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On Manchester-leeds.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ProfCreeptonius, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    Also, looking forward to the dev stream this Thursday night on twitch 1800-1930hrs (announced earlier on Twitter)
     
  2. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    :mad: I don't mind them announcing it on FB & Twitter but it's the fact that DTG conspicuously fail to post such info in their own forum that annoys me! What's the point of having a News & Updates forum if DTG don't bother using it for this type of info?
     
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  3. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    Sorry Sam, that was my fault - I was off sick when the announcement was made but I'm now in the process of doing it. The post is now live - special announcement also now added ;)

    Best, Steve
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
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  4. Shaun123

    Shaun123 New Member

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    Not going to lie, I’m excited for tomorrow!
     
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  5. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Member

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    Do you have actual figures to back this up, or is it just an assumption?

    Correct.
     
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  6. Manclion

    Manclion Member

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    Regional Railways called it the 'northern trans-pennine' route during the BR era. I don't see why they shouldn't make a route during the 1980s , a bit of variety is a good thing surely.
     
  7. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    Manclion I don’t think the arguement is that it shouldn’t be made, rather how popular it is likely to be. To give a simple example the majority of console users are probably a younger demographic group and they’re probably more interested in contemporary routes and locos. Not universally true, but likely. So the likely buyers of this DLC might be coming from a smaller base of the community, say older PC users ~ and obviously biased towards UK players.

    It’s even difficult to tell from postings on this forum what’s going to be popular. LIRR had and maintains a pretty vociferous ‘fan base’ on this board but the available data suggests, that at least from a PC point of view, that sales haven’t been stellar. Both that route and the upcoming NTP route I think are generally welcomed by the community, as you say variety is good, the question is whether either are going to be the blockbuster title that TSW desperately needs, in particular to get the TS1 user base moving across.

    The NTP era appeals to me, an older Brit, and as I see it this is a good opportunity for DTG to demonstrate that they can deliver good clean DLC. In this era I would have thought there are less complexities to model. So, for example the BR signaling systems of the era are less complex than those on today’s hi speed and crowded commuter routes. The locos themselves although they may have more Byzantine start up procedures (boilers etc.) they don’t need the reproduction of all of the computerized systems you see in contemporary cabs. Even the rolling stock should be simpler. Slam doors don’t need interlocks and electronic destination boards didn’t exist.

    Of course to be truly representative of the BR era in question DTG will need to add an extra level of grime to the rolling stock and ASLEF may prevent you running the scenarios on official strike days. To complete immersion a couple of slightly dry ham and cheese sandwiches together with a strong cup of sugared tea (or a can of Shandy Bass for the more adventurous) are recommended.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
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  8. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Member

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    Does anyone know anyone at Steam? They'll have data on the average age of TS users, as most content will be bought/downloaded from Steam, and you need a user account... so voilá... the information you seek is there.

    Personally... I can't see Train Sim as a young person's thing really. Most kids I know don't have the attention span for it.

    ...and to be frank... the more software companies that stop pandering to consoles, the better. Make stuff configurable so people with crappy hardware can make it run instead of crippling the software for more better equipped users.
     
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  9. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    I’m not sure that anyone from Steam is going to share that info, friend or not, but there is information on usage that others have posted on here.

    The problem with Steam is that it’ll only contain PC users so as far as I’m aware Console data isn’t available publically anywhere.

    As for the younger generation not having the attention span a) younger doesn’t necessarily mean kids, there’s a really big demographic of users aged 18-30 and b) as much as it’s suggested they lack attention span isn’t it also true that they’re meant to spend vast amounts of hours on complex video games? If they don’t have the attention span it certainly isn’t true when it comes to video games.

    Learning to drive a loco may be complex, but compared with the various levels and complexity of some of the role playing games it’s probably not that onerous.

    As for DTG having to deal with PC vs. console issues that’s the price they have to pay, and will have to go on paying, when they made the decision to support multiple platforms. The increased market access has a price.

    As much as people say DTG is a small company they don’t make life easy for themselves with the business decisions they make. It’s also interesting to speculate how much further forward/better TSW would have been if it had been either for PC or consoles, but not both.

    However it is a decision that they made and one they will have to continue to juggle.
     
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  10. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    Wow and you wonder why you get called the PC master race
     
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  11. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Member

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    Seriously? You're getting upset because someone called your console crap? Just.... wow. It's just a thing... it's not like I kicked your dog or anything. So sensitive.

