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Northeast Corridor Remake Or New Section (maybe Both..possibly)

Discussion in 'Route Suggestions & Proposals' started by rare_common_sense, Feb 14, 2018.

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  1. Remake of NY-Philly as extension from NJCL

  2. A stand-alone NY or Philadelphia to Washington route

  3. New Haven to Boston as extension of NYNH

  4. Whichever one as long as they’re all merge-able.

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Okay, so the title is stated as is for reasons I will explain in the article.

    I know we’ve gotten a few routes featuring the NEC in some shape or form. But here’s what I felt should have been done back when the first NEC route was temporarily taken down from steam:

    1) I felt it should have been rebuilt from the ground up to suit the NJT stock that was released a few months prior.

    Or

    2) It should have been extended from the NJCL route and at least done all the way to Trenton or Philadelphia. With the inclusion of the Princeton branch.

    Why do I feel the NEC should have at least gotten a complete remake?! Well, there’s just a load of inaccuracies for the route.. granted this route was done well before the inclusion of the google maps integration, and it simply just looks bland, empty. The gradients are not good at all. As it’s not as good as what has been showcased in route offerings within the last few years. The included loco, the now retired AEM-7’s have sort of gotten a bit of attention to, but the somehow the inclusion of the passenger views for the Amfleet coaches couldn’t have at least been ported over from the latest versions offered in other routes?! The little bit of the corridor that was implemented in the NJCL route showcased just how much more awesome it would look, given that much attention to detail. It gives it so much character and life to the NEC that seems to be missing in the NY to Philly section.

    For a new section. They could also do the southernmost section from Philadelphia to Washington DC. Or New Haven to Boston which has never been officially created in any train sim. Though recent attempts have surfaced. But the progress of those are still up in the air.

    I personally would really like either of the options or all of them to be realized for TS2018 sometime in the not so distant future.

    But for the sake of getting the most out of the NJT equipment, I would really love to see the NY-Philadelphia section get redone to current quality of the route offerings. With a bonus Amtrak Amfleet/Keystone cab car included.

    Thoughts/opinions are of course welcomed.
     
  2. NEC_Male_TC

    NEC_Male_TC Active Member

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    Since Dovetail Games announced they're doing an improved version of the Woodhead Line set in the 1970s, it would be cool if they did the same treatment for that for the New York to Philadelphia Northeast Corridor and having it set in the 1970s with Penn Central and Amtrak equipment or in the 1950s with Pennsylvania Railroad equipment. If they do make a new version of the New York to Philadelphia Northeast Corridor, the line to Hoboken Terminal and the Princeton Branch Line need to be included for sure.

    As for a section they never done before, it has to be the New Haven to Boston section, regardless of which game it's made for. There's the Essex Steam Train Branch Line which connects to it at Old Saybrook, CT; it has a whole different signaling system unlike anywhere else on the Northeast Corridor; it's entirely in the New England sub-region of the Northeastern United States; it has the highest speed limits on the whole Northeast Corridor and the whole United States at this time; the catenary poles are unique compared to any other section of the Northeast Corridor; Shore Line East and MBTA are the commuter railroads that serve on it (Dovetail Games has permission to use the ConnDOT/Shore Line East logos based on the evidence I've seen from the M8 and FL9 packs), the New Haven to Boston section can spawn unique trainset DLC that you can't find anywhere else (like the New Haven I5 Hudson steam locomotives and the New Haven diesel streamliner The Comet), MBTA runs on it as I've said and they look like a partnership-friendly railroad based on their licensed merchandising; and the section from New Haven to Boston has some awesome scenery where the Northeast Corridor actually goes along the coast. There has also never been a payware version of the New Haven to Boston section of the Northeast Corridor for any train simulation game, so that adds originality. The Philadelphia to Washington section has been done over and over and over again in MSTS and Trainz and it's not spectacular as I will explain below.

    The Philadelphia to Washington section doesn't come close to the New Haven to Boston section. The only way I could possibly see it being a good idea is if it's sold as an extension for the existing New York to Philadelphia Northeast Corridor or if the New York to Washington section of the Northeast Corridor is made as a single route for either Train Simulator 2018 or Train Sim World, but not as a standalone route. Or maybe a third party developer (like GTrax or Milepost Simulations) will make it as a standalone route in their own time someday. The Philadelphia to Washington section of the Northeast Corridor is by far the most boring section (you go through the middle of no where for about half of it) and it goes through some of the worst neighborhoods in Philadelphia, Wilmington and Baltimore; it's all in the Mid-Atlantic sub-region of the Northeastern United States like the New York to Philadelphia section; the track infrastructure is the same as on the New York to Philadelphia section since it was part of the Pennsylvania Railroad's section and was electrified and modernized at the same time as the New York to Philadelphia section; the Philadelphia end of the route is going to look horrible (even worse than on the existing New York to Philadelphia version) since the route will end in the lower level of 30th Street Station like in MSTS (it's a trackwork and topography issue, not a graphical issue); it can't spawn any new trainset DLC since everything that runs or ran there can be found on other parts of the Northeast Corridor or other routes in the United States and also SEPTA rejected the partnership offer from Dovetail Games. Let's not forget, MARC doesn't look like a partnership-friendly railroad either based on merchandising.

