Paris St Lazare - Mantes-la-jolie (- Vernon): The Parisian Commute

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by jolojonasgames, Jun 20, 2021.

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  1. Yes

    40 vote(s)
    78.4%
  2. Yes, but only if the BB 27300 + VB 2N coaches came as standard instead of the Z 26500

    5 vote(s)
    9.8%
  3. maybe, if it's on sale

    2 vote(s)
    3.9%
  4. no

    4 vote(s)
    7.8%
  1. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Hi all, welcome to my first French suggestion. As the safety systems for France are already in game with LGV, it would be easier to make more French routes. On top of that more French routes could be really fun and would offer some great variety. That's why I'm suggesting this French route, which unlike LGV doesn't focus on high speed traffic, but on local commuter traffic into one of the world's most famous cities: Paris.

    [​IMG]
    Multiple VB 2N coaches at Paris-Saint-Lazare.

    Contents
    • The route
      • General description
      • Services
      • Cab rides
    • Rolling Stock
      • What comes with the route as standard?
        • Z 50000 'Francilien'
        • Z 26500
      • What could be DLC?
        • BB 27300 + VB 2N coaches
        • MI 09
        • BB 22200
        • BB 60000
    • Final Words
    • Pictures

    The route
    [​IMG]

    General description

    The route starts at Paris-Saint-Lazare, which unlike other major Parisian stations serves very little long distance traffic, instead focussing on local 'Transilien' traffic, which occupies tracks 1-17, 26 and 27. From Saint-Lazare we travel throuh the busy suburbs of Paris, where the line splits into two as the line runs along both banks of the Seine until Mantes. The southern section runs through the National Forest of Saint-Germain, where there is a large freight yard, before returning to the banks of the river Seine, serving many of the towns and cities along the south bank of this famous river. The northern line runs through the Parisian suburbs a little longer, before also returning to the banks of the Seine, where it meets the southern line at Mantes.

    The line has many busy branches and has a lot of stops for local traffic, especially in the area near Paris. It is one of the busiest commuter networks of the world (sometimes even falsely claimed to be the busiest). At rush hour some lines (RER A) have as much as one train every 2 minutes and 20 second, making the frequency close to that of metros.

    The line is very commuter focussed, but also features large freight yards and two important industrial connections for the Renault and Citroên car factories. All in all the large amount of diversity, with many branches gives a very network like feeling (like Cathcart Circle, Rhein-Ruhr Osten or Hauptstrecke Rhein-Ruhr). There are also many depots and sidings used by the Transilien and RER services, which will allow for some depot runs in the timetable.

    Maximum speeds are as high as 160 km/h on the southern bank of the Seine, with the northern bank having a max speed of 130 km/h and the area near Saint-Lazare being somewhat slower. However, not all rolling stock is capable of going 160 km/h, and the short distances between some stops will further slow down traffic.

    Possible extensions
    The dark blue lines in the map above have a total length of 110 km, but as large portions run on opposite sides of the river (and thus requiring less scenery to have to be built for both lines, as they use the same scenery), extensions and branches might still be possible (light blue on the map above). The first is extending the line to Vernon-Giverny, which would give regional TER Normandie services and Transilien Line J more stops. This extension would be 23 km long. Another option would be a branch towards Cergy le Haut, crossing under the line on the north bank of the Seine, which would give Transilien line L and RER A more stops, which would be needed if DTG wanted to give RER A a reasonable amount of stops to facilitate a DLC loco which operates them. The extension to Cergy le Haut would be 15 km long.

    Services
    Due to the unique style of services (multiple lines, devided in different groups for different directions) creating a timetable like I normally do on my other suggestions becomes somewhat difficult, therefore I have edited a few system maps to show stopping patterns, which I hope will give a clear image of the services on this line. In the top map the stops of Transilien line J and TER Normandie services can be seen, and on the bottom map line L and RER A. A black dot means that services terminate at this station, and a black arrow means that services leave the route I'm suggesting.

    [​IMG]

    Cab rides

    This cab ride shows the route from Saint-Lazare along the southern bank of the Seine towards Vernon and beyond on an Intercity service (it can only be watched on Youtube, not on other sites).


    This cab rides takes us in the same direction, until Mantes-la-Jolie on a commuter service.


    This cab ride takes us from Saint-Lazare to Cergy le Haut, along line L.


    The route form Mantes-la-Jolie to Paris-Saint-Lazare.


    This last one takes us from Paris-Saint-Lazare to Mantes-la-Jolie, via the northern line over Conflans. It also includes a small depot run.


    Rolling stock

    The rolling stock that operates on a route is just as important as the route itself in creating an interesting experience for players. In this section I'll list what rolling stock this route could feature.

    What comes with the route as standard?

    As always, a route comes standard with one or two trains.

    Z 50000 'Francilien'
    [​IMG]

    4 units at Saint-Lazare in different liveries.

