Northern Trans-pennine

Discussion in 'Technical Reports' started by Driver-17111045, May 7, 2020.

  1. Driver-17111045

    Driver-17111045 New Member

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    Hi all, this is a bug that was listed last year. However it has still not been fixed. When doing any route into Manchester the game crashes when leaving Miles Platting. I deleted all other games, and cleared all cache, as someone said this may help. It didn't. I didn't have this problem until the 2020 update, also didn't have this problem when I installed the BR Heavy Freight DLC. This problem should've been resolved, if anyone has found a way to resolve it please let me know. I don't mean saving game and starting from where I left off, this has been proven to create it's own problems. Many thanks.
     
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  2. arobinson2202

    arobinson2202 New Member

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    Pretty sure it was Matt on one of the streams saying there still looking into it, they have released fixes which have worked for some but not for others, definitely fustrating as it's one of my favourite routes
     
  3. JohnnyK98

    JohnnyK98 Well-Known Member

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    Ah, this might explain why my game crashed yesterday while driving the Class 47. It seems hit and miss though, because I've completed the route numerous times.
     
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  4. JazzyGeofferz

    JazzyGeofferz Member

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    It's almost 50/50 whether it happens with me.
     
  5. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    And it's happening in both directions.
    I tried the 10.48 service from Manchester to Leeds recently - at the first try there was the miles platting crash, at the second try it worked (after a little freeze) but my trip ended by speeding over the red signal at the entrance of the standedge tunnel (which was not shown before, apparently)...
    I now use the route only for 101 services Leeds - Huddersfield and vice versa and some freights avoiding Manchester. :/

    I think it has something to do with the memory usage and loading of objects - back in MSTS days you could easily produce the same type of crash by placing too many objects in one tile.

    This makes it quite difficult to resolve though - because then the only possibilities would be deleting some objects, including tracks which could ruin the whole timetable service and quite some immersion or it gets solved on its own due to further optimization with TSW 2021...

    By the way, can somebody remember if there was any larger post - release update for any route including adding or removing new objects?
    I can remember "only" safety systems, signalling, timetable bugs and performance upgrades... which means it could be extremely difficult to work on a route and update it after it got released...
     
  6. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    I use a PS4 so please excuse my presence here but although I haven't experienced the crashes you seem to be having, I have had that red signal just before Standedge tunnel several times. It's very frustrating to pass Diggle loop unchecked only to find yourself looking at a red light 200 yards away and no chance of stopping in time. I don't mind stopping but a distant signal would be appreciated. I hope this route gets some attention soon, with the crashes on Xbox and the weak class 47, it's putting me off bothering with it.
     
  7. -PjM-

    -PjM- Well-Known Member

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    I often wonder if it's that blue coloured factory on the left of the line heading up to Newton Heath. It just pops into existence as you approach Miles Platting.

    I'm on a PS4 Pro and have never had any crashes but I know it affects other users.
    ----------------------
    That, according to a stream comment, has been looked into and they are testing a fix out. It'll hopefully be patched "soon".
    Actually I think that's accurate in that you don't always get a distant signal in such a short block. In this case I think maybe you should get stopped at the previous signal prior to the one protecting the tunnel. The block control needs adjustment.
     
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  8. gavin.gledhill

    gavin.gledhill New Member

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    Game has just crashed on me doing service NH04 just after I went underneath the bridge near the last signal before entering Red Bank sidings.
     
  9. christophmkfranke

    christophmkfranke New Member

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    Hi everyone, same issue with me. The game just crashes when going past Miles Platting just before the ramp down into Manchester Victoria starts.
    Only seems to happen on the way into Manchester, I can start services starting at Manchester Victoria.
    However, I cannot start some tasks that start close to Manchester Victoria. Like Red back rotation or the diesel tutorial.
    They need to fix this...
    It's a shame because it's still one of my favourite routes.
     
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  10. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I think that this could be quite difficult to fix. Not impossible... but it could take a lot of work. There is potentially something about the Platting Triangle.... (I prefer Bermuda...).... that is tricky to diagnose....

