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Northern Line

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by ZeenozPlays, Mar 22, 2021.

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  1. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I play the Waterloo & City line in openbve and to be honest if it was made for tsw2, I would buy it without hesitation since I enjoy it.

    Some people do think that subway routes are all underground which isn't the case and some complain about how repetitive it is even though every passenger route in the game is repetitive since your accelerating, breaking, stopping, opening and closing doors and do the same thing again and again on pretty much every other route in the sim
     
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  2. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    DTG have developed lzb which is pretty much automation so I'm sure dtg could do that. Also you don't have to drive automatically if in manual mode on sub surface lines since they are not fully automatic. You act like dtg can't do amazing things but time and time again they do amazing things and develop new features. Heck if they can't develop automation for the sub surface lines (which I think they can) they could just set the subsurface lines to pre automation fully. You would still have the s7s and the s8 stock and it wouldn't be 100% necassary to make the older trains
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
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  3. NoddyMac

    NoddyMac Active Member

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    You have knowledge, that’s good. I too have read up on history of the Underground. I have been on tours of disused stations and learned so many interesting facts about the stations and roles they’ve played for London in the past. It might surprise you to know, I can actually write without crayons and I can read without visual aid.

    I don’t see what living in London for 15 years has to do with anything? Many people have lived in London all their lives and know zilch about the Underground. I’ve lived in London all my life, I’ve worked on the railway (both national rail and LU) in various capacities and I’m still with LU now. Do you still wish to try and one up? Or do you want to start being a grown up and talk like big boys?
     
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  4. djhawtin1

    djhawtin1 Well-Known Member

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    Funny you should say that you know the underground really well, My friend who is a Driver on the Piccadilly says that no one knows a little bit until they take the training
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
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  5. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    NoddyMac as you have purposefully avoided I was accused of not knowing that all of the Underground wasn’t underground. I think just about every Londoner knows that. You get so rude (try not to get banned) and elsewhere you are considered quite the gentleman.

    djhawtin1 you really need to read the posts. I didn’t use the phrase ‘really well’. And I did have two relatives who worked on the Underground in the 1970-1980s who I have talked to quite a lot, you remember the days when those checking tickets at the exits had pockets bulging with excess fare coins.
     
  6. NoddyMac

    NoddyMac Active Member

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    I’m only biting as much as you have been. I did say, let’s stop beating a dead horse and move on but your attitude indicated you wanted to continue. I wouldn’t say I was being rude, but I am certainly turning the key that sets you off. It has been fun. I would have a serious/intelligent conversation with you but you’ve demonstrated on several occasions you can’t do it without some form of hostility towards an opinion you don’t share. Like I said many a time, it’s cool that you don’t have a desire to see LU routes featured any more, so that’s that. I will say, I do hope they make one, because I know you’ll buy it. :cool:

    But in all seriousness now, all string pulling aside, yes, I do want to see my employer featured more in the game. Do I think it will happen? It’s quite possible, but all we can do is suggest and see, right?
     
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  7. djhawtin1

    djhawtin1 Well-Known Member

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    That was about 50 years ago mate, a lot of things have changed since then like aldwych, Crossrail, Margret Thatcher's been and gone The PEPS Have stayed, a lot of the tube stock has changed and to be honest a lot of other things in london have changed.
    Get back in the real world
     
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  8. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    djhawtin1 yes, but the Underground then and now has underground and surface portions. Plus I’ve been back rather a lot since. Not too many people fly the Atlantic several times a year to take the District Line to Football games.

    NoddyMac it’s too early for more LT lines. DTG don’t replicate ideas, or at least not quickly. DTG also don’t produce a lot of content each year so a lookalike line (Bakerloo-Northern) would likely be a long time in the future. So the issue becomes what line is different enough and easy enough (length, scenery complexity) to get built and well enough known to sell. On the existing LT lines I can’t see an obvious candidate. Now there might be a candidate, but that’s what suggestions, if they are going to be adopted should focus on.

    So what might be out there? Well if and when it gets built the Central core of Crossrail might be something they would look at, if nothing else because of the global publicity it would get. The Epping and Ongar railway might be another. In fact I was a little surprised that the IOW was done rather than that. The old Circle Line might have been an interesting one, but again the stations there are actually pretty complex but it looked pretty much the same through several eras. DLR doesn’t work because of the automation. Barking to Gospel Oak might work if for no other reason than its way less complicated in track patterns than anything south of the river. Heathrow Express (although I lose track of what it is now called and who runs it) might work as they could reuse the Paddington model from GWE.
     
  9. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    An argument could be made that it's too early to make more passenger routes then. What's next it's too early for another German communter rail route or another U.K commuter rail route or another high speed route along with another freight route since dtg have made those routes recently. This thread was simply a suggestion of a London Underground line that could be in the game in the future. It doesn't have to be made immediately but it would be cool to see more London Underground lines in the future
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
  10. NoddyMac

    NoddyMac Active Member

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    To be fair man, you say they don’t release much but we’re getting loads of routes since the release of the game. I do wish they hadn’t included a load of routes from the previous instalment though and just focused on new ones like they will going forward.

