and station design.

    CSX: HH will be especially welcome on console, if it includes all of the original voice-acting. (I have dipped into it on PC). And the ICE looks fab - and I think it is being paired with the Talent for commuter services.
     
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  14. xpert2036

    xpert2036 Guest

    We all know you were joking
     
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  15. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    Oh I’ve seen it but since the announcement they seem to have been out in force.
     
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  16. xpert2036

    xpert2036 Guest

    Exactly they are just going to harass people that say it's a good game
     
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  17. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Go back to any announcement. They were there. The bigger the announcement the bigger the naysayer swell
    Hopefully DTG "get it right" this time and we can get on with driving trains...
     
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  18. xpert2036

    xpert2036 Guest

    The m3,Lirr,mp15dc many more of these announcements
     
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  19. SaMa1

    SaMa1 Member

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    I agree that the TSW content should be coded in a way that an possible engine update has minimal effect. Since UE5 will allow all kind of 3D geometry import without that much consideration for optimization and texturing, this will lead to reduction in 3D modeling costs. This is something the DTG is most likely aiming for. For this transition the Unreal Engine 5 FAQ from Epic states "We’re designing for forward compatibility, so you can get started with next-gen development now in UE4 and move your projects to UE5 when ready. " Most probably this means the version UE4.25 and since TSW1 is 4.16 they need to remedy that first.
     
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  20. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I’ve found that complaining about what things aren’t is pointless. “This bicycle’s not a speedboat” type complaints are common on the forum. People expect too much, especially when they are being sold a bicycle, at bicycle prices and continually complain that the bicycle they’ve bought isn’t the speedboat they want or think that they were promised.
     
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  21. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    I agree that complaints are okay if you want to influence the final product, but if you're just here to complain endlessly without offering any feedback nobody will take you seriously anymore. I'll be honest, I didn't really like TSW that much, but I'm hoping that TSW 2 will fix the problems the original TSW had. TSW's lack of features seems to have been corrected with the new game, so if TSW 2 comes out with better polish and quality I'll be happy. The people who complain incessantly probably won't even give the game a fair chance. I know TSW 2 looks awfully similar to TSW but I try to look on the bright side (for once) since the two new routes would cost $60 alone if they were for TSW, so you're basically buying two routes for (probably) cheaper than they'd usually go as well as an improved version of TSW. I think that's a pretty good deal.
     
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  22. xpert2036

    xpert2036 Guest

    That's right if you just keep on spamming without saying anything else people aren't going to talk to you it's one of the forums rules
     
  23. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    I was somewhat disappointed with the announcement and fall into the camp that is of the opinion that it should be treated as an upgrade with the option to purchase the new DLC's.

    My reasons behind this are:
    1. I already have Sand Patch Grade, so why should I need to purchase it again?
    2. I'm not a fan of the German routes, so I'd be buying a DLC I have no interest in.
    3. I'm not a fan of the Underground routes either, I prefer scenery to tunnels, so again I would be buying a DLC i have no interest in.
    4 The scenario editor appears to be little more than the Quick drive feature in TS, DTG's own words are "Quick Drive Your Way".
    5 The livery editor sounded promising until I read that it was non shareable. Therefore it's of no use to me because I'm as creative as a rock, but I have made use of the workshop in TS where people have been able to share and I have benefited from their creativity.

    However, there are still 8 weeks before TSW 2 drops, so I will be watching, listening and reading what DTG have to say about it before I decide whether or not I will be stood in line to download it as soon as it is available.

    I'm not going to get all moist in the nether regions over a couple of alleged screenshots. Screenshots as we all know can quite easily be manipulated to make them look wonderful. Once we start seeing some actual in game footage, not some specially made promo video that has the "Not actual in game footage" disclaimer hidden discreetly where it can't be seen, then I'll judge how good it looks.

    DTG, in my opinion haven't been transparent or entirely honest about things in the past, however since DTG Protagonist has adopted the CM role it does feel like things have become a little bit more open. He's not been afraid to say "no" as opposed to the persistent "no news" we were getting beforehand.

    So let's see what this evening brings to begin with!
     
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  24. xpert2036

    xpert2036 Guest

    Yeah I agree with your opinion but we will have to see what will happen & colonel failure/sam/protagonist isn't afraid that people are talking horrible about DTG & he is very responsive about things
     
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  25. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    We're very optimistic that this evening's stream will be a good demonstration of intent.
     
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  26. xpert2036

    xpert2036 Guest

    That's right
     
  27. xpert2036

    xpert2036 Guest

    But is it at 12pm est?
     
  28. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    This is what I mean, you have legitimate reason to criticize. You're not just complaining about the product because you don't like it. This exemplifies what I meant when I said some criticism is good.
     
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  29. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    It's at 3pm EST if I'm not mistaken. I see we're in the same boat of it not being this evening but rather this afternoon.
     
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  30. xpert2036

    xpert2036 Guest

    More convenient
     
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  31. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.
     
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  32. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    You have an option. Don't purchase it at all until you can buy DLC you want. You're not being forced to get TSW2 and they haven't said they're force upgrading from TSW1 so you can continue with that product as long as you wish
     
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  33. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Firstly, if you are going to quote my post, quote the whole post or at least the full sentence, rather than a portion of it which fits your narrative.
    Secondly, no one has suggested that anyone is being forced into buying anything.
    Thirdly, if you took the time to read all of it you would have seen that I said, I remained open to what information was made available prior to release before making a decision on whether or not to buy it.
     
