Route Peak Forest Railway: Ambergate – Chinley & Buxton Feedback Thread

"Hill Start" should not have been set up with Training Scenario limitations. Specifically save disabled, as you have to grind up one and a half miles doing 10 MPH if lucky, then drop down into Chapel en la Frith. It's probably knocking on for half an hour to complete.

And for the love of god, please cease switching back on the coloured stop markers on the track with every Training mission.

 

A while back having the 4F on short trains was mentioned, I offer my photo of 44080 at Rowsley on the Target 57 pickup goods on 7 April 1964, only a few weeks before Rowsley sidings closed in fact
DaveW

 

That 4Flooks as though it has had a hard life!

 

Well, they didn't call them "Maids of all work" for nothing.

 

It was probably 40 years old and by that time engines were rarely cleaned, especially freight engines, often a component failure would lead to withdrawal as they were running the steam fleet down.

The one in Peak Forest is too clean, it would be nice to have had a weathered variant too.

 

Another little point was mentioned up thread about steam locos not having speedos, I used to know a retired Newton Heath (Manchester) driver, and they had a fitted freight turn from Ancoats over the Peak. He once got pulled up to see the foreman for speeding as a signalman reckoned he was much too early at one of the timing points. He argued that one, his Black 5 didn't have a speedometer, and two, the railway hadn't provided him with a watch - he got away with it! He also commented on the beauty of the line, and that compared to Manchester 'the air was like wine'
Incidentally, even in their last week of operation Rowsley sidings handled 10,000 wagons, it was a 24/7 operation, so it would be nice to see them filled up a bit, can the TSW3 wizards do low-poly wagons?

 

Special thanks to the scenario compilers for “All Mixed Up”. Not completed it yet, just about to shunt Miller’s Dale, but this is great fun. We need more like this. Would have been even more challenging with the 4F.

 

Agreed, it was one of my favourites.

 

Yes, must agree it was a brilliant scenario, dare I say the best I've played.

 

Part of the appeal is that you can trundle along and take in the scenery. Although all the wagons so far are fitted, I've decided as this is a local freight to regard it as Class K and run at 25 MPH maximum.

 

Yes it does really show the scenery off. When I did it I tried to maintain about 25 mph though by the end I started creeping to and above 30 more often!

 

I think I went for around 35-45 as I thought as they were able to run at a faster speed? Is Class K limited to 25mph then? As I always went off how many of the wagons were fitted/unfitted?

Definitely is nicer to take the scenery in running at proper speed though! Thats why I love the coal trains with wholey unfitted stock!

 

IIRC, from a driver that I knew, if the speed limit sign shows two different speeds, with the higher speed on top, the higher speed is for MU's and the lower for loco hauled services. I think it had something to do with weight distribution...
Notwithstanding the above, you should not exceed the limit of the lowest vehicle in the train formation.

 

That is only really relevant to modern situations. Maximum speed of British steam hauled freight depended on several factors, mainly the number (if any) fitted wagons in the consist.

 

I really think freight train speeds should be specified on the HUD or somewhere, well the speed of the particular one you are driving. Also I am not sure the AI always sticks to realistic speeds. This is especially important when you are driving freight from an area or period of which you have little knowledge.

 

what might be useful is for there to be a list of the stock that you are hauling at the start of a journey or scenario that shows their maximum speed. This may come in handy should there be journeys where items are dropped off or picked up along the way.

 

I loaded up a couple of the old SIAM games but although they listed the A to K classification no mention was made of maximum speeds. However, all the reference I can find states that wholly unfitted trains, including so called Class F “Express” were limited to 25 MPH.

With regard to All Mixed Up, almost got caught out at Chinley. If you don’t push back far enough in the siding on the first move you can get and can carry out the next instruction to return to the Through Line but the ground signal doesn’t clear. So when you get back on the Through Line for the next move, the signal doesn’t clear and contacting the signaller generates an Off Path message. Luckily I was able to restore the saved game on arrival at Chinley, pushed the train back so I just nudged the buffers, the disc cleared and everything else sequenced correctly. IMHO this is something that needs to be looked at for this type of scenario, it would be ruination if you didn’t have a save to revert to or, with only one save available, had saved after doing the first move. Either the instruction needs to clearly state you need to get behind the signal or the game needs to be clever enough to figure you are still where you need to be with the consist as it should be, reset the signalling and allow you to continue.

 

Its very interesting how so many thing dictate the speed limits from weight, class etc. Found this on one of the sites I've been trawling through recently. Quite an interesting read overall although not sure how completely accurate it is: http://igg.org.uk/rail/7-fops/fo-intro.htm

"Trains with a mixture of fitted and unfitted wagons travelled at speeds of up to a maximum of 45 mph, depending on the ratio of fitted to unfitted wagons. Rolling stock considered suitable for high speed running was usually marked in some way, from about 1938 the marking XP was adopted by all companies and this marking remained in use under British Railways.

The express goods speed of 45 mph (72 kph) was really the upper safe limit for the traditional ten foot wheelbase four wheeled stock even when fitted with vacuum brakes and oil ale boxes. At higher speeds the stock proved unstable and tended to derail itself. Under British Railways a blanket 40 mph (64 kph) speed restriction was applied to all the older pattern four wheeled vehicles in the early 1960's even when fitted with vacuum brakes."