    The Francilien (the French word for someone from the Île de France region), also referred to as Z 50000 or NAT (Nouvelle Automotrice Transilien), is a recent addition to SNCF's commuter fleet, intended to replace old rolling stock from the '70s and '80s. They have a maximum speed of 140 km/h and consist of 7 coaches on lines J and L, as 2 8-coach consists don't fit inside of the platforms at the same time. Unlike other French suburban rolling stock, the Francilien isn't a double deck EMU but a has just one level. The entire unit consits of 2nd class, with no 1st class seats being present. As mentioned previously, these units operate both line J and L, which is also the reason I chose them to come as standard, as they would immediately facilitate a busy timetable. The Francilien operates out of Saint-Lazare in two different liveries which are both pictured in the image above, the Carmillon livery and the Île-de-France Mobilités livery, which would both be fun to see to increasy variety. More info on wikipedia.


    Z 26500
    [​IMG]

    The Z 26500, also referred to as TER 2N NG is a double deck EMU consisting of 4 or 5 coaches. On this line it operates the TER Normandie services out of Paris Saint-Lazare. These units have a max speed of 160 km/h. It often can be seen operating with two coupled 5-coach sets on this route due to the large amount of passengers travelling to and from Paris-Saint-Lazare each day. More info on wikipedia.


    What could be DLC?
    The route has many possibilities for loco add-ons, I'll list some of the options below.

    BB 27300 + VB 2N coaches
    [​IMG]

    Many of the suburban Transilien line J services are operated by the electric BB 27300 locomotive with VB 2N double deck coaches in push-pull operations. Both the locomotive and the coaches have a top speed of 140 km/h. The BB 27300 is functioning as a stop gap measure until more modern multiple units replace the older coaches, which is planned for 2025. The BB 27300 is based of a freight loco design, and replaces older locomotives that weren't strong enough to pull the heavy double deck VB 2N coaches. The VB 2N coaches were built in the '70s (and were refurbished in the 2000's) and feature a cab car at on end (pictured below). To this day they operate a large amount of the Transilien line J services out of Paris-Saint-Lazare. They are also used on line N with different locomotives, but this line isn't featured on this route. Alternatively, if DTG wants to focus on commuter traffic with this route, the BB 27300 and VB 2N coaches could be featured as standard instead of the Z 26500, if not they could be a very interesting and fun DLC option. More info on wikipedie (BB 27300). More info on wikipedia (VB 2N coaches)

    [​IMG]
    A VB 2N cab car.

    MI 09
    [​IMG]
    The MI 09 double deck EMU's operate most of the RER A services featured on this line. If the branch towards Cergy le Haut is included, it could be a fun DLC. The MI 09 has a very compact double deck layout, which is similar to it's succesful predecessors. It has a top speed of 120 km/h and consits of 5 cars, often with two units being coupled together to meet the high demand on the Parisian commuter networks. More info on wikipedia.

    BB 22200
    [​IMG]

    As the line features multiple freight yards and freight connections, it would be a shame to not use these for a freight loco add-on. The BB 22200 is part of the Nez cassés (broken noses) design family. The BB 22200 functions as an universal locomotive, in both short and long distance passenger traffic and freight traffic, under SNCF's FRET subsidiary. The locomotive has a top speed of 160 km/h (some even have been modified for 200 km/h), although it doesn't reach this speed in front of freight trains. This loco would add freight services starting in, among many other yards, the large freight yard in the National Forest of Saint-Germain, and could also operate services to and from the large car factories along the line. More info on wikipedia.

    BB 60000
    [​IMG]

    The BB 60000 is a heavy shunter/light locomotive operated by FRET. It has a max speed of 100 km/h. It is intended to (partially) replace older classes of diesel locomotives operated by FRET, and is capable of multiple unit operations. On this line it could do some shunting work at the large yard in the National Forest of Saint-Germain and the many industrial connections. It could also haul some freight from the Renault and Citroên car factories to larger freight yards along the main line. Optionally the BB 60000 could come in a pack with the BB 22200 in a 'heavy freight pack' like the one on Northern Trans Pennine. More info on wikipedia.


    Final Words

    I think this route could be a great post Rush Hour addition to the game. It features a busy suburban network with many interesting service patterns and offers some variety to the game using different safety systems and offering the great scenery along the Seine and into Paris. Please do let me know what branches and rolling stock you'd like to see and what you think about the route suggestion :).

    Pictures

    [​IMG]

    BB 27364 with VB2N stock at Saint-Lazare

    [​IMG]
    A MI 09 on the Nanterre viaduct

    [​IMG]
    The many lines coming into/out of Saint-Lazare

    [​IMG]
    Saint-Lazare, from rue de Rome

    [​IMG]
    A BB 27300 with VB 2N coaches at Bois-Colombes.

    [​IMG]
    A BB 27300 with VB 2N coaches at Ermont - Eaubonne.

    [​IMG]
    Z 50000 in the older Carmillon livery on Transilien Line L at Cergy-Saint-Christophe.