    So that's my take on it and highly advise that Dovetail Games takes my advice seriously on it. In short, I will support the New York to Philadelphia section redone with a time period change for Train Simulator 2018 and inclusion of extra branch lines along it, the same thing applies to Train Sim World (but if it's made for Train Sim World, it could be set in present-day). As for an all-new section that Dovetail Games has never made for a standalone route regardless of which game it's made for, it must be New Haven to Boston (or a sub-section of it), not Philadelphia to Washington (or a sub-section of that).
     
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  3. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    I would have to say I agree with almost everything said here. Except for the Philadelphia to Washington being not so interesting, though for licensing reasons, I can understand why you feel it wouldn’t be the best option, though there could be some great substitutes in place for what isn’t provided. But, I do however support it being done from NY to DC. And not as an extension to the current NY to Philadelphia, being that the route is filled with inaccuracies.

    As for New Haven to Boston.. I feel would be pretty awesome and would agree it should take priority over the Philadelphia to Washington section, also for the same reasons you stated, to which I absolutely agree with.
     
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  4. NEC_Male_TC

    NEC_Male_TC Active Member

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    I understand that there are differences in opinion when it comes to places being "scenic" or "interesting". For example, some might think the New York City skyline is scenic, while others don't. Some might find the Colorado Rockies to be scenic, and others don't (I've been to both of those places and I find them both to be scenic in their own ways). That's why I think the words "scenic" and "interesting" can sometimes be dangerous words to use when describing a place since it varies from person to person, I try my best to explain myself when I use those words when describing a place, and that's why I described the New Haven to Boston and Philadelphia to Washington sections the way I did in my last post here.

    From my experience riding the Northeast Corridor, which in total, I've ridden it from Washington to New Haven so far (but also went train watching along various locations of the New Haven to Boston section), I was actually disappointed with most of the section between Philadelphia and Washington. In addition, I was always disappointed with the MSTS team for picking that section of the Northeast Corridor as a default route for MSTS 1 for the reasons I mentioned above and more. My theory is that if they didn't make the Japanese routes in the default MSTS package, I'm sure they could've done the full Washington to New York (ex-Pennsy) subdivision; I would've preferred that without the Japanese routes over a shorter Northeast Corridor with two Japanese routes.

    I support the New York to Washington section as one route for either game because this way, if you're like me, you don't have to feel like you're on a bad route the whole time. Like once you get out of your most-hated part of the route, you feel as if the worst is over and you're out on your favorite part like you're heading home. Speaking of the full ex-Pennsy part of the Northeast Corridor, it would actually be realistic to have the full part from New York to Washington done as a single route because Philadelphia's 30th Street Station is not a crew change point for Amtrak trains despite its large size. This would help for more realistic scenarios both in the route's default package and for scenario creators (like me) on Steam Workshop. Now while a route extension to Washington on the existing Northeast Corridor might look out-of-date and I can see why you wouldn't think that's a good idea, there is one advantage to it and that is the AEM-7 would be re-included plus maybe a New Jersey Transit train and also a Norfolk Southern train can be included too. But I admit, it would look way better if it was done to the current standards for Train Simulator 2018 routes.

    I'm glad to hear though that we are both agreed about the New Haven to Boston section of the Northeast Corridor being the next section for an all-new section of the Northeast Corridor from Dovetail Games, and for those who are in favor of that section being their next all-new section, realistically, I think that will be their next section of it for either game. Boston's South Station appeared as an option and answer in the New Years 2018 quiz (New York's Penn Station and San Francisco's 4th & King Street Station are also options in that quiz and Dovetail Games made routes featuring them) and many of the reasons I mentioned in my first post in this thread have valid points. Even though that Steve said that quiz wasn't supposed to imply anything, I think it can at least imply that their next section of the Northeast Corridor will feature Boston, even if it doesn't come out anytime soon. All speculation for now I know, but it might be a good indicator of things to come.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
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  5. JessicaKasumi

    JessicaKasumi Member

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    Personally, I'd love to see a new build of the Northeast Corridor (NYP - PHL). Yes, I own the route, but at times, it feels inaccurate. I haven't been to the Northeast Corridor in about 7 or so years, but know people who live along it and they agree the route feels incorrect. However, I'm not going to bash Dovetail over the head with it, because they have limited resources to contend with. If they did remake the route, I'd support it whole heartedly. The route needs an update, and even if Dovetail couldn't get SEPTA (or SEPTIC as me and some former SEPTA people now employees at Amtrak call it), Dovetail could create a fictional commuter service, to work the Trenton - Philadelphia service by SEPTA's Trenton Line. Also, it'd be nice to be able to run the ACS-64 with ATC and ACSES turned on, instead of being turned off as it currently is. Not bashing, mind you, just a thought.
     
