Wow, everytime I come back to the TSW forums I feel as if DTG/Focus have reached a new low. Same price too, no Estimation for when or if there'll be a fix either smh.
And to think, 8th gen players have been paying full price for DLC forever and getting less included compared to 9th gen/PC and they aren't beating down Dovetail's door for any discounts. And yes, I know they can upgrade to a newer console and get the missing stuff unlocked, but that's not free that's £400 or $699aud to upgrade their console just to get the rest of their "free" stuff. If Dovetail offer a discount on PS5/Xbox for S-bahn and then the timetable is updated to parity in 1/2/3 weeks/months time, would anyone who got a discount for reduced content then be willing to pay a "top up" to make the amount they paid equal to PC players? Should 8th gen players also receive a discount on DLC that is reduced as they would need to pay several hundred dollars/pounds in order to get those inclusions. I'm just confused as to why discounts for reduced content is such a big deal, when it didn't seem to be so when it was only an 8th gen issue? Genuinely curious and not taking the Micky, it's just not making sense to me at all.
I think the angry mob are only caring about the timetable issue because it's effecting them, that thing called the human condition has shown countless times from history that as long as someone gets what they want, they don't care if anyone else doesn't get what they wanted......
So then what is the service count for consoles then? Youre saying im wrong the entire time and i start to think you did not read my original post, did you?
You shouldn’t still be gaming and expecting progress on a 12 year old gaming machine that’s why. Dtg have kept that generation in the loop because they felt they could keep that portion of the market. But by goodness how long do you expect to be supported? 15 years? 20 years? The difference is that consoles users on the LATEST devices can’t run the latest releases properly. Gen 8 couldn’t run them because of genuine hardware limitations.
I’ll break it down for you. Frankfurt s bahn has been made to imitate a busy commuter route. The game is designed to utilise your dlc in order to maximise the routes, it’s one of the hooks of the game. More dlc more layers. Dtg have designed a route with a timetable as close as to the real thing. But here’s the kicker. Rather than you not seeing layers because you don’t own the content, you aren’t seeing them because of how the route has been built. So your investment is sitting on the sidelines. That’s the system dovetail have invested in and the players also. I have a pc btw, I’m not just console. But I have both platforms and enjoy couch playing to relax and it makes me angry when stuff is cut because of tech debt that everyone apart from krusty nuggets has been banging on about for years.
I part watched one of the Ambassador streams yesterday (the Aussie guy, forget his YT handle) who is normally fairly pro DTG but even he seemed utterly fed up with the two tier situation which has emerged around this route. Mind I would suggest to DTG if they want to lose anything out of the timetable should be those dreary runs with the ancient 143 and even more dreary Dosto cab cars. I cannot believe the route author(s) made those the first proper (as opposed to the tedious Training Centre, let’s all switch the rainbow track markers off because DTG insist on switching them back on) runs. If anything those cab cars have less tactile feedback than the awful 1442 in Rapid Transit. They should have used the stock from BBO.
I know all this. Thats why i wrote here some days ago that i share the same view on the situation, even as a PC only i understand the frustration. My only point was that the price cannot be reduced that much imo, because the TT isnt the only factor for the pricing. Even though i wont gain much from it, i also hope the console memory update will make enough of a difference so the full TT can be playable on console too. I hope i made my point clear.
Watch them take a year to release the full timetable on consoles and they keep saying ohh we found this and found that but don’t actually fix anything it’s weird knowing I can run some of the most intense and big games with no problems but one tsw route is where that’s this problem
I'm a xbone series X person, I don't have the full fat timetable, I still don't really care to be totally honest, in the scale of things to be bothered about this barely registers in life......
Question for those wanting discounts: if Dovetail offer a discount on S-bahn for 9th gen, would you be happy for the work to stop on fixing the timetable. As you'd have paid the "fair price" for it? Or if dovetail offer a reduced price for the reduced timetable, to make it fair, and then the timetable is updated in a months time so both PC and PS/Xbox are the same. Will you be prepared to pay a small fee then so that the price you paid is the same as PC, to make it fair? Otherwise, in that rare example, 9th gen players would be getting the same thing cheaper than PC players and the problem then moves to PC players paying "more for the exact same thing"
Why should console players pay more for less? Because at the end of the day, that's what it is. We're paying more for less.
