Upcoming Release Peak Forest Railway - Coming Soon

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Benjamin, Apr 25, 2023.

  1. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    In the update thread created by JD, manual firing is still being scoped out as it's a huge project so it is not coming