Upcoming Release Peak Forest Railway - Coming Soon

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Benjamin, Apr 25, 2023.

  1. DTG Benjamin

    DTG Benjamin Staff Member

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  2. Shackamaxon

    Shackamaxon Well-Known Member

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    Where are we regarding -
    1. 'Rapid loss of boiler pressure' issue
    2. Safety valves that constantly go off & drive us crazy
    3. Manual Firing
    4. Layering the 4F on SoS
     
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  3. LIRRGuy

    LIRRGuy Well-Known Member

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    Ehhhhhh I'll pass on this one, Another mixed bag
     
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  4. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    Easy pass. Not interested.
     
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  5. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Will this dlc be another buggy mess. Even though I'm not interested in it, It wouldn't surprise me if this dlc had problems like NY-Trenton or MML
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2023
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  6. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    The Jubilee on stopping passengers? Does anyone have any evidence that a single Jubilee worked stopping services over the Peak Forest?
     
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  7. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    Certainly interesting. I wonder if it’ll come with the fixes and updates that should’ve come with SoS…
     
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  8. tft#6439

    tft#6439 Well-Known Member

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    Yes yes and Yes.
     
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  9. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    On what system does this happen?I never experienced these problems.
     
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  10. tft#6439

    tft#6439 Well-Known Member

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    The safety valves are on top of the loco. It's ok if you're travelling at high speeds it'll be ok however if you keep stopping at stations you'll get the safety valves constantly.
     
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  11. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    The problem is there is no way to control the fire and the water so you cannot stop the pressure rising when stationary or going downhill.
    Therefore if you aren’t actively using a lot of steam then the pressure is at max all of the time and the safety valves are blowing off.

    Not only is this incredibly annoying, it is also incredibly frowned upon in real life as it wastes steam and creates a lot of noise pollution. You’d only expect an engine to be blowing off just before starting or approaching an uphill gradient.

    To be fair on them they did fix the problem with the pressure falling too quickly, but until we actually have control over the fire and water I will not be buying any steam products.
     
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  12. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    Must be annoying for passenger train operations.
     
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  13. marcsharp2

    marcsharp2 Well-Known Member

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    It's a UK DLC so I'll buy it, but I'll probably be spending more time creating scenarios for it or playing on scenarios created by other players than the timetable mode that comes with it
     
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  14. Cael

    Cael Well-Known Member

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    The route and services look interesting from the article. Are the steam problems from SoS/TSW3 fixed on release or expected at a later date?
     
  15. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    The mentioned a 20 ton brake van is new or just the same one from SOS?
     
  16. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Well, this preview stream better be interesting then, and not having fancy gimmicks to go with it. This route feels like it's indeed gonna be forgotten like SoS all over again, a shame for sure.
     
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  17. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    It probably didn’t but as it is the only passenger steam loco we have then it will have to do until they build more.

    It will be difficult to risk buying this knowing that DTG haven’t yet shown that they can do a steam loco with good enough steam generation and behaviour in TSW3. I’d want to see a real steam driver say that the characteristics are correct, like one did for the Jubilee in TSW2 (before it was later broken in TSW3 and as yet has not been fixed).
     
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  18. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    As I said in the other thread it is such a shame because this is an area of the country I love and visit every year (often walking on the old track bed) but the diesels were too commonly seen in '63 not to be include as part of the dlc, especially when you consider that the peak is already in game and would only need a few tweaks and modifications along with a livery change to make it fit in. Even a 101 on the millers dale runs would be better than nothing, or a steam loco (especially a Jubilee).

    Anyway best of luck to DTG, but JT's route is looking more interesting and I can't wait to find out more about that one.
     
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  19. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

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    Any chance for simulated steam chest? Kinda takes away the realism.
     
  20. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    It's the same. Mentioned in the article
     
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  21. max#2873

    max#2873 Well-Known Member

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    I have to admit, they have nerve, releasing this before fixing sos... :/
     
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  22. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    This one is a very sad pass for me. Even notwithstanding the vast number of issues that look to be carried over from Spirit of Steam, it's clear to me that despite my initial optimism that the early preview would allow the community to feedback and affect the development, we've been essentially ignored and we're on track to get a highly unrealistic and unsatisfying representation of the Peak Forest route.

    - No diesels, despite them being at least as prevalent as steam on this route during the time period and them already existing in-game, requiring some minor modification

    - How will the expresses operate given that none of them stopped at Ambergate in reality? Absolutely bonkers not to extend to Derby. It's really clear that the initial research legwork simply wasn't done when this route came up for review, and then nobody was interested in reconsidering the scope once the community had fed back.

    - HUGE red flag is that the timetable is clearly still under development at this late stage (again like Trenton) hence service numbers being unable to be provided in the usual manner

    - Is the Buxton - Miller's Dale shuttle really going to be represented by a 4F? This is total nonsense and at this point had been operated by a DMU for several years

    - Is the timetable included the 1963 working timetable? I made multiple offers to provide copies of the working timetable for this period (in an effort to be helpful) but apparently DTG didn't need them?