 

Interesting that we have to learn completely different speed rules for Liverpool-Crewe (1956) and Peak Forest (1963)

 

Fortunately I still have my spotting notebooks, and I recorded that I left Sheffield at 8.50 and arrived at Rowsley station at 10.10 having cycled. 44080 was the first train I saw that day.
Also fortunately the late Glynn Waite in his book 'Rowsley: A Rural Railway Centre' included an Appendix showing the loadings of down trains from Rowsley on Wednesday 18 March 1964. He records that with a booked time of leaving Rowsley Sidings at 10.20 it was a Class 9 Rowsley to Hassop, with the same 4F 44080, actual load three wagons, 1 for Hassop, 2 for Bakewell.
24 Freight trains left Rowsley Sidings in the down direction that day with six passing on the mainline in that direction.
The various books by Glynn, also by running foreman Keith Miles are a mine of information on the railway scene at Rowsley.

 

Finished All Mixed Up, then. 23k AP and 2h 21m to complete.
Phew.

 

Some photos I took at Rowsley in 2016 and 2017. It's glory days long behind it.

 

Don’t mean to derail this thread, but I’ve got another question regarding prototypical practices. Could somebody shed some light on the headcodes for me (no pun intended)?

In this picture from 1959, an 8F arrives at Peak Forest with loaded ICI-hoppers. Now, according to the post-‘62 headcodes (thanks, MRFS), this 8F shows a class 5 headcode when, as I understand it, it should show a class 4 headcode, because all of the hoppers are fitted. Were the headcodes different pre-‘62? I’ve been trying to find an answer but it all seems rather confusing to me. Perhaps the knowledgable people on here can help me?

Source

 

Very interesting spot! I've been wondering about the realistic speeds for the ICI wagons because as you say they are fitted. Perhaps they were put as a class 5 with a slowers speed limit due to the weight of the train? But despite this I can't imagine a big heavy limestone train doing 45-50mph in the steam era even with fitted brakes and two sets of bogies?

 

You may well think that, but I couldn't possibly comment!.
Seriously though you are correct in that assumption. If we had the railways would have ground to a halt Just look at the mayhem when ever the unions called a work to rule instead of a full blown strike back in the day.

 

Yes in fact they didnt.


In this particular case of the bls cargo vectron, the safety system zub caused trouble on the locomotive (emergency brakes repeatedly) and the driver has isolated the system.

This for its own isnt against the rule, but he didnt call a second staff inside the cab for the following period of procedures and past a signal at danger with safety systems isolated.

 

Was thinking of picking this up. Has this received any timetable updates yet? Is it possible to use the 4F for anything other than Shunting and Banking?

 

No updates, even the gaps in the hillside south west of Matlock and the distant scenery beyond Gowhole are still evident.

 

Have they said anything about an update? Or is it basically just abandoned?
Do you think it's a worthwhile pickup in the current sale?

 

Just because they haven't said anything doesn't mean nothing is happening. It is still a lovely route and there are some interesting services and scenarios but it just doesn't feel complete yet.

I imagine at some point, maybe after whatever is happening over the next couple of months is out of the way, there might be some sign of developement. They have talked about possibilities but with the usual caveat of nothing is happening at the moment.

 

I would say it’s worth full price so if it’s in the current sale go for it.

 

Didn't Matt say that a 3rd party was working on something for Peak Forest?

 

I recall that as well. I was hoping for an announcement in the roadmap, but no luck.

 

I think they were talking to 3rd parties about a green diesel pack but I guess these things can take months to develop into something.

 

That Royal Train scenario is enjoyable and frustrating in equal measure.

As previously noted unless something exceptional happened it would never be following another movement on block.

First SPAD trap on departing Ambergate, you are in the station limits so to speak and don't know what the distant was showing. So you get two (I think) proceed semaphores then a third which is at danger. Tea and biscuits No.1.

Matlock, get a double yellow colour light (take it easy), followed by a green colour light (we're off) and semaphore off at the end of the Down Platform (pour on the beans), to plough through the next semaphore at danger. Tea and biscuits No.2.

Reload and now ambling along at around 30 MPH to try and avoid any further mishaps.

 

I think in reality the signallers may very well have been invited to head office for a chat with the manager if they delayed the Royal Train or stuck it behind another service.

Even now it takes priority over everything.

 

Correct. I figured afterwards the green colour light replaces a home semaphore and I should have continued at slow speed until past the section signal. User error really, but of course as we've been discussing elsewhere... Rule 39a.

 

Of course the Royal Train run is exceptional in that you are running non stop, following the route proving loco on block which as discussed would not happen IRL as Royals were (are) normally double blocked. Just about everything else as you say calls at Matlock apart from the freight but you are rarely if ever following close behind another service in either instance so this may be the only situation in which this signalling sequence occurs.

 

Water hoses at Chinley attach to nearby fences. Sometimes to right side ones and other times to left side ones. Bug is always reproduced at this station.





Cheers

 

Fully agreed!

 

Something similar appears on the Tees Valley Line in the large yard but I don't think there are any water towers there.

 

Does anyone have any sort of guide for how those big semaphore trees work? I found plenty of guides and videos explaining how individual semaphores work, and about distant and home signals, but couldn't find anything that explained how to read one of those big trees with like 6-8 semaphores on them, all for just two lines. Which semaphore means what? Are diverging routes announced through semaphores?

 

Yes. See this railsigns.uk page for more information.