    [edit] p.s I've never wondered that at all... ever.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
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  12. Gae14

    Gae14 New Member

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    When a new route is going to be released I always like to find references, check Google Maps...to get a first glimpse of what we are going to get.

    So, I've noticed on Wikipedia that back then there was two stops called Miles Platting and Park (which are now closed) on the Manchester area, and I was expecting these to appear on this DLC. Thing is, these two stops do not appear on the map provided on NTPs manual.

    I was wondering if it was me that did wrong reseaches ?
     
  13. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    Miles Platting and Park stations are present in NTP and are not shown on the route map in the manual because I couldn't find a good enough digital map of the area in the time period represented :)

    The manual will be updated to add these stations in.

    Best, Steve
     
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  14. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    Not upset no. What you think isn’t going to affect my opinion. Just being ‘frank’ as you put it. It’s funny how you make a fool of yourself though. Sounds like you’re the one upset because Dovetail dare make titles not exclusive to you. Bite your lip, you may just get over it
     
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  15. DANNYBOY2487

    DANNYBOY2487 Active Member

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    it's based in the 80s so class 101, 45 and 47
     
  16. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    Not long until the stream on twitch
     
  17. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Member

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    They will fix "shortly" indeed (or has been already fixed), but.... it rains inside stations :facepalm:
     
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  18. ProfCreeptonius

    ProfCreeptonius Well-Known Member

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    So first impressions anyone?
    I see good's and bad's:
    Let's kick it of with a bad: Ts2prototype Screenshot 2018.12.13 - 20.55.46.08.png
    And two goods:
    1. Non-translucent 101 cab is this reality!?!?!?
    2. I see what ya did there DTG :3 Ts2prototype Screenshot 2018.12.13 - 20.59.36.69.png
    I really like special services and am very thankful this one got added. I'll be working on an updated signalling guide and more!
    Tell me what you like/dislike about NTP/Huddersford line!
     
  19. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    I saw that too on the live stream, it was raining through the roof at Leeds station. It's not like the precipitation occlusion is missing on a little bridge in the middle of no where, it was Leeds station, one of the main stations on the route. How can QA miss that?!
     
  20. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Very briefly from me;

    Very good points....

    - Locos & rolling stock is excellent
    - Track & immediate trackside scenery is very good
    - The Route itself is a cracker
    - Very good FPS
    - Nice touch with the 80s cars, people etc.

    Bad points

    -Some really low quality textures. Early TS1 low.
    -Stations (particularly Leeds) seriously lacking in clutter and ‘life’. There were posters, signs, vending machines etc in the 80s!
    -The scenery beyond the immediate vicinity of the line is actually a bit of a disappointment. Sparse and low quality in a lot of places...again looking like early TS1
    - Why do the roads have no white lines, why are there no pavements etc?

    I’d definitely recommend it but the inconsistency continues to baffle me. RSN looks awesome and runs well. This runs well and bits of it look lovely, but it just doesn’t hit RSN’s heights in terms of scenery quality.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
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  21. Rob39

    Rob39 Active Member

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    Just a thought. Is it possible that the leaking roof was infact a deliberate feature intended for Leeds, and the script somehow found its way onto Lirr? Lirr came out 1st but may not have been in development as long.
     
  22. Pensfanvw

    Pensfanvw New Member

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    Looking forward to this signaling guide Prof!
     
  23. Shaun123

    Shaun123 New Member

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    I’m really happy with this route, very authentic, even though I’ve only travelled on the route in the 2000’s, there are places that are instantly recognisable.

    Driving the 45/47/101 are all very immersive, it’s not an easy task, like these modern loco/DMU’s!

    Few points:

    Slightly disappointed in the service range, thought there would have been more, eg: Man Vic-Stalybridge/Huddersfield shuttles. But I guess DTG have gone off the WTT for that year so assume authentic.

    The rain through the roof at Leeds from the stream, a tad annoying but the rest of the route is that good, it doesn’t bother me.

    There’s an incorrect speed limit near Morley, very small section of track where it drops to 50 with no warning for a second then back to 60.

    Service 07:21 Leeds - Man Vic with the Class 45, within the speed limit, no SPAD, derailed in Gledholt tunnels, anyone else able to recreate that?

    Manchester Vic-Huddersfield is the highlight of the section for me, Standege tunnel/Marsden area are beautiful.
     
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  24. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    It’s most likely a bug, or an issue that is still to be resolved/fixed by the looks of things.