    [​IMG]
    Multiple different trains at Saint-Lazare.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
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  2. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent Idea since TSW 2 needs a French Commuter route like what Neighbouring Germany has in Train Sim World 2.
    Since I quoted your BB22200 locomotive it can provide LGV Mediterranean line freight services in the evening hours from 00:00-06:59 if fitted to use TVM430. Since these BB22200 act like German LZB freight locomotives on NBS lines that can support them if this route got chosen by DTG.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2021
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  3. Mevans193

    Mevans193 Well-Known Member

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    A great suggestion, this route sounds very diverse and is close to the length of what’s currently achievable. I hope to see some more French routes in the future, and Paris is such a busy city it’d be a shame not to have it featured in the game. Plus I’d really enjoy seeing some French freight trains in the game. The FRET livery is very nice looking.
     
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  4. terrya202

    terrya202 New Member

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    Amazing routes, yes that would be awesome. I would love to see more French routes like these. RER lines are beautiful I really hope it’ll see the light in TSW.
     
  5. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    The RER A section is too short so it’s better to have the L or J line and having driven the BB273000 which is powerful and has a lovely sound I’d love to drive it with the VB2N which is currently being replaced by the NAT. The Nez cassé are my favorite locomotives I’d love to see it too
     
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  6. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Nez Cassés locomotive in the United States it's known as Amtrak X996. My question is this is it possible for a BB22200 to run with VB2N double decker trains in German Language they're called a Doppelstockwagen in the forums the abbreviated as Dostos.
     
  7. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is in real life, though not on this route (line N).
     
  8. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    Yes it’s possible when equipped with push pull equipment, EAS etc for coaches but the only nez cassé actually coupled with VB2N are on the N and are the BB7600 ( transformed from BB7200 ) and are currently being withdrawn as being replaced by the Régio2N ( Z57000 ). Normally the full series will be phased out at the end of this year and for the BB27300 from PMP and PSL they’ll be deployed to the FRET activity. There’s also a BB22200 for the PAC transilien only used for emergency or other activities.
     
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  9. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    If the BB22200 does ever come, a run where it has to haul VB2N coaches as a replacement due to a broken down BB27300 could be a fun oppertunity!
     
  10. moczs_65

    moczs_65 Active Member

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    Z 26500 on TER Normandie services departs from Paris St. Lazare but where does they stop to ? Mantes-la-Jolie ?
     
  11. moczs_65

    moczs_65 Active Member

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    I think your line have too many branches and would be too long because DTG don't like to create BIG routes. It's always great though. It may be better to keep Paris - Mantes-la-Jolie ( via Poissy ). It would means also to get rid of the RER A and Transilien J Line sadly.
     
  12. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    DTG have said in the recent stream that it's unlikely they will be touching any route outside the established three areas (UK, germany and North America).
     
  13. moczs_65

    moczs_65 Active Member

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    Wait wut ?
     
  14. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    It's around 55 to 60 minutes in.
     
  15. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Mantes-la-jolie and possibily Vernon
     
  16. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I would feel like France might be a once in a while exception though, as with LGV all safety and signalling systems required are already in game and so are many usable French assets.

    Those on stream comments are a shame though. I've always been pushing for more variety, with mainly the Netherlands, but also Austria, Switzerland and France (and I've supported many scandinavian, Belgian and Italian suggestions aswell). I would feel quite dissapointed if this was all TSW will ever be. I find Germany and thr UK interesting, but not infinetely. For me it's a real big dissapointment to hear the fact that we will never see something new, like Dutch routes, ever, unless a 3rd party that makes them joins, but the chances of that seem just as unlikely as DTG hasn't been too welcoming to those who tried.
     
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  17. ded mozaj

    ded mozaj New Member

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    Yes, I agree, it would be a great route!
    I especially liked the line Paris-Saint-Lazare - Mantes-la-Joly!
    It would be "cool" to see him in TSW2 !!!
    1. But you must understand that, although DTG already has a database that was made when creating the Marseille-Avignon route, then to create this route, (to make it great), you will need to create hundreds of original 3D objects (buildings, structures, small infrastructure)!
    2. Now let's talk about rolling stock! When creating this route, you need to create an original rolling stock, an Electric Train, or an electric locomotive + ..., and at least a few original freight cars!
    Otherwise, the beautiful route will initially be empty! And the purchasing power will not be high!
    3. And although the route is not very long, only 60 + - km, the building density is very high!
    And if you listened to the words of the developers on a recent stream, then it takes 6-9 months to develop one route!
    4. And if you take into account that the DTG team, although it attracts independent developers to create routes and rolling stock, then they all specialize in their own way!
    Rivetas in Britain are mainly ...
    Skyhook - to the USA ...
    TSG is just getting started ...
    so, you know ...
    5. That is, to take France seriously, you need one more team! Either as part of DTG, or not dependent ... like Riveta and others ...
    Moreover, a team of moddelling specialists who know French Railways well!
    Only such a team can take on this business!
     
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  18. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    I agree and the next step is combining KVB VACMA with PZB LZB on cross border lines like Metz-Forbach-Saarbrucken & TS 22 possibly TSW 2 in the future the Strasbourg-Kehl-Karlshule Mannheim-Frankfurt Am Main Railway line
     

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