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Pacific Surfliner Detailed Proposal

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by EpilepticWeasel, Nov 16, 2020.

  1. EpilepticWeasel

    EpilepticWeasel Member

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    In light of the list of most requested routes that you came out with on the stream on Friday, as the Pacific Surfliner was one of the most highly requested routes, coming it at number 7 I believe, I wanted to put together a more detailed proposal for you to look at.


    The entire route of the Pacific Surfliner spans about 350 miles from San Luis Obispo to San Diego. Obviously that would be a very large undertaking seeing as Train Sim World 2 does not have a route that exceeds 60 miles as of yet and not to mention just unnecessary. There are numerous solutions and ways that this can be broken up. Here are some of my suggestions:



    San Diego to San Juan Capistrano

    San Diego to Los Angeles

    Los Angeles to Santa Barbara



    I will go over some of the pros and cons of each one. The Pacific Surfline is essentially broken up into a northern section and a southern section. The northern section is the portion from Los Angeles to San Luis Obispo and the Southern section is the portion from San Diego to Los Angeles. Most of my experience with the coastline was between around 2010-2015 so this will be the time period and operating style I will be referencing and suggesting (yes I know some things have changed since then).



    San Diego to San Juan Capistrano


    Starting with San Diego to San Juan Capistrano, this would be the shortest of my suggested options coming in at around a length of 70 miles. This route features the best portion of the southern section. This route is stunning and offers a lot of coastline running and some winding canyon sections just north of San Diego. The southern section sees the most passenger train action out the two major sections. Pacific Surfliner stations on this section of the route include (moving from south to north) Downtown San Diego, Old Town San Diego, Solana Beach, Oceanside, San Clemente Pier, and San Juan Capistrano. For a total of 6 stations. A one way trip on this route with Amtrak’s given timetable is about 1 hour and 40 minutes. I chose San Juan Capistrano as a northern end point because that is roughly the first stop after the line leaves the coast.



    Another advantage of this section of the route is that there is opportunity for a second commuter train, the Coaster. Coaster runs from San Diego to Oceanside and has a large servicing facility just a few miles north of Oceanside. Stations the Coaster services on this line are (moving from south to north) San Diego-SF Depot (Downtown), Old Town San Diego, Sorrento Valley, Solana Beach, Encinitas, Carlsbad Poinsettia, Carlsbad Village, and Oceanside. For a total of 8 stations. A one way trip takes approximately 1 hour and 5 minutes.



    San Diego to Los Angeles


    This route will obviously feature all of the same areas I talked about above, so I will only cover the differences seen from San Juan Capistrano to Los Angeles.



    In addition to the 6 stations previously mentioned, the Pacific Surfliner serves the stations of Irvine, Santa Ana, Anaheim, Fullerton, and Union Station in Los Angeles. This brings the total number of stations to 11. An average one way trip takes approximately 3 hours. This is obviously a considerably longer route for a total of approximately 128 miles. However, it adds more opportunities and has the advantage of tying together two of Southern California’s biggest and most well-known cities with scenery ranging from urban Los Angeles right along the LA river to the suburbs of Orange County right by the Angels Stadium in Anaheim to the beaches of San Diego.



    The Coaster would still be able to be featured on this route in the same capacity as listed above.



    Another advantage of this route is that you can add in a third commuter passenger service, being Los Angeles’ Metrolink. Metrolink serves this line between Oceanside and Los Angeles Union Station. Stations served include (from south to north) Oceanside, San Clemente, San Juan Capistrano, Laguna Niguel/Mission Viejo, Irvine, Tustin, Santa Ana, Orange, Anaheim, Fullerton, Buena Park, Norwalk/Santa Fe Springs, Commerce, and L.A. Union Station. For a total of 14 stations served. Average one way trip is approximately 2 hours.



    BNSF also runs freight along this line between Los Angeles and Fullerton where it splits off from the route of the passenger service and heads towards San Bernardino and Cajon Pass. BNSF operates several dozen freight trains a day along this route as it is the beginning of their Transcon line between LA and Chicago. Most of the traffic is all intermodal. BNSF also has occasional freight trains that travel all the way down the coastline to San Diego.



    The Southwest Chief, one of Amtrak’s Superliners, operates between Los Angeles and Fullerton. While I am not sure if this is a long enough stretch to consider the Southwest Chief as a potential option (especially because it only has two stops) it is still a possibility and therefore I will mention it.