    My personal guess is that there are multiple tile joins right on the MP triangle - so the simulator might be trying to load up four relatively dense map tiles (in a square), plus the surrounding twelve (also fairly dense), when it is generally more comfortable with nine in total (where six are fairly empty), so maybe it is trying to do five times more processing than you'd normally expect throughout the route (....> 16/3).

    It's just a guess - but if this is the issue, then re-work would take a very long time (measured in days or possibly weeks). I strongly suspect that this is also the issue that caused a large chunk of the OSD yards to suddenly not become available as part of that route.... That isn't based on any direct knowledge - just a reasonably well-informed guess.

    The question that I have is - does it always happen with any particular service... 100% repeatably...? Also - I don't have XBox.... but is there a chance that the XBox is multi-tasking, and it really needs to give TSW as much resource as possible...(switching internet off, clearing cache, cold re-boot....)?

    I don't get this issue on PS4 Pro - but on a fairly powerful PC you can tell that it isn't completely happy with this part of NTP. I'd be interested to know if the speed restrictions in that area are genuinely authentic.... or designed to lessen the load on the simulator..... If anyone knows...answers on a postcard please.... ;-)
     
  11. eire007

    eire007 Active Member

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    This is the best route but I gave up playing on it due to constant crashes of the game about 2kms from the end of the route. cant believe I paid for a ad on that does not work 100%. They obviously do not have testers. This is the worst track for crashing.
     
  12. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately it seems to happen when you start at Manchester Victoria as well.
    I stopped driving services which start at Leeds due to the problem and instead usually start in Manchester.
    Last time I tried the 10.48 (I think, it's quite a while since then) which first crashed in Miles Platting and in a second try led me into an unannounced red before the Standedge (?) tunnel... yikes :D

    By what I've seen from the crashes I agree with you. And I also fear that this is an issue which is indeed extremely difficult to solve (not like the missing water in Peninsular Corridor or the weakened Class 47) because the main way to solve it would be removing some of the objects in the tiles or completely rebuild the LOD structure of ALL objects in them.

    I think we have to wait for the new console generation to get this working again. SSDs and - if that's not enough - maybe UE5 could cope with it.

    It's sad because all these issues made me stop using NTP for now - but I don't see another solution...

    Cheers
     
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  13. christophmkfranke

    christophmkfranke New Member

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    Hey guys,
    I see, what a shame....
    Well, I was able to complete both Saturday Special tasks with the 3-unit 101. It did work, but I guess as it finishes/starts at Stalybridge it won't touch the Miles Platting/ M.Victoria it's fine. Haven't had any other crashes so far (touch wood) other than the one coming down from Miles Platting & the tasks I can't even start.
    Fingers crossed they solve it at some point soon-ish.
    Cheers
     
  14. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    To be fair to the developers - this is difficult.... Difficult to know where to start. What you (and anyone else that has the problem) need to do is report it as a bug.... but you need to give more than "sometimes crashes near Miles Platting"....

    - which services are you unable to run....?
    - can you load any of the services....?
    - which precise services that you do run have issues.... is it all of them...?
    - how fast did you enter the area....?
    - when/what did you notice before the crash....?
    - exactly where was the crash on the route, and which direction were you facing...?
    - were you sat in the loco, standing, or in an unusual camera view...?
    - did it freeze the XBox, crash back to menu, or crash into Blue Screen of Death...?
    - did you get an error code...?

    If this is a problem that affects all XBox players, and it is a problem with the current main bundled product, then it should get looked at and fixed. If NTP is completely unplayable, then it should get fixed...!

    If you give me an example of a service, I will look at it it on PS4 (any including Heavy Freight) and/ on PC (but not Heavy Freight).
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
  15. christophmkfranke

    christophmkfranke New Member

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    Hello,
    Thank you for your post.
    That's great if you wouldn't mind looking into them.
    Well, I just finished some DMU workings, that didn't crash, that round trip Summer Saturday excursion.
    But then I tried the 7E40 Manchester to Huddersfield Oil Empties, that actually crashed while topping Miles Platting bank. That's the first time a service starting at M.Victoria crashed.
    Usually i have problems with services coming into Manchester.

