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Newbie Deleting This Game Immediately. Read Why.

Discussion in 'Xbox One' started by dennisgcarrier, Mar 10, 2020.

  1. dennisgcarrier

    dennisgcarrier New Member

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    Playing on Xbox One I sat through the tutorial and chose a route. Then I stepped off the platform accidentally and was trapped between the platforms on the tracks. I walked around for like 15 minutes up and down the tracks looking for a way back up to make it to my objective. No dice. There is no way up. There is no controller function to jump or climb. NO steps. No ramp. And seemingly the only option to get out of it was to re-start the game. I thought, well that really sucks! They won't even let me get on the train and they have a hopeless trap set up for me right at the start of my experience. What kind of deal is that? It seems like a way to alienate a player immediately and that's exactly what it did to me. I immediately deleted the game from my account and was thankful that I got it with a Game Pass subscription. I would have been fuming mad if I had paid full price. There is no excuse for developers to put a trap like that in a game. It's about as dumb a thing as I can think of for the aformentioned reason. It will make people quit right away. I mean, give a set of steps, people. Or at least a controller function to climb like every modern RPG in existence. You morons.
     
  2. GothicMatt

    GothicMatt Active Member

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    There are steps if you look hard enough and you can climb up the steps onto the platform, plus there are ramps where you can get back on to the platform
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
  3. Hordriss

    Hordriss New Member

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    Not to mention in most cases the slope at the end of the platform.
     
  4. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Well - as others have mentioned, the problem that you have described isn't as bad as you think... or it is extremely unlikely.... There are always climbing points, and ramps, etc. I have put in quite a few hours on TSW, and I have only discovered one walking trap (I ended up on the wrong side of a fence after jumping off a train from quite a height), but I managed to get out of it eventually, and I wasn't able to reproduce the trap later.

    However - I don't blame you for not persisting. The overall impression given by the TSW UI and initial directed gameplay (Intros and Scenarios) when starting with the game would basically shatter the confidence of most average users. You could very quickly reach the point where you could imagine that nothing would work, or that it is not worth trying. This is something that the developers simply do not understand - or perhaps even care about - because they just want to get to the simulation bit - as do most die-hard fans of the genre.

    Also - the developers appear to have absolutely no idea what it is like to come to TSW without the "benefit" of fifteen years of previous experience using keyboards to play train simulator software - and they are not prepared to start thinking it afresh for hundreds of millions of potentially new customers on consoles that have zero experience, because so far they have been able to scrape along and just aboout survive, and that's apparently good enough for them. Of course, this means that the majority of the user-base is getting older, and will die off eventually.

    But if you like trains - then you should persist with TSW - because it is worth it. And TSW is currently best in class, for authentic train driving games. And if you were bothered enough to sign up and post on these Forums, then there is a chance that you are still interested - so stick with it, as I think most people (generally, from the general population) would get some fun out of TSW, even if it is a struggle to reach that point for most people, given the shocking UI and tutorial quality.
     
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  5. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    If you like the idea of train sims, you should definitely give it another go. There's a whole world of other UI failures, poorly implemented 'features', glitched Achievements and functionality bugs to explore. And hidden deep below them, there's a decent bit of simulation with some quite nice train models. :)
     
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  6. Hordriss

    Hordriss New Member

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    It is definitely worth persisting.

    I'm fresh into train sims as well, and am having my own share of issues getting into various aspects of it, but once the various aspects click I am enjoying it.
     
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  7. -PjM-

    -PjM- Well-Known Member

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    To be fair to Dennis the climb up points aren't mentioned in the tutorials. Perhaps to help out new users they should be. Plus a few other things!

    However if you do try again dennisgcarrier - spaced along the track facing edges of each platform are little extensions which if you don't know about them can be easily missed. You can walk up to them and press Y to climb up.

    But steps ain't one of them. :)
     
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  8. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I could be tempted to write a user-friendly manual for TSW, but I have two rather large research/writing projects that are getting in the way at the moment - plus, I don't really want to write a guide to a game with a broken UI, because it is difficult to be upbeat about it... and because so much of the current functionality doesn't make any sense at all... How would you describe the achievements/trophies... for example...?

    Anyway - I might propose a collaboratively drafted work-in-progress "live" manual..... but the killer for PS4 players (and I assume XBox players)... is that the game itself doesn't even link to a manual. And no part of the buying process involves seeing a manual. Some of the tutorials tell you there is a manual, but don't say where it can be found.... So I wouldn't even propose building a manual with a distributed editorial load (almost an extreme-edited version of Forum advice)... if there isn't a link to it from the PS4. There'd be absolutely no point.

    Maybe this guy will it fix it all:

    https://dovetailgames.com/vacancies/assistant-technical-designer

    ... or maybe she will have enough on her plate fixing bugs.... to worry about writing stuff...... ;-O
     
  9. -PjM-

    -PjM- Well-Known Member

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    Yes the lack of direct access to a manual for what is at heart quite a complex simulation as always been my bugbear. They are after all trying to aim for a more mass market product than previously so should allow for this*. It's quite daunting for someone just dipping their toes into the hobby for the first time, as this thread shows. And that's just the platform steps! I've been playing it for quite some time and I still keep learning things. Sometimes by accident!