    TfL Rail or as we all call it “Lizzy line” will be a great edition should it be done. As you mentioned, it needs to open up first.

    London Overground would also be a great inclusion, I wouldn’t be opposed to that.
     
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  11. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    tallboy7648 Which is where I started and everyone then started telling me I didn’t need to buy the route, what Sam would say to me and wondering if I was banned yet.
     
  12. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    NoddyMac what you need to consider with the routes that are released is the cycle through UK, Europe and the US. So if there are ten routes perhaps three will be UK based and that’s another obstacle to getting another tube line done.
     
  13. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    But saying that it's too early for this or that makes no sense in my opinion. Saying that it's too early for another London Underground route is like saying it's too early for another commuter rail route since dtg have done that recently. Is it too early foe dtg to be making Hamburg-Lubeck since dtg have made a German Commuter rail/high speed route recently? The intent of the suggestion is too see if the Northern Line could come in the future, not immediately.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
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  14. NoddyMac

    NoddyMac Active Member

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    So we wait. It’s not ideal in the current situation anyway and that’s partly why the Bakerloo line wasn’t 100% accurate (ref train sounds) so I get they were restricted. Once the pandemic is over and they’ve done other routes, there is no reason why they can’t explore the tube again. It’s something some of us want, it’s not the end of the world bud.

    And to reference your point on our comment about you not purchasing a route (and this is me being serious, not trying to wind you up or be disrespectful) but take the latest UK add on. Loco’s we already have, a route we already have, combining the two together and charging full DLC price for it. That is a waste of route and time when that could have been focused on something fresh like the other content they are working on, which I’m excited for. So Y’know what? I simply didn’t purchase that add on.
     
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  15. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    tallboy7648 but your argument falls down because LT Underground routes have a lot in common. You could have another German route in a completely different part of the country. Compare Hamburg and the surrounding area to somewhere like Munich. Same country, different experience.
     
  16. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    NoddyMac DTG don’t expect people to buy everything, although some on this forum do. What they need is new routes and genre that sell to some of the existing base and add new people to the franchise as they are interested in the new route. The Venn diagram of those who would be interested in the Bakerloo line and the Northern would have a huge overlap - it would not bring many new users.

    As for the recent GWE pack that was basically all recycled stuff. That should cause concern about why in this stage of the franchise they are releasing ‘Greatest Hits’ rather than investing in new product.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
  17. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I've seen a thread complaining that all modern German routes are the same so it's nice to see that someone doesn't think that all modern German routes are the same. My argument doesn't really fall down though because what you said made no sense. Saying that dtg shouldn't make something too early makes no sense. That's like saying dtg shouldn't make a passenger route because it was done recently. A deep tube line and a sub-surface line are not the same.
     
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  18. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    If you think they are just a C&P from Wikipedia, then you are greatly mistaken.
     
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  19. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    tallboy7648 deep tube lines are a way of getting around the issue that other tube lines (like sub surface and surface ones) are hugely intensive in terms of scenery as they are based in a city. Ever wonder why so many TSW lines have you gliding through the countryside? Start at a big terminal in Brighton and five minutes later its tree time.
     
  20. djhawtin1

    djhawtin1 Well-Known Member

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    ALL of the german toutes feel the same, there not the exact same but they feel the same
     
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  21. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    djhawtin1 perhaps the Germans think the same about UK routes? One issue is that as this is an english language forum we get a very UK/US view on things.
     
  22. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Set it around 2010-2016 and you could have the S Stock (Without Automation), and possibly still have room for the A/C/D Stock as loco Add-ons.
     
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  23. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    What does that have to do with anything? Clinchfield is intensive with scenery and is 62 miles long so scenery is not a issue. A deep tube line is deep underground and a subsurface line is below the surface
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
  24. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Yeh they sorta feel the same in certain ways but are not 100% the same but then again that can be argued with a American freight route or a British Communter rail route
     
  25. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    ZeenozPlays Ok, but how do you sell that to the casual user? You’ve gone back in time just far enough to avoid full automation, but not too far that you can’t use modern maps to build it. 2010-2016 is hardly some sort of golden era for the line. What’s the headline on the pack?
     
  26. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Wait, so you wouldn't consider HMA to be a lookalike line to SKA? I mean, they both are High-Speed and have the ICE...
     
  27. NoddyMac

    NoddyMac Active Member

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    But with LUL where is the difficulty in scenery? The heart of the city you’re just seeing darkness? It’s all tunnel, that’s easier than doing countryside scenery I reckon? Plus, if you look at the Central line in terms of scenery, there is nothing spectacular about the view. Epping end of the line and even Hainault is quite country and then it’s pretty much housing estates, the A12 and a graveyard, more tunnels, then more rural areas with housing estates dotted about. Same thing with the Met. The District is just housing pretty much and buildings, so it wouldn’t be difficult at all. The issue lies with automation, as we and Dovetail have discussed.
     