I answered this in another thread. Yes I would if the price was the difference. (Say discount would have been 20%, I would have paid the £6 to get the full timetable when it releases)
Paying less as in a complete discount om console till the full timetable is added sounds fair to me, and I've completely abandoned console for PC atp. You're just suddenly getting less for the same price out of nowhere, and that shouldn't be acceptable at all. It's the acceptance of a lack of optimization and shortcomings that will inevitably degrade the TSW franchise further. If this becomes the norm, someday it'll be where only people with the mythical RTX 5090 and 80 something gigs of RAM will be able to play with full timetables. On 8th gen, it's understandable. But for 9th gen? No. DTG needs to seriously get a grip on performance issues, as this is by far one of the most extreme examples of development shortcomings. We don't even have a 10th gen console yet. Slightly reminds me of the Crysis meme.
PC. 1000+ PLAYABLE services + AI ones - £29.99 Console. 600 PLAYABLE services. No layers. NO AI SERVICES - £29.99. The math isn't hard to work out...
Looks to me like paying the same for less rather than ...which was my point. There was another claim made that 600 is "almost half" of 1000, talking of different math rules. If people want to be taken seriously, this isn't the way.
It's really simple if you look on it on an economic way. The economic rule is the ratio between the content and the price. So by a more worse ratio, the relative price per content is higher by 40 %.
when you factor in the AI services, it does roughly equate to half though. They didn't give the number of AI services, but one can assume it's at least 200. But I'm glad you agree that DTG are charging console players unfairly
Exactly. Especially with the empty big train stations on consoles there is a big loss in authenticity. And that's the core of a simulation. Not the the other nice graphic things, that let the data space explode.
Just wait for the GWE remaster they are up to over 2000 services, so guess what route will be an utter blurry texture mess when it comes out. And there will no way to play the old version unless you reinstall TSW4 since it is a remaster. Unless they cut layers out which they have already said if necessary they will on consoles. So if your on 9th gen get ready for more cut back stuff in the future. Next we will lose the Pendolino and 350 traffic from the ATS route.
That will be annoying, but the remaster is free so complaining is redundant. But the excuse they used for Frankfurt won't apply. GWE isn't a complex route. And Paddington isn't a track nightmare
Kindly don't put words in my mouth. That's no more honest than, say, assuming numbers and using that as proof. My own opinion is in the half empty/half full post I made; I can see both sides.
I think it isn't about the complexity of routes. I think they add to much graphical things, that aren't the core of simulation. Look at Kassel Würzburg compared with West Coast Main Line over Shap. It's shorter than the Schnellfahrstrecke, but it has 5 times more data space.
If they start doing that it’s finished on consoles and then it will be finished on pc with no cash to back it. It’s only going to take a couple of more routes like this on console to turn people completely off and kill the game.
Exactly. For my part I have almost 70 TSW routes. So I have enough complete routes. I don't need additional second class routes.
Exactly at the time DTG start to reduce 8 Gen content, the platform I used that time, I began with waiting till this routes got a Sale. Before that I bought each route by release.
Not the route and scenery, as that can be loaded and unloaded in RAM when needed. I'm on about junctions and switches. Matt said that's a big reason why the reduced timetable was needed. If that's true, then that shouldn't be an issue for GWE
Not to worry, MP already said that this is by far the most complex route they've ever made and intimated that future routes will likely be less demanding in comparison to S Bahn. Expect the GWE remaster and future routes to work within the parameters of all platforms.
And if/when Dovetail get the full timetable released for 9th gen, you would of course be happy to pay a small fee to get it? Because it would be unfair for PC players to pay more for the same content as consoles, right?
Not to be rude but, that's pretty broken logic to be very honest with you. First, DTG still will make the money they need nonetheless. It's not as if S-Bahn frankfurt is going to be the final route they'll make. They have enough funds to not go out of business. Second, it's not consumer's fault for development shortcomings. That is on the studio and publisher. Therefore, a "Fee" yo get the actual full product would be a pretty ballsy move. Third, as a PC player I know exactly that I will always have a much better experience than console, it just is the way that the hardware on my computer is much more powerful than an Xbox Series X and further that I have access to mods. In a vacuum, is it unfair? Maybe. Would I be upset with it? Absolutely not, because it makes other people's experience just a bit better without having to give into upgrade fees.