    It doesn't need links they should be included and be viewable on the menus. There should be an overall game manual and then further individual manuals for each route (and loco if dlc). They could be updated if required as the game gets patched. Maps and timetables wouldn't go amiss either.

    * I think maybe they are slightly stuck in their PC ways. Perhaps they should recruit a console specific person/team.

    I don't think many would have the hard drive space. :D ;)
    (Well done, you didn't mention the 155. And NO don't mention it now! :))
     
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  10. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I didn't mention the 155 because it wasn't relevant.... The OP is an XBox player*.... And, I shall refrain from mentioning the broken DB BR 155 on RSN on PS4 here as well, because a much more relevant thread, on the new HRR route, has just opened up.... ;-D

    Anyway - I agree with everythng you have said. It's crazy that route maps are not available from within the UI - they even have the artwork ready to go... in various formats. Timetables would not be a priority for me... but you are right - a link to a manual isn't really enough - they need to be embedded in the UI.

    I don't think that this is just a TS20xx PC habit... although I think that is part of it - as on a PC you can just tab through Windows/applications and files/folders and call up a map, the history of the line on Wikipedia, grab the manual, and order a pizza (or a MacDonald's, if you don't fancy a ride on the 155 bus to Chatham High Street).

    .... I think there is a genuine problem with the arcane way they have designed the UI, and the way it plugs in/with the route DLC, and communicates with it, and indeed certain features, like the in-game map, and the HUDs.... it's like they are all distinctively different programs running.... Each DLC is also a completely different game - and not necessarily built to any common standard... so the bit in a check-list about including a manual would soon go wrong... because there is no such check-list...

    *Anyway - it will be interesting to see how DTG handle the rush of people trying out TSW through the XBox Game Pass, as a speculative taster (compared to a considered purchase).... - I wonder if the DTG Support Team have even given this a thought......(!! ?? !!).... even for a second - this is potentially a completely different customer base coming in - so..... can they handle it....? Can DTG retain any of these customers....?
     
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  11. -PjM-

    -PjM- Well-Known Member

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    Off topic, sort of. But what happens if someone buys an extra route/loco but later cancels their game pass. I'm presuming they would then lose access to the route/loco. It'd be the same if it was on PS Plus I'd think. I wonder if DTG have thought about that!

    I don't know about the 155 bus it's the number 47 I have problems with. It's never on time.
     
  12. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    If your Game Pass is canceled/expired, you'll still have to pay for the base game no matter what. Game Pass is more of a "try the game first before buying it" kind of a deal (which includes a discount price during it's stay) and pretty sure DTG is well aware of what the game pass can and can't do as Microsoft's the one that puts some of the games onto the pass until removed from the pass.
     
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  13. liamlikesviolin

    liamlikesviolin Member

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    Well said!
     
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  14. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws New Member

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    As a new user and a person who suffered teething problems myself I eventually found that the best way forward with TSW was to completely skip the tutorials (because they throw way too much instantly forgettable information at you) and concentrate on the timetables instead. The trains are pre-started, only require minimal effort (which you can easily trial and error) to get them moving, and once they are on the go you get considerably more time to manage the basics of the train you're driving.
    I've only had the game a few months and although i'm still in the process of learning the main thing is that I can still enjoy the accessibility of the timetables without an absolute need to know what every single button does. All that can come when i'm good and ready to move on to the more technical aspects of TSW.

    But the singlemost important thing for me is that by doing what I did TSW has evolved from a potential sale on ebay to a game that I have invested almost 100 hours into as well as further investing in two DLC's. If it worked for me then I see no reason why it won't work for others.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
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  15. BLRy

    BLRy Member

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    I too am new to this, only 4 weeks on xBox1, and have experienced some of the same frustrations. No booklet with the game, no legend of symbols, no explanation of things, I had to figure out on my own that switches needed to be manually thrown (either on the route map or on the ground) after a few route misses and derails, there is a lot that is just "not there" as a reference for new players to consult. Often times labouring to figure out what needs to be done to effect a certain required outcome. Like the platform extensions that can be used to climb up. And the fact that walking is just walking - no option to run or jump was a bit of a stunner. Unlike the traditional console games where the booklet is your reference and there are in game checks and legends and the walking functions include running, squatting, jumping, &c to assist in game play.

    However, with this said, I do still enjoy the game (except for my recent train building stuck in F07-1 that has me absolutely stumped) as I am a die hard train guy and this game is something I wish I had found years ago. It's a great game on multiple platforms, I am sure these conflicts will be resolved at some point, but I agree with the general consensus, a manual or guide needs to be available to console users, and perhaps some console specific tweeks to fit in with typical console gaming.
     
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  16. -PjM-

    -PjM- Well-Known Member

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    BLRy - A few things. The switches (points) can also be changed from the drivers seat by using the free cam and "flying" over to them, makes it easier. You can also couple/uncouple this way too. And for running, well faster walking actually, press the R2 button (trigger?) while moving. Squatting is L3. No jumping though. :)

    And manuals can be found HERE
     
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  17. BLRy

    BLRy Member

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    Cool thanks for that link. I found the manual for my platform and version. That answers a few questions. As did you. ;)
     
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