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  28. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    tallboy7648 so your argument is that building density in 1970 Virginia is about the same as modern day London? Any LT route is going to be surrounded by a huge amount of buildings.
     
  29. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the Hammersmith & City, District Circle and Metropolitan line have changed all that much in 5 years. They have the same terminus and the lines haven't changed much except with the inclusion with cbtc
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
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  30. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    NoddyMac but now you’ve gone back into the tunnels and that means its just like the Bakerloo. I used to commute from the east on the Central. Don’t you think by the time you get to Leyton it starts getting, lets say ‘busy’
     
  31. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    How would it be scenery intensive. The metropolitan line goes underground and once it goes above ground you get a more suburban like on the Long Island Railroad. The Central Line when above ground is in the suburbs. The northern line is the same thing as well. That argument doesn't stand
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
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  32. NoddyMac

    NoddyMac Active Member

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    M
    This is just to give you an idea. That’s Barkingside station. I wouldn’t think that would be difficult to replicate?
     

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  33. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Classic weekend thread. Alas, I’m out of popcorn now.
     
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  34. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    A upgraded dispatcher should handle the busyness of the route
     
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  35. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    The Subsurface lines, for the most part, go underground just as they are getting to the more built-up 'city' areas. It shouldn't/wouldn't be any performance issues, nor would it be scenery intensive.
     
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  36. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Not gonna lie, I was eating popcorn while catching up on this chaos.
     
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  37. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly
     
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  38. NoddyMac

    NoddyMac Active Member

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    Is it much different to national rail routes that go into tunnels? Look at the Southeastern route, that has its fair share of tunnels and they aren’t exactly short either, only difference is the stations are in the open.

    It would depend on which section of the line you would want to cover. The east end of the Central is actually a great example and as you’ve commuted it, you know it’s a mix of open section and tunnel between Hainault and Stratford. If you do the Epping branch you have even more open section. Perhaps it could be something like say? Epping or Hainault to White City? Okay, there’s a fair portion underground in tunnels but at least you still get daylight too?
     
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  39. NoddyMac

    NoddyMac Active Member

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    If you do get more, could you get me some please? I’ll have an owl fly you some money.
     
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  40. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I made some popcorn so I can give you some. Heck you don't even have to pay
     
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  41. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    NoddyMac Barkingside isn’t going to be the issue, but what happens when you pop up westbound into Stratford? Your video card is just going to love that.
     
  42. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    DTG is working on optimization for the game which will apply to future routes so that won't be an issue especially on console

    I've been enjoying my popcorn. Would you like some?
     
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  43. NoddyMac

    NoddyMac Active Member

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    Na, to be honest you don’t see much. A few buildings and that’s about it and some national rail lines ahead on the right for Liverpool Street. Dovetail doesn’t have to capture everything in great detail. The Olympic park/stadium might be a bit of an issue but you don’t see the stadium perfectly anyway.
     
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  44. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    NoddyMac A few buildings... you mean like Westfield on one side the old Stratford Centre on the other side. Even in Ts1 on the Anglia route that gets the cooling fans whirring. Still, perhaps you can walk up the road and get an early pint at the Railway Tavern or is that no longer a pub? Used to pass there each morning on my way to catch the Central Line to work.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
  45. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    tallboy7648 ‘DTG is working on optimization for the game which will apply to future routes so that won't be an issue especially on console’
    Other than any optimization will have limitations that’s a very brave thing to say. Where you one of the people who just knew that the editor was going to be released any day and they were just ‘perfecting’ it?
     
  46. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    No I was not one of those people who was thinking about the editor. Optimization updates are on the roadmap which means they are definitely working on it and it's a core update for the game meaning that any route will perform better so your argument about optimization issues which will make it difficult for London Underground routes to be made is not valid. It's not a brave thing to say, it's just the truth
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2021
  47. mldaureol2

    mldaureol2 Member

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    Hi,
    So what about Stratford in SEHS released in February.
    TSW2 seems to cope with Stratford then.
    Mike.
     
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  48. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    tallboy7648 you don’t know what the impact of those optimizations are and what they will and will not allow. Any route may perform better but optimizations are incremental improvements not miracles. TSW has underperformed from the day it was released. Just look at the small amounts of AI that run in the lines, just look at the stutters that appear in fairly low density areas. But the optimizations are going to allow huge leaps in scenery density. Righty ho...
     
  49. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    @midaureol2 fair point and I don’t own that line - I was never a fan of the TSW1 version. I don’t know what the view is of Stratford from the HS line - I did think those platforms were quite a lot lower than the tube line and I didn’t see them the last time I was there a couple of years ago. Is the view from those platforms like the tube vantage point? In TS1 the platforms were in a kind of concrete box.
     
  50. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Yes and optimization updates will improve performance of the game on last gen consoles. Your acting like the optimization updates won't make a big difference when dtg have said they will
     
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