    The route itself looks pretty enough but the value should be in the gameplay. Don't tell me that I should play the route before judging it - it's more than possible to judge the gameplay by what has already been made public and what will be missing.

    I can't tell you how excited I was when this route was first announced (I even went on a special day out to Peak Rail to check it out in real life), but I think this will be the first UK route that I won't be buying. The scope of the route is fundamentally crippled and although I really have tried to maintain a level of goodwill, it feels like a slap in the face that there hasn't even been any feedback other than 'we can't do that' when the community pointed out the clear issues.

    Why is it ok for steam routes to be incredibly unrealistic compared to modern routes? Are there no steam-era enthusiasts left willing to champion such a route at DTG? Why the reticence to include diesel traction? Why wasn't the dire state of Spirit of Steam addressed before cranking out another route, carrying over the same issues? Is it simply that nobody cares or is it the same story of product being cranked out the door for sales before it's ready or before the team can complete the job properly?

    I would have paid £50 for a proper representation of the route with the appropriate stations and stock but as it stands my wallet is remaining firmly closed. What a disappointment.
     
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  23. Thelonius16

    Thelonius16 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t quite understand the videotape-style filters for a 1960s route. That’s about 15 years early.

    Maybe 8mm film would be more appropriate.
     
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  24. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Probably similar to how the acela was on new york to trenton where dtg made all the acela services stop at trenton even though in reality, very few actually stop there for more replayability. So the express services with the jubilee might just stop at the end stations before the ai takes over.
     
  25. Suryaaji#2369

    Suryaaji#2369 Well-Known Member

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    Tbh a bit weird to choose this era & this region. If only they make ECML in the LNER era (not todays LNER) with new engines.
     
  26. Bravo2six

    Bravo2six Well-Known Member

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    I'll pass on this one, at least until I hear more about the 4F going into SoS or any other steam/ diesel packs coming to this route.
     
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  27. davod2021

    davod2021 Active Member

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    definitely need to fix safety systems its so unrealistic it going off at stations or in idle ok boiler pressure does go up but we cant control the water valve
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2023
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  28. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much echoes how I feel. Was so hyped for this, now really struggling to justify a pre order or Day One purchase. DTG cannot be oblivious to the feedback and concerns that have been raised, but sadly arrogance prevails.

    The issue with the safety valves is not so much that they blow off more than they should but that the sound mix then makes this dominate everything else. Not helped that above about 35 MPH what should be a rapid but still distinct rhythmic chuff of the exhaust descends into muffled white noise, on the Jubilee and 8F in SoS.

    And in addition to the above I want to see hard evidence the steam physics etc. have been addressed.

    But no doubt the stream will be another stage managed presentation with high fives and silly headphones, aimed at getting the less discerning customers to willingly part with their money.
     
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  29. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    No, as has been stated and DTG must be aware if they did their research - by this time the Millers Dale shuttle was worked by DMU, usually a Class 104. In fact, since 1957… Only the through trains to London were loco hauled.

    Prior to 1957 from what I can see the shuttles were worked by a two or three coach push pull set, with a tank engine so using a Jubilee or 4F on Mark Ones is still an inaccurate representation of the true prototype.
     
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  30. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    What they need is more locomotive dlc. We rarely get any for the UK anymore.
    I’m not counting the ROG 37 and RHTT as although they are nice, they are just reused rolling stock and the RHTT essentially a wagon and scenario pack.

    What they need is a steam and/or diesel pack with a selection of widely seen locomotives which can be used on most routes.

    There’s no point going for something specific like an A4 or Coronation class as these are not flexible and can only be used on a small number of potential trains and routes.

    I’m thinking more of a Black 5 and a standard 4 tank pack. These two locomotives can cover stopping services, local goods, station pilot, express passenger and freight duties almost anywhere in the country. They also have the advantage of being some of the last steam engines running so they will be able to handle routes set late into the 1960’s too.

    Then for diesels, we already have a really nice selection of diesels but a BR green livery pack for the 101, 20, 31, 40 and 45 would be able to nicely slot into a route almost anywhere in the country and cover all types of operations.

    Perhaps these locomotive packs do not sell well but I think they are necessary as we move into more steam routes as a base to provide decent layers and Ai on all new routes. Then, if we continue with the one new engine per route DLC theme, at least we will have a decent timetable with plenty of variety. If these packs added good quality layers to all future 1950-60 routes then I have no doubt they will do well.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2023
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  31. marcsharp2

    marcsharp2 Well-Known Member

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    I get paid on the 5th May, last night I said I was saying I'll get this when I get paid, but I also wanna purchase Tramsim deluxe edition so it's one or the the other...and honestly I'm more excited for Tramsim so I'm gonna be buying that instead, My wife's birthday is in June so the earliest I'll be buying this route is July and even then that'll be down to other stuff not being available, because this route is half hearted even by DTG standards I just can't get excited about it. Shame really.
     