    If they were to make it leak intentionally, then it’d only be small sections of the roof, if you want to make it look realistic. I assume that ALL rain is going straight through, as if there isn’t anything there?

    The rain through roofs was obviously an afterthought and not touched or dealt with for whatever reason.
     
  25. Pensfanvw

    Pensfanvw New Member

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    Nice review Shaun. Haven't had much time to try this route other than the tutorials.
     
  26. KMAN

    KMAN New Member

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    I am really enjoying the route I would of liked more AI services at Leeds and Manchester going to portals just to add more traffic.
    But that's something we the community can add once the Editor is released. Hopefully next year but who knows.
    The BR Blue stuff is hard to drive you have to think and brake early and calculate the stopping distance. The Air/vacuum brakes don't have the same braking efficiency as more modern units.
    I have encountered a bug when I returned to a scenario after saving it would not let me move the controls.
     
  27. Shaun123

    Shaun123 New Member

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    This is the best route released for TSW in my opinion, but agreed the AI is sparse, Leeds and Manchester Vic should be bustling!
     
  28. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    I've decided to hold off on buying until either the editor is released or it's 50% off in a sale. From what I gather, whilst it's relatively bug free it has the usual issue of little road traffic, people or animals as well as a sparse AI service. Some of the scenery also looks quite bland in places, which at times is exacerbated by strange lighting effects, especially noticeable are wet fields which look like lakes.

    I think if they'd gone for a mix of freight and passenger like on RSN and taken a little extra time to make the world feel a little more 'lived in' they would have been on to a winner, but as it stands the reception seems to have been a bit lukewarm. They still haven't managed to best RSN in my opinion.
     
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  29. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    Agree with this. Its a good route and enthusiasts of the 80s will like it, but the texture quality is poor compared to what we know is possible, and the world is still dead despite some good efforts at station background noise etc. Its fun but ts2018 is still more immersive. I think that its not going to improve either as it seems the twin pressures of fps and consoles drive down the graphical potential- this isnt a swipe at consoles by the way so dont have a funny five over that comment ;)
    Overall opinion- if you like 80s stuff then its maybe worth it but in all honesty you might want to consider a good ts2018 80s era addon instead.
     
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  30. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    May I suggest to PN & DD that if you don’t have it, that you spend your money on RSN instead. It’s really worth every penny, unlike NTP sadly, a route I was really looking forward to.

    The latter came so close, but the really poor scenery quality & texturing has let down a great concept and some nicely done locamotives & rolling stock. Unfortunately, the more I use it the more bugs pop up too. There are some quite major lighting issues that render nighttime & a number of weather conditions all but useless.

    Instead of improving on RSN, sadly it seems like a backward step has been taken with NTP.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
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  31. ASRGT

    ASRGT Active Member

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    I am glad i am not the only one who has found the the lack of occlusion on cabs annoying, its fixed in this DLC lets hope they learn how to correct this for all locos past and in future.
     
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  32. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Member

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    That's not a 101. It's a 108 Derby unit.
     
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  33. ProfCreeptonius

    ProfCreeptonius Well-Known Member

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    Ooops didn't notice. Looked like 101 on first glance so I assumed it is. My apologies.
     
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  34. Jasonic

    Jasonic New Member

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    Really enjoying this route though like others have said could do with some freight and more AI and a bit more atmosphere in the main stations with staff and sounds.
    I also wish you could be the guard, would make a change from driving.
     
  35. KMAN

    KMAN New Member

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    I ran the game a few times and pretended to be a guard on the class 101.
    I stand on the platform and make sure it is clear then get in via the guards door and press the guard to driver bell.
    It would be nice if there were more to do like check tickets. Help passengers with bikes and other luggage and store in the guard area. Then remember what stop to unload it at. Would be like a mini game.
    Who knows this maybe a future feature.
     
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  36. Jasonic

    Jasonic New Member

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    Yeah I have done the same, would be good closing any doors then checking the signal was off, would be a lot better if when ringing the bell it actually did something.
    Of course with the loco hauled stock you would have to wave a green flag at the driver when ready to depart.
    Lets hope the future does bring it.
     
  37. KMAN

    KMAN New Member

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    Glad I am not the only one!
    I would even settle for an animated overlay/video clip like in the picture. Guardawayyougo.png
     
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  38. Rudolf

    Rudolf Active Member

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    Might be nice but is this the feature that should have a high priority? I think this game is about driving trains in a realistic way. There still is a lot to do in improving signalling, getting steam engines to work and provide us with enough variety of rolling stock and first of all content creation tools.
     
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