    Los Angeles to Santa Barbara



    This next section of the Pacific Surfline is the beginning of the northern section. North of Los Angeles there are less daily Pacific Surfliner trains than the southern section but this line offers additional opportunities that the southern section does not offer. This route stretches for approximately 96 miles.



    The Pacific Surfliner services the stations of Los Angeles Union Station, Glendale, Hollywood Burbank Airport, Van Nuys, Chatsworth, Simi Valley, Moorpark, Camarillo, Oxnard, Ventura, Carpinteria, and Santa Barbara. For a total of 12 stations. The average one way trip takes approximately 2 hours and 45 minutes. This section of the line features the sprawling urban empire of Los Angeles stretching all the way to Chatsworth, where it then enters the hills on the Los Angeles County and Ventura County Line, this section features large curves and two tunnels and then passes by the old historic Santa Susanna Depot. The train continues north through the Ventura County suburbs where it goes through hundreds maybe even thousands of acres of farm fields. The line finally arrives in Ventura where it catches its first glimpse of the Pacific Ocean north of LA. From Ventura to Santa Barbara the train runs primarily right along the coast, high above the water on the cliffs in certain sections. It then arrives at the historic and beautiful Santa Barbara Station.



    An advantage of this line that the southern section does not have, is the incorporation of one of Amtrak’s long distance Superliner trains, the Coast Starlight. The Coast Starlight runs between Los Angeles and Seattle with one northbound and one southbound train per day. The Coast Starlight serves the stations of Los Angeles Union Station, Burbank Airport, Van Nuys, Simi Valley, Oxnard, and Santa Barbara. For a total of 6 stations. The Coast Starlight is typically pulled by 2 P42DC locomotives and features about 11 Superliner cars and a baggage car.



    Metrolink’s Ventura County Line services this section of the route as well. Metrolink serves the stations of Los Angeles Union Station, Glendale, Burbank-Downtown, Burbank Airport, Van Nuys, Northridge, Chatsworth, Simi Valley, Moorpark, Camarillo, Oxnard, and Ventura-East. For a total of 12 stations. The average one way trip is approximately 1 hour and 50 minutes. Not all Metrolink trains terminate at Ventura East on this line, they start and stop at various locations. Moorpark has a small yard and storage facility that is used as one such termination point.



    Union Pacific runs some freight trains along this line as well. There is not as much through freight as there used to be but Union Pacific still operates a number of trains that could additionally be incorporated into this line. Union Pacific runs a number of locals on the line. One local runs between GEMCO yard (right by Van Nuys Station) and Oxnard, does some switching of cars, and then turns around and heads back. Others run from GEMCO yard to Guadalupe (near Santa Maria) and then back the next day. As I remember the schedule, the LOF67 runs northbound from GEMCO to Guadalupe on Mondays and Thursdays. The LOF66 runs southbound from Guadalupe to GEMCO on Tuesdays and Fridays. The LOF65 runs from GEMCO to Oxnard and back again on Wednesdays. There is also the coast line oil train known as the “Oilcans”. This train runs on an as needed basis between Dolores (in the harbor area of LA) to north of Paso Robles where it is loaded and then returns south with loaded oil. This train runs along the entire route. On occasion Union Pacific will have empty Autorack trains run down the coast or empty well cars that are being moved from northern California down the coast. On rare occasions through freight will sometimes run on the coast if the Tehachapi Pass gets shut down because of a derailment or other scheduled long term maintenance. Military trains are sometimes run out to the military base near Oxnard. The nice thing about freight traffic is that it can really be made to fit anything that is desired.



    The northern section could be continued to Goleta because Goleta is the termination point for most of the Pacific Surfliner routes north of LA, however it does not add anything significant to the route for the additional 8-10 miles. Santa Barbara makes sense for an ending spot of the route because Santa Barbara has a very long siding that extends to the north of the station that would make a good termination or starting point for any freight trains.



    Equipment


    Pacific Surfliner

    The Surfliner has traditionally operated F59PHI locomotives in conjunction with matching bi-level passenger cars. Each consist typically has 5-6 cars and the end opposite of the locomotive is a cab car.




    The Surfliner recently began using the new Siemens Charger locomotives.




    Coaster


    Coaster operates F59PHI locomotives similar to the Pacific Surfliner as well as a variant of the F40.


    Coaster operates the same bombardier coaches and cab/cars seen on the DLC for Caltrain.