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  34. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I always read all of the posts I respond to and then generally only quote the salient part.
    If someone wants to read the whole thing in their own time, that's what the up arrow next to the quote is for.
     
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  35. Deebz__

    Deebz__ Active Member

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    You watch that stream tonight? They have now confirmed that old routes will not be upgraded in any way. They are collecting feedback on bugs, but have zero intention of acting on that feedback. Matt quite literally said as much. There will also be no discount, as confirmed by moderators in the stream's comment.

    And Dovetail still expects people to support them... hats off to Sam at least, he had no problem showing us that TSW2 is a total waste of money. If only more people at Dovetail were like him. Maybe they would think "You know, the way we operate is pretty bad. We need to improve". Sadly, the people who ultimately make the decisions about what they sell seem to have no regard for their customers.
     
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  36. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    Definitely. I also got the impression that Matt was quite embarrassed about having to be the one to front it all up and actually be honest. Deep down he probably knows that what’s going on isn’t right, to put it mildly.
     
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  37. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I don't think this is true.

    They will not be "upgrading" the original TSW routes and rolling stock... to TSW 2 spec....... but they will be maintaining them - that is the impression that I get, and I would very much welcome clarification from DTG Protagonist on this - since he made the call to collect all of the issues and bugs.
     
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  38. Deebz__

    Deebz__ Active Member

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    They stated that old routes will not be worked on anymore. They also stated that even though they ARE collecting feedback, they have no plans to actually do anything with it. Not even joking, go re-watch the stream.


    He certainly did look uncomfortable, like he had been dreading this stream all day up to that point. Have to wonder if that is why Dimitri left, because he just could not support what the company is doing.
     
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  39. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Active Member

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    Having just watched the stream, really really pleased about the Scenario Planner, although I’m already thinking of some limitations.

    However, what disappointed me was Matt P, this a new product, he should be really excited about its production and it’s release, and he just didn’t seem bothered or excited, I’m not usually a critic of DTG at all, but Matt just didn’t seem bothered about this major development in terms of Train Simulation.

    It feels like DTG have had no option but to go with TSW2, after finding out that TSW is so limited they’ve taken it as far as they go.

    It was nice to see plenty of honesty at least, but there was a lot more of “no”, “no you can’t do this” which again makes me feel that TSW 2 will still have its limitations. Can you have thunder and lightning? “No” fair play for the honesty but it’s just seems like there’s still far too many limitations in the game.
     
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  40. Deebz__

    Deebz__ Active Member

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    Well no kidding, I wouldn't be thrilled either if I were in his position. This is not a major new development in train simulation. This is a ripoff to customers. I saw absolutely zero reason why this has to be a new game, as opposed to an update to the current game. They are out for money, not innovation or quality. Seriously man, don't be fooled. Matt certainly seemed to know how it truly was, and it isn't hard for us to see it either.
     
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  41. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    That is not the impression that I got. I think the context of that was TSW -> TSW 2.

    If you are right... that there will be no further maintenance of the existing TSW DLC... (at the TSW spec) then that is a truly massive decision that requires clarification - because those DLCs are still on sale... and therefore they must be supported.
     
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  42. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Matt Specifically stated no updates to TSW2020 content once TSW2 is released
     
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  43. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I do, but then I have done some software development and know switching game engines is a lot more work than people seem to think
     
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  44. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yep - and the context for that was updates to TSW 2. At no point did he say that the existing DLC would be frozen in a bug-ridden state, if there are existing bugs.

    They do not intend to withdraw the TSW DLC from sale and cease support for those products.

    If there is to be no maintenance work done on existing DLCs, then why would DTG Protagonist ask for all of the TSW bugs and issues to be reported - what would have been the point of doing that....? Why would they completely waste everyone's tme.....?
     
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  45. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    16:14 - 16:35 in the video...
     
  46. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Dunno... I try not to think of the why, only that they did indeed ask for a list of bugs only to seemingly already have ruled out fixing them in the current software. They even confirmed later in the video that the issue of sunlight coming through cab roofs will exist in NEW DLC in TSW2
     
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  47. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Well, having watched tonight's proceedings, I personally haven't seen anything that has squashed my original doubts or concerns.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
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  48. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Somehow didn't think it would given your previous stance. The answers were honest but honestly will disappoint a lot of people
     
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  49. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Okay - I see your point, and how you could interpret that part of the stream (at 16:15) in that way. This needs urgent clarification - because it would be completely unacceptable to shut down all maintenance of existing software.... and continue to sell it.

    We need an answer from DTG Protagonist - and if the answer is that absolutely no support will be given to maintain existing published products that are currently on sale... well... then further enquiries might become necessary.

    If you are correct then all of the existing DLC will need to be clearly marketed as "completely unsupported", or be withdrawn from sale - immediately.
     
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  50. Deebz__

    Deebz__ Active Member

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    Eh, it's upgrading to a new version of the same engine. Still some work involved, but not the same as switching engines entirely. Still, it seems pretty clear that one of the reasons they are selling this as a new game is to give themselves an official excuse to no longer support older content. Yes, I know they already basically did not support older content anyway, but still.

    A way to generate hype, make more money, and a way to officially not waste development resources on old stuff anymore. Great idea on paper. Terrible idea when they actually realize that their customers aren't idiots, and can see right through this. Based on a good chunk of the reactions people seem to have to this new game, this will be more of a blow to DTG than anything.
     
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