Ny-trenton: Usa Content Is Still Severely Flawed

If they need to fix it they should add playable services Morris and Essex Montclair line between New York Penn and Secaucus. Arrow III

 

I have seen that they have AI doing some services to Dover, Summit, and Montclair university some stop at secaucus others got straight through to off the map towards newark broad street

 

Which is funny, because this route ALREADY HAS a paid loco add-on. And yet, it is still so disappointing, we need to talk about possibly paying EVEN MORE, just to make it a somewhat close representation of what it purportedly is, that is, a simulation of driving from Trenton to NYP. Although I bought Acela I wouldn't touch NYT, not to mention any additional paid DLC for the route, unless there are some timetable improvements first, which I do not except to see. And then there are the myriad other problems that have been pointed out, some of which may eventually be patched.

 

Yeah, they have been advertising it with the Acela from the beginning, which is another payware add-on, yet the timetable is horribly empty even with the additonal services it brings. Sure, I bet there is room for an NJT Arrow in the timetable and it makes sense to leave that out for now and it would be a great move to release it later on. But many of the NJT services that could be made with the current rolling stock is also missing, no paid add-on will help that, only if they update the main timetable. And of course, then there is the LIRR and freight layer, which we have already mentioned a hundred times by now.

 

I definitely won't be getting the Acela unless the issues I have with both post-update Boston-Providence and NY-Trenton are fixed.

It's a shame as it's a really appealing route to me. But that's two DLCs, a route and a loco, crossed off my purchase list because of these issues with scenery clipping, the lighting, etc.

 

This kind of thing is actually more annoying to me than other problems, for example, incorrect pathing at Secaucus and Newark. For something like that, sure it's sloppy, but I can understand putting a route together and not knowing about all the correct pathings, especially for such a complex route. I also don't expect things is this area to be 100% correct for what is, after all, a game.

However, how can you continue to have these impossible golds? Sure, it's not really relevant to the gameplay. But the medals are something that DTG invented themselves, for their own game. So, why don't they work? Also, most if not all of the freight and ECS services on SEHS are impossible golds, which DTG has acknowledged. I don't except them to ever go back and fix this, because traditionally DTG release a DLC and don't go back to fix anything, especially after so many other DLCs have been released in the intervening period. But to then just continue propagating the error forward? Is there anything, even one single thing, in NYT that represents an improvement over any of the DLCs that have come before it? Perhaps someone playing the route can think of something, but from the outside, it seems not.

 

The funny thing is DTG didn't have medals early on in TSW's life, that came about in the TSW2020 I believe. And I just have to say with how little care they give towards the scoring I have to ask why they thought it was a worthwhile addition. All it does is add another QA item which they clearly are either unable or (more likely) unwilling to preform. If they had left scoring as it was in TSW1 we'd not be complaining about medals, and it would make their lives just a bit easier.

 

Thanks and also Newark Penn Track 5 for the RVL. If DTG wants those drivable then they should make the RVL also 58 miles to add ALP-45DP for RVL Newark Penn Track 5 and M&E Montclair line Playable services and NJCL ALP-46A arrow III with RVL ALP-45DP layer. That way it's busy making NEC Trenton New Brunswick NY Penn close to real life.

 

Of course on to the next one...DTG always could careless bout the US content lol..I've said it many times, they need to cater and make sure the UK and German content gets done well and detailed!..lol sorry but thats how it is.

 

I’m just sad. This route deserved SO much better, yet it couldn’t even receive “good”. And now it’s seemingly tossed in the bin. I’d like for the next roadmap to give us some good news, but I’m seriously doubting it. This whole 29 page thread is looking to be for nothing.

See you guys in late 2024, when the next US passenger route releases.

 

I wonder how many of us will be comparing the timetables and counting the number of services on the upcoming UK and German routes.

 

I think the main reason behind the sharp criticism of this DLC release, in particular the NY-Trenton content, is because for US railfans we have no other rail corridor like it. The Northeast Corridor is OUR "high speed" (quote-unquote) and commuter electrified railroad. There is nothing else like it in our entire country and portions of it are barely older than many of the younger railfans on here. Those like myself that live near it and travel it know what it's supposed to "feel" like and know how operations are supposed to work on it. Even those that don't live near it, there are so many that are fascinated by its uniqueness and have an appreciation for the history of the corridor and what it means for travel in the northeastern states.