    Metrolink


    Metrolink used to operate F59PHI locomotives like the Pacific Surfliner and Coaster.



    They also operated another variant the F59PH




    Their current fleet consists of MP36PH’s.




    And EMD F125s in the new paint scheme.




    Metrolink operates bombardier coaches in their old paint scheme.


    And Hyundai Rotem Bi-Level cars in the new paint scheme.






    Coast Starlight


    The Coast Starlight operates Amtrak’s P42DC locomotives and bi-level Superliner cars.


    BNSF


    BNSF operates several locomotives on its freight service including C44-9W’s and ESS44 series locomotives.



    Union Pacific


    Union Pacific has traditionally used SD70ACe locomotives on its local services and oilcan trains. Although any number of their locomotives can be seen on their trains on the coast line including SD70Ms, ES44 series locomotives, and C44-9s or AC44s.



    Conclusion



    I think that the two best iterations of this route would be either San Diego to Los Angeles, or Los Angeles to Santa Barbara. I added the San Diego to San Juan Capistrano because it is shorter and may be the only option to build (I am not sure how long of a route DTG can build). However, I think the two longer routes really do add a lot of options, they would be incredibly fun routes to run all kinds of different trains on, and there is a ton of options for DLC that could make DTG investment worthwhile for building a longer route.



    Going back to my point about the 2010-2015 time period, my recommendation for equipment to come with the routes is as follows. With the southern route (San Diego to Los Angeles), you could release with the Pacific Surfliner F59PHI locomotive, bi-level cabcar, and potentially one other railroad either being the Metrolink or the Coaster. This allows the third to be left for a DLC. All three railroads operate the F59PHI locomotive which makes building and use of that locomotive more economic for DTG. Metrolink uses the MP36 and both Metrolink and Coaster use Bombardier passenger cars, all of these have already been built for Caltrain and would just need to be reskinned. Coaster uses the same F40 locomotive as Caltrain. Another easy reskin. Therefore a Metrolink release could be with the F59PHI and/or MP36 locomotive and bombardier cab-car, potentially saving the other for a DLC. Coaster could be released with either the F59PHI and/or F40 with the bombardier cabcar and the other could be saved for a DLC. All Amtrak cabcars and locomotives utilize the K5LA horn, as does Coaster. Metrolink uses the P2 that is present on the Caltrain peninsula corridor.



    These different passenger lines diversify the playstyle because the Metrolink and Coaster are all stop services made for commuting, while the Surfliner itself is a less frequent stopping travel option.



    Amtrak’s Southwest Chief could potentially be a DLC although it only operates between Los Angeles and Fullerton along this route which is only a small portion with two stops.



    I have heard that BNSF is not a license DTG could obtain so I won’t go into much there. But if it was there is potential there to utilize BNSF trains between LA and Fullerton as well as switching operations in yards near Commerce City. BNSF also operates some trains along the portion of the route that goes to San Diego. If a BNSF license is a possibility that opens up lots more potential DLC for DTG.



    The northern route (Los Angeles to Santa Barbara) could be released with the Pacific Surfliner F59PHI locomotive, bi-level cabcar, and the Union Pacific SD70ACe for operation on the locals from GEMCO to Oxnard/Guadalupe and also on the oilcans and other through freight trains. SD70ACe’s were the primary locomotive used on these trains during the time period I have suggested. Metrolink could be released as a DLC utilizing the F59PHI and/or MP36 locomotives and bombardier cars. DTG could also create the F59PH locomotive that Metrolink uses that would create even more diversity amongst locomotives. The Coast Starlight with the P42DC and Superliner cars could also be released as a DLC on the northern route adding a fun long distance passenger service option. I believe the Coast Starlight and P42DC would be a great selling DLC because it is such a cool train and locomotive. The P42DC could also be worked in to the Pacific Surfliner timetable services as it frequently was used on those trains when there were not enough F59PHI’s.



    Another DLC option for either the northern or southern route could be the new Pacific Surfliner Siemens Charger locomotive this would further diversify the locomotive roster for this route and would be something new and different and would tie in the more modern era of the Pacific Surfliner..



    Another Metrolink DLC option could be to release the Hyundai Rotem cars with the F125 locomotive in the new paint scheme. If the base game came with either the MP36 and/or F59PHI with bombardier cars in the old paint scheme, this new DLC would again bring the more modern era to the route and further diversify the locomotive roster.