To your first point, it's not about DTG making or loosing money. It's about "keeping it fair" between PC and 9th gen players. That's the point that everyone keeps bringing up, that it's "not fair" To your second point, again it's not a fee to get the full product. If you get a reduced product at a reduced price and then at a later date the product is 'completed' but you have still paid a reduced price, then I'm that specific examples PC and 9th gen players would have the exact same product but console players would have paid LESS for the same thing. To your third point, I'm not making an argument about console vrs PC or 8th gen vrs 9th gen. only that if 9th gen get a reduced product for a reduced price and then that product is increased to its "normal" state then 9th gen players would have essentially gotten the same routes as PC players for cheaper. There's no guarantee that the TT will be upgraded which makes this all moot but I don't think it's broken logic at all. If two people buy a book for $1 and one person only gets half the boom, and then only pays .50c for that half book. But then gets the other half 2 days layer but still only pays .50c then both people have the same book but one got it for 50% cheaper
All of that could literally be rebuked with... The term was changed shortly before release, therefore some people who aren't involved In the forum streams wouldn't know any better, unless disclaimers are included in the description. Currently, for Xbox storefronts there are no disclaimers letting consumers know that they're in fact, getting a reduced product. A sale discount doesn't have to be permanent, if DTG wants to leave it like this then a reduced price is justified If DTG wants to improve it later on, itd STILL be justified because the time-line for a fix is Unknown. It could be weeks, it could be months, even a full year. The other thing, I have to mention is that difference in Sale Discounts for platforms isn't new. Steam has for a long time gotten way more sale discounts than consoles. So the idea isn't that special anyways. If you've received half of a book, it would usually be a manufacturing defect. The usual response being a full product replacement, or a free of charge repair. At worst, you'll only be paying the shipping fee. Half a book, is still half a book. You know, it shouldn't be half a book as it's not the intended product. Now, if you had a choice between half a product, and a full product. It'd be a completely different story. For that, an upgrade fee would be justified because you HAD the choice to get the full thing.
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. Respectfully, I think at the end of the day I just don't think that this situation warrants a discount. I can see where your coming from but, and this could just me my user error, I'm just not getting it. I have only recently upgraded to 9th gen and so it's entirely likely I'm just buthurt still from so many years of getting reduced content but paying all the $$. I apologise if I was coming across as ignorant.
You say this like pc players don’t get half the catalog of DLCs on sale every 3 months all with good discounts, so is that fair to other platforms? No it’s not so we shouldn’t have to pay a few fee after buying because of this. and well I call it now in about 3 to 5 months for now the route will be on sale for pc only, mainly due to the different companies for Xbox and PlayStation but that doesn’t disprove my point
Semantics. Or horses for courses. To buy a new PC that even begins to approach the minimum standard for modern gaming is at least £1200. That’s over twice the cost of buying a console. If you want to push to a high end GPU and SSD’s out the yazoo then nearer £2k.
or you buy a steam deck from 400€ (got mine for 300 on ebay) and get to play the full timetable without crashing lol. (FPS in Frankfurt is a pain, but it stays alive ) not to put oil in the fire but i find it funny that a literal handheld manages the full timetable while ive seen reports of consoles crashing in the reduced/ "standard"
Maybe we should take a deep breath and get on with our lives. It is not 'unfair' if you pay more for a product than the next guy. It is only unfair if you did not have information or are forced to buy the product at a higher price. But you are not - you have a choice to buy or not buy, just as you chose to buy a console with a locked, proprietary and un-modifiable OS. DTG have been transparent so upfront you have the information on which to base your decision to buy. Make your decision and move on - your cardiovascular system will thank you.
Yeah the I’m alright brigade in a nutshell. And I’m someone who can play it on my pc. Your answer is not a solution, it’s just avoidance.
DC 4260 productions was correct in saying this “you don’t have to buy but doesn’t make void in your to criticism said product” ( probably mess that up but it’s basically that) the “you don’t have to buy it” argument said by a lot people is dumb because we all know we don’t have to buy but using that as a excuse to end discussions or criticism is very stupid ( probably poor writing but do I look like I really care)