The marketing, and hype, and excitement leading up to release showed SO much promise, that research was performed dutifully and that an OFFICIAL Amtrak partner was recreating a stretch of some of their most valued railroad. We had hope that lessons were learned from the release of the Boston DLC, and that by partnering with a community member for fixing Boston further, we would have a prototypical route with nowhere near the amount of flaws of their first attempt at the NEC in TSW...

...and what we got were signalling issues, inaccurate operations, lazy timetabling, typos, graphical bugs, sound issues, incorrect history and equipment information... the Acela trainsets aren't even facing the right direction!

I understand being based in the UK doesn't allow for the ability to take a ride out to Moynihan Train Hall and watch the traffic downstairs for an idea of operations but there are SO many of us on here that do, and would be willing to help.

If the freeware NECv4 for MSTS could have accurate operations and less issues, why decades later on current gen consoles and PCs can we not have a better standard? Even the DTG NEC routes for TSC are better off, and have far more content.

This was an expensive DLC that came with it a lot of promise, I understand the disappointment held by so many, including myself. For now, I will continue to play the other Xbox TSW DLC I own, and enjoy the TSC Northeast Corridor on my PC and Raildriver until at least some of what we were promised is fulfilled.

 

only we would care about that. It would probably be at least double when you include the AI

 

What a great post

 

I think it is extremely relevant to the gameplay. This isn’t grand theft train sim world 3. If I operate my train in a prototypical manner … which for a trip to sunnyside means going most of the way between 3-5 mph with absolutely zero deductions it’s extremely frustrating to see bronze. Especially when I get in the cab and look at the schedule and say there’s no way in hell I’m getting an extra THOUSAND points for it.

 

I might be one of them lol...and I know more as well might do the same, to prove that DTG caters more for the UK and German content. Especially, that it sounds like they won't even take time to investigate and make some post patches to this NY-Trentom dlc. Now, I have heard they did a decent job for the Harlem line timetable and all, but I didn't get it because it only went up to North White Plains, should've went to Southeast..

 

I will be when the new steam route comes out which already sounds like a half hearted effort, scenically it will be lovely and I am sure well done but it starts in a very odd place and from what I can see the included branch line won't have it's local passenger service, and if it does it won't be realistic. Also, we don't even have a decent timetable for SOS. Crewe to Liverpool was quite a busy line, but it feels like a branch line which went on to be axed under the Beeching report.

I agree though that the USA passenger routes apart from Boston have been disappointing, I would say the German routes have come out the best although some are a bit short for me. I could pick holes in many UK routes but a lot of it probably would seem petty. BML I suppose is the benchmark for what you want to see in a route and even that has a whole tranche of services missing!

 

I do think that having a smaller loco like the 4f for pick-up goods, and banking services including some light runs will help round out the timetable more. A green peak and a DMU or a small passenger engine would have added valuable variety aswell though.

 

Well maybe but it doesn't answer the question of the Buxton to Millers Dale passenger service it also doesn't change the fact the Ambergate Junction is an odd if not ridiculous choice of starting point for the route as it was actually a fairly minor station. Maybe the 4F will layer into SOS but it doesn't answer the question of the stopping services being missing. They were used on passenger services but more on secondary lines like parts of the S&D and the M&SWJ.

 

That's a fair point, but to really get full timetables in the steam era a full collection of locos and stock needs to be built up. I think DTG could have done that better by starting with a small line that can be populated with 2 locos, and then a slightly bigger one, adding another 1-3 locos/units (be it steam or era appropriate diesel) which help make that route feel fully populated, and than a slightly bigger one, and so on until you actually have the variety needed for something like Liverpool-Crewe. Peak Forest could have been a good 3rd (or 2nd if DTG want's to push it and actually also add diesels to the offering, meaning it would have to come with a new steam loco, a green Peak and a green DMU, which is more than I expect from DTG) route to make. Liverpool-Crewe is just too demanding of a route to reacreate to start off with I think, but all this is slightly off-topic, and perhaps better fit for the Peak Forest thread .