    Could you check, if you can load the Diesel tutorial (45&47) or the Scenario Red Bank Rotation? All these cannot load, TSW crashes while loading them, so I can't even get into them.

    I do believe that the problem behind it isn't an easy one and I wouldn't have a clue doing it. So maybe we can help the developers and get info together to help them.
    How can one open a bug report?
    Sorry to ask, but I'm fairly new to the Forum;)
    Thanks
     
  16. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    No worries. Here is my report back to you from PS4 Pro (I don't have Heavy Freight on PC):

    - There is no 7E40 service, so I ran the 7E60 service (at 11:59), with the journey/consist you described (with x13 empty TEAs)
    - I ran the Class 40 with headcode "livery", on a Clear/Spring setting
    - I detected a slight studder after starting up the bank towards MP, and another slight studder on the approach to the MP triangle... and when I say slight, I really do mean slight. In the other direction.... the studder when just leaving MP traingle is sometimes marginally worse - more noticeable, but not upsetting.

    This is what I expected to see. The PS4 Pro has no real problem rendering NTP, and the two studders mentioned above are the only ones I ever really detect, on the whole route. This is a location where there are clearly tile/asset streaming issues, and the PS4 Pro is being pushed hard on data transfer. You can tell that it is likely to be a data transfer issue, rather than rendering, because if you ever dare open the map for the first time when you are on the bank towards MP or anywhere near the MP triangle, then the PS4 Pro will freeze for about ten seconds before giving you the map - it literally becomes the straw that breaks the camel's back.... but the simulation then recovers on PS4 Pro - but I suspect that this (map opening) would completely crash the XBox at this location (especially the older XBox).

    On a PC - a fairly powerful PC gaming rig with TSW on SSD plus 8Gb GPU....... these studders are all much worse than on a humble PS4 Pro, but it doesn't ever crash the PC. This is because TSW has been really poorly optimised for CPU multi-threading. I would expect it to be a much much worse experience on XBox, especially the older XBox....

    Bug reporting guidance can be found here (for XBox):
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/welcome-to-the-known-issues-bug-reports-subforum.4614/

    which incorrectly links to here (as a tagged search that you could browse, but not report from):
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/tags/bug-report/

    but should really link to here (the actual portal; to report bugs):
    https://dovetailgames.kayako.com/Tickets/Submit

    But.... before you submit a detailed and properly formatted report, I suggest that you try 7E60 on Clear/Spring settings (so no rain/mist particles), and run up the bank from a seated position in the cab, without moving your head/camera until you have cleared MP entirely, and certainly without opening the map or interacting with (loading) HUD menus.... and see if that works for you. This is to see if the "margin of performance" just about swings back into your favour, without doing anything else physically to your XBox.

    But (Part II......) - you have also reported not being able to load the Heavy Freight scenarios, and this is highly unusual. So I would suggest that if you have no luck with 7E60, that you then also do some performance improvements/maintenance on your XBox (such as off-loading some games you don't play anymore to create disk space (the last port of call for pretend RAM on PC based systems...), and then doing a de-frag to tidy up the storage. And then run TSW from a cold boot, with no other software running, and.... switch off the internet to prevent any sort of background downloads interacting with your storage and any online programmes interacting with your processor time.

    ...and then try 7E60 again... and if that works, ......then finally try the scenarios that you can't currently load. You will then know which action fixed which problem. Whatever happens with 7E60, you will probably need to do something about your XBox to get those scenarios to load - because I very much doubt that this is a common problem. And after you have tried all of the above, maybe a fresh re-install of TSW.....?

    If none of this works for you - then submit a ticket:
    https://dovetailgames.kayako.com/Tickets/Submit

    I hope that helps you. If anyone else cannot load NTP Heavy Freight scenarios (at all), it would be helpful if they could say so below.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020

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