    All in all, the southern route has options for 4 different railroads (Amtrak Pacific Surfliner, Coaster, Metrolink, and possibly BNSF). Two potential Surfliner locomotives (F59PHI and Siemens Charger), two potential Coaster locomotives (F40 and F59PHI), four potential Metrolink locomotives (F59PHI, F59PH, MP36, and F125), and BNSF freight locomotives. That is potential for 8 or more different locomotives. Three different styles of passenger cars (Surfliner Bi-level, Bombardier for Coaster and Metrolink, and Hyundai Rotem cars for Metrolink).



    The northern route has options for 4 different railroads (Amtrak Pacific Surfliner, Amtrak Superliner, Metrolink, and Union Pacific). Two potential Surfliner locomotives (F59PHI and Siemens Charger), four potential Metrolink locomotives (F59PHI, F59PH, MP36, and F125), one potential Amtrak Superliner locomotive (P42DC), and Union Pacific freight locomotives ranging from SD70ACe and GP38 or GP40 to any other possible locomotives DTG may decide to release. That is potential for 8 or more different locomotives. Four different styles of passenger cars (Surfliner Bi-level, Superliner Bi-level, Bombardier for Metrolink, and Hyundai Rotem cars for Metrolink).



    Both of these routes are long but are ripe with opportunity for new railroads and DLC options utilizing a lot of the same equipment that has already been built for Train Sim World 2. I know that I would certainly purchase this route as well as all DLC’s made for it. This is one of my favorite routes and I grew up riding these trains, watching these trains, and seeing them on a nearly daily basis. Something that I think would make these routes different form nearly all other Train Sim World 2 routes is that they mostly operate on single track which means when you build in the timetables and AI there will be a portion of waiting for other trains at sidings and other trains waiting for you which is something somewhat unique in the Train Sim World 2 game so far. Ultimately I think this route would be a very large money maker for DTG if done right. I think the base route would be widely purchased due to the uniqueness, beauty, and popularity of the route and trains. I think the DLC options would be extremely popular as well and add potential for lots of extra services and timetables while including very popular locomotives and very popular railroads.



    This is a small chart that shows the overlapping usefulness of some of these suggestions and therefore getting more diversity and use out of potential items.
     
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  2. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Biggest issue is licensing.

    Its been stated in a stream that BNSF will not come to TSW2 in any shape or form. So don't expect to see any of their equipment on any of the proposals.

    Also both Coaster and Metrolink didn't allow their branding for their respective DLCs in Train Simulator, so unless DTG can work out a new deal between either companies, don't expect them in TSW2 either (Doesn't seem like DTG does 1st party unbranded DLCs anymore.).

    The most logical route would be north of LA, due to the ability to add Union Pacific to the route.

    Granted, it would be nice to see the line south of LA with both BNSF and Metrolink involved, but I just don't see it happening any time soon.
     
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  3. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    That, and it provides buyers with trackage not already available in TS2021, which reduces duplication and might sway some people who already own the Surfliner in TS2021 to get it in TSW2. The northern section from LA to SLO would also make room for a Coast Starlight DLC later down the line, which I would love to see. ;)
    Unfortunately, despite being the most popular American route on Sam's list, the combination of route length and licensing issues means that we will not likely see the Surfliner for some time to come, if ever.
     
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  4. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    The license agreement can be talked about. I don’t think DTG will agree to spend time and effort to make a route of more than 100 miles. The United States is a magical country that maximizes capital interests.
    Now, what is the route for DTG to have a US license? It can be expanded with multiple DLCs to satisfy players' satisfaction with long-distance travel in the United States. I also look forward to a long American route.
     
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  5. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    The best solution for DTG is to extend DLC on existing routes, such as "Cumberland County"
     
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  6. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    The Pacific Surfliner was one of my favourite routes in Train Simulator, but partly because of its length. Not sure it'd be equally as fun when cut into a smaller part. It offered quite a few different landscapes, and it's also relatively high speed. Trains look cool too :P
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
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  7. aeterna

    aeterna New Member

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    I do not like when they take a ts route and give us the half or quarter of it. If they could get the licenses, I think they would go for oceanside to san diago, not even the full coast. Or union station to fullerton only. I don’t think they would bother on the northern side. These are my guesses of course, but even sd to oceanside would be a beautiful route.
     
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  8. BlackTabby

    BlackTabby Member

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    As an Angelino (Los Angeles resident), I think this is a great idea. Although, it does seem a bit long
     

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