 

If I was a betting man I'd put a lot of money on there being a small passenger tank engine DLC being released for SoS at the same time as the new steam route just like we saw either Acela

 

I couldn’t had said it better. I grew up right by the Harlem line by the Bronx so I hear you and share your frustration. I’m hoping that the fix it up and hopefully have bigger plans for it.I mean Boston has about 734 services and Harlem about 536 so with the new signaling and fixes and current of 300 we can double the amount and give this route some needed life…….

 

As someone who's familar with that area in real life, I'd say it's partially inaccurate. Especially nowadays.
Prior to Morrisville Yard being rebuilt for New Jersey Transit (preposterously omitted from this DLC) it was common to see two trains share a platform...on the outer tracks.

99.999% of the time it was SEPTA & NJT, and it was normally on the track to our immediate left of the trains in the photo, and to their right.
Here's an example, photo by Jeremiah Cox.

 

Pics tells the story..

 

Catenary posts sticking up out of the track is not a new phenomenon; there's one as you arrive in Bremen that you can't miss, yet someone did!

Another route where DTG do not come out smelling of roses, but this is surely predictable by now? Not sure what is said behind closed doors, but to the outside world the overriding feeling is that DTG churn out rather expensive DLCs, making quick post-launch patches if need be to silence dissention until the euphoria for the next DLC arrives. It must be evident to all by now that their business model relies on creating "limited-effort" content that will probably never be bugfixed unless a route is revisited à la SEHS. Because there is no real competition they know train folks (including myself) will keep buying despite of this. The fact they limit access to the editor to themselves or "partners" ensures they get a cut of any content revenue; those of us who remember FSW will know this is not hearsay or besmirchment but company policy. The current upper echelons of DTG management must now bitterly regret all the lost revenue due to releasing the original Rail Simulator with a public editor (what were you guys thinking?!).

However genuinely nice Matt and JD come across as people, the roadmap is unfortunately no longer a news bulletin for the state of the game, but increasingly an exercise in marketing with some PR thown in. They build up euphoria for the next releases whilst (mostly) turning a blind eye to players' frustrations.

Something needs to change, but I can only see something like a reboot of Microsoft Train Simulator having any long term effect upon this state of affairs.

 

The roadmap is a waste of time now really.

 

I mean, it still gives some interesting route developement insights, but those deserve their own devblogs I think. The roadmap could indeed use some refocussing on fixes instead.

I haven't watched the roadmap streams in a while is Adam still on them?

 

The gap between UK and DE routes appreciation and the US is enormous... US addons are like wastelands in terms of timetables, variety of trains, interchangeability, signalling, passengers system... There is not even one US route close to DRA or BML quality, and that is a fact.

 

I don’t watch them now, but I don’t think Adam is on them anymore.

 

AMEN

 

This is quite an old route... It says a lot about DTG

 

Those shots are pretty appalling. Maybe five years ago they might have been forgivable but not now.

 

Someone needs to find an advertising hoarding close to DTG HQ and get one of those images blown up so everyone at DTG gets a daily reminder on how terrible a job they've done with Trenton.

I'd throw a bit of cash into the kitty to get it done.

 

Well, the definition of Quality Assurance is " the maintenance of a desired level of quality in a product by paying close attention to every stage of production and delivery. "

To me that means delivering a product that is complete, fit for purpose and is as good as it can possibly be.

Now that route dlc are at the $40 level, this is more important than ever.

I wonder how the QA Czar, who was reportedly hired last year, is spending his/her time. Obviously he/she is not playing through any scenarios or services.

 

Well, according to DTG themselves, QA is only responsible for checking if every button in a train works and if anything causes the game to crash. If "it doesn't crash right away, yay" is the minimum desired quality for them, well, that explains a lot of things, lol.

 

The rest of the QA is done by us, the players that pay for the game, since every DLC seems to release in an beta state.

 

Agreed.

The roadmap streams were a lot better back then, especially with Sam or Adam as regulars on it.

Now it’s just a marketing stream with like a dozen questions answered at the end.


Communication on DTG’s part was actually quite good from late 2020 to just before Rush Hour in spring 2021. After that everything’s just gone downhill.


One thing I’ll say is that Matt’s charity stream last weekend was quite good because he answered several questions from the chat that we’d never have answered on the forums or on the roadmap (sorry, marketing) streams.