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  6. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree. An unbranded dlc would totally suffice for the SEPTA portion. This is something I've brought up to them regarding anything they are unable to get licenses for. As long as they are at least able to do the equipment without branding, we'll take it. Anything to work with, is better than nothing, especially when you have talented folks within the community that can help fill some of those gaps.
     
  7. JessicaKasumi

    JessicaKasumi Member

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    rare_common_sense That makes sense. After all, they have the M8, and Arrow car, with modifications to the model, they could pose as unbranded Silverliner V and IV cars respectively. After all, some have done reskins of the M8 to represent the SEPTA Silverliner V, so in theory, a modified unbranded model could suffice.
     
  8. pschlik

    pschlik Well-Known Member

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    Do ATC and ACSES really not work on the old NEC? I guess that old system was too specifically designed for the AEM 7...I don't even know if the AEM 7 works on New York to New Haven.
     
  9. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    A rework of both the NEC and the AEM-7 should be done if you ask me, along with the addition of the Amtrak Ex-Metroliner Cab Car for push-pull operations. That's yet to be included in this game for some odd reason.
     
  10. Keystone Railfan

    Keystone Railfan New Member

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    I doubt they will ever do a remake of the Nec off of the njcl because they already fixed the original nec from Train Simulator 2012
     
  11. Blue Fred

    Blue Fred Member

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    I personally agree with a lot of you, north of NY Penn is a lot better. I like New Haven and a lot of stations/places. In New Jersey, it feels same old and boring; and then south of Philly to DC it feels unmodern. The MARC is extremely rural, but in a rusty light. I do think DC is cool especially with the Washington Metro. Though I'd honestly be more hyped for a TSW version of this.
     
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  12. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to see the NH-BOS done, as it is the only portion of the route that never been done in any simulator, officially. I would love to see some MBTA and Shoreline East stuff in there as well. As long as it can be merged with the NYNH

    But now, if a route south of NY Penn, I would love to see the entire section of the NY to DC done in one route that can also be merged with the NYNH. The only reason why the NJ portion looks boring is that we've been stuck with the dated (not to mention inaccurate) NEC NYPH. We could still get a lot out of the section because although we don't have SEPTA and MARC equipment, we still do have DLC that can be used in place for them. Via repaints that are available elsewhere online.
     
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  13. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    That was more of a bug fix, really, along with some minor scenery addition, which is hardly noticeable. Still looks empty, bland, dated. And doesn't even really do the NJT equipment we finally have any justice.
     
  14. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    New Haven to Boston is built. It is on Steam Workshop.
     
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  15. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    They hardly fixed it.
     
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  16. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Ugh, tell me about it. The only things I noticed were a few more trees here and there, the train bounces less when you're moving at high speed, and they added a passenger view for the Acela. Other than that, it's the same old route. Not even close to current standards.
     
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  17. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Man, I had such high hopes for it. I really thought that because they had recently released the NJCL that they would improve or even given the route such a huge overhaul. Brought up to current route standards. Because what little of it is showcased in the NJCL is awesome looking. So much life and character to the route. And then you have NEC. Which looks like an msts Route with updated graphics.
     
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  18. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    They also changed the color of the catenary poles. I would not consider it an upgrade at all.
     
  19. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Ugh yeah, and I've seen the MSTS NEC and it looks horrible. There are some parts of the TS NEC that look acceptable, but for the most part it's just garbage and it desperately needs a REAL scenery upgrade.
     
  20. pschlik

    pschlik Well-Known Member

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    The only real reason the NEC was took down was because it was broekn levels of buggy. The only reason it was brought back was because it is popular. Typical example of putting in the minimum effort and only fixing what is totally broken. Nothing new in the gaming world.
     
  21. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    That much, I gathered. As long as that dlc was out they could have done way better than what was given to us. I personally would have accepted a NEC extension on the NJCL. I still think it should be done. If it’s that popular.
     
  22. Lawjester

    Lawjester Well-Known Member

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    I to would like to see a proper remake of the NEC, for years after they took it off of Steam I was trying to find any way I can to get it and when DTG finally released the “remake” I was so happy, but I realized that it was terrible and and not a real redo. I only drove from Penn to Rahway because I saw how bad it was compared to the NJCL trackage in that area and I was upset because this was not even comparable to the NJCL. I’m afraid if DTG attempts to make it again they’ll just screw it up and maybe we could receive something else in the N.Y. area instead of this (LIRR, Metro North). The LIRR is also considered part of the NEC and that’s the one void DTG has not filled in Penn so hopefully they can do that, and when they do we better see a remake of Penn for that because Penn and Harold Int. is not acceptable at this time, they’re many things that need to be fixed in that area and the little LIRR trackage that we have (Woodside-Long Island City/Penn). DTG definitely did a better job with making the Hudson River tunnels and A interlocking for the NJT routes, I just hope they do the same with Harold and JO interlocking.
     

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