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  32. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    On the topic of essential diesel traction not being included: I generally think scenario/livery packs are not a bad idea at all, but they’re now clearly starting to be used to justify releasing a route with an unacceptable rolling stock selection. I can guarantee you they would have included a slightly modified diesel here in the TSW2 days (like the repainted German DB blue shunter on Dresden-Riesa and Tharandter Rampe, for example). Now, we will have to pay extra to get stuff that would’ve once been included with the (already expensive) DLC. I don’t like this trend…

    Don’t get me wrong… it’s amazing if these loco/livery packs are used to bring niche operations to a route (like the RHTT and ROG for SEHS). But locking essential rolling stock that should have been included from the beginning behind them is not good.
     
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  33. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    I think I'll wait until the preview stream before making a decision on this one. As it stands there are three routes I'm interested in buying currently: this, Niddertalbahn, and New York Trenton. It'll have to be a damn good route for me to choose this though, with all the issue steam currently has (mainly the safety valves and boiler pressure problems).

    Also I know it's only been two routes, but I'm already tired of the LMS routes and locos. It doesn't help they went with a Jubilee over a more iconic loco such as a Royal Scot or Pacific (not that either would be appropriate for this particular route). I hope the next steam route is something more adventurous, ideally pre war and in another region.
     
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  34. andrewandjane66

    andrewandjane66 Well-Known Member

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    Would probably buy on day one, but I'm still trying to work my way through all the other dlc I've bought recently...
     
  35. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    I will not buy it now. I love steam, but it should have ben a tank engine and I think in this period of time it would be awesome to have a mix of diesel and steam somehow.Finally, I still have a lot to play from what I bought before.
     
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  36. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Being realistic, I know at this stage we're not going to get a green Class 45, a Class 104 or Derby. But if someone from DTG can come on here and honourably state steam physics and sound have been addressed (and also retro applied to SoS) that might sway me to give it a try.

    But the silence on this issue is frankly troubling.
     
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  37. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    all DLC BUY
     
  38. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for such an in depth, analytical and erudite post.
     
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  39. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    I do love Fanta’s updates, they’re short & to the point.

    Interesting take on their purchasing strategy though, last week the fortune cookie was telling us they wanted Matt fired.
     
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  40. Woroszyl The NS 2000

    Woroszyl The NS 2000 Well-Known Member

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    Let's hope we don't get altered rolling stock and services on Gen 8 like we did with SoS!
     
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  41. Sparmi

    Sparmi Well-Known Member

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    I have a question: I checked the route on Google Maps and found that there is no longer a direct rail connection from Buxton to Ambergate. Were the tracks dismantled because they were no longer needed? Additional question are there also a few castles or sights on the route. Unfortunately, the power plant in MML does not have the same fascination as a medieval castle. ;)
     
  42. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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  43. Cael

    Cael Well-Known Member

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  44. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    I don't have a time/date for you yet - it'll likely be next week though, because of the BH Monday in the UK on the 8th.

    Will aim to be more descriptive in the notes.
     
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  45. Cael

    Cael Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the quick reply, I'll look forward to it. Hope we'll be able to see it in action on the preview stream since this looks to be a hilly route.
     
  46. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    A casualty of the Beeching cuts in the 1960's. Part of the line has been preserved, part is freight only and the rest a walking trail.
     
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  47. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Although I'm not by any means confident of my ability to operate a steam engine, the presence of some shunting activities on this route have led me to take advantage of the pre-purchase discount. I'm hoping for a thorough package of tutorials and relying on my usually high level of patience.
     
  48. germano.ciavone

    germano.ciavone New Member

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    Dear DTG team..
    Seems like there's no feedback from you about the manual firing or AI firing issue (as boiler behavior in general).
    Being a costumer I think it would be fair to know what to expect.. SoS was fine, but very disappointing for someone who want a simulator rather than a boring arcade platform.

    Can someone of you give to us a durn answer about this?
    Thank you very much.
     
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  49. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    "Reduction in volume of safety valves"

    So, not fixed.
     
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  50. coursetim

    coursetim Well-Known Member

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    love steam so much, I want dtg to succeed so badly with it! I bought SOS despite the problems.

    Peak forest seems like a beautiful picturesque route. There's room for the 8f and the Jubilee fantastic. But I can't figure out why specifically the 4F? I love the 4F but it seems to have almost a dlc presence rather than heres a main loco for a route thats integral. From what I understand it didn't shunt much and it ran light freight works much more often than passenger services? The time period its set in they were also getting rarer and the standard classes were taking a lot of the steam work from what I've read?

    Surely some form of standard class would've made more sense for the route running the smaller trains and shunting? If they wanted a wide berth from diesel (fair enough but it would've been realistic to include them and would showcase the end of steam really nicely).

    The community has been crying out for it for SOS which is still a blank canvas so I hope theres more room for dlc. Will still be keeping a close eye on the route and watching the streams and feedback, but its not a must buy for me right now which is a real shame. Hopefully the patch at least fixes some of the big bugs with steam :)

    Edit - If anyone more knowledgeable than me wants to correct me feel free. This is just the hint I've been getting reading other posts :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2023
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