 

Ironically I would say 5 years ago the game looked like it has massive potential. I always look back to the SPG as a template for what came after it. That route had bugs, but the craft that was put into it, the nice details all over the place... wish we were getting that now... even though the tech has moved, there are so many problems with each release that it makes me wish for another 2017 SPG...

 

Bugs can be forgiven, because computer code can act in unexpected ways with a complex programme. However, scenery clipping through trains, incorrect numbers of collectables, unobtainable collectables and unobtainable gold medals should absolutely never exist. There is simply no excuse for this and any attempt to excuse this is quite frankly pathetic.

 

Same. When TSW first launched with Sand Patch Grade, the game showed great potential. Then GWE released, I remember reviews said it's a great add-on, though a bit short. But everyone agreed that if SPG and GWE were the minumum TSW standard and it's only uphill from here, then TSW has great future. Yet more than 5 years later we are still struggling quality wise... Sure, there have been many core improvemenets and new features introduced with each release, and it's great. But overall quality wise, it's a constant struggle. Some routes have great scenery, others have good timetables or good variety of rolling stock, and so on. But for some reason there is never a consistent quality that you can expect, and the number of obvious bugs and issues on launch day seem to be growing every time.

 

Couldn't agree more. SPG, which was not perfect, was a paradigm which has only occasionally been matched since.

The team which produced it was able to spend all the time they needed to make it as good as it was. Perhaps that's what is missing these days.

That said, I've spent most of today driving up and down NYT ( a rare luxury for me ). The trains, in and of themselves, are quite fun to drive and well modeled. There just aren't enough of them.

There's no questioning the rush you feel when being passed by an Amtrak express at full speed, for instance. But it's a pretty rare occurrence.

When you see the few lonely freight cars along the route, you realize just how much potential was lost.

Can it be brought to life? Maybe, but it would need a thorough revamping of the NJT timetable and some serious polishing of the scenery elements as well as the addition of some freight and LIRR action.

 

I always see SPG mentioned as the paragon of TSW routes, but seemingly overlooking that was the entire game at the time- probably 95% of the entire team was working on it.

They were launching a brand new game and I'd wager the budget for the route itself was at least an order of magnitude higher than any subsequent route. It came with 3 locos and ALL the rolling stock.

Tbh, i find it hard to believe DTG could make a profit with that level of spend on each route.

I'm really not trying to downplay ongoing quality issues- clearly the DLC release cadence is too fast, or the budget is too low, but i don't think replicating the SPG dev process is at all realistic.

 

SPG also had several years of development so that could be a reason why it was made into such high standard. After all, for a new product, you want good first impressions

 

Did NYT get the previous Boston signals. I’m hearing it has the name issues Boston had before. Reducing you to 30 miles when there’s no traffic in front. Sounds similar to the issues Boston had before

 

NYT signals use the Harlem method for pulse coding, some of the elements of Boston signal scripts that made them great, and then some other "magic" to determine the signal aspect. It's not yet perfected, but a decent start.

 

Thanks for the info. Hopefully they can get it to the way Boston is now. Harlem seems to be working much better as I ran the timetable from the 0400 in the morning to 1600 and didn’t see any stuck trains. NYT has lots of potential if the work on it

 

What kind of excuse is that? In what other game do you see their first launch content being the most quality, then the rest just barely hitting the mark years after? Development is supposed to progress and quality improve, not decline.

Is TSC content still pre-2010 Rail Simulator quality? No. Routes are longer and longer, models prettier, scenery better, simulation more detailed.

 

Despite our moaning we rail enthusiasts are quite a nice bunch. If TSW were an FPS or RPG, social media would be aflame, and Metacritic hit with 0/10 review bombs. The game regularly feeds our geeky virtual train-driving needs, but DTG’s working practices are definitely wearing thin.

 

Agreed. While it might seem we are... "toxic"... we really just want the game to do well and the content to be great. It doesn't have to burn in flames. But sadly what we want recently means to criticize almost every release...

 

No surprise that on todays roadmap nothing is mentioned about any upcoming fixes for the NYT route and that is even beng looked at. Like we mentioned, already forgotten and now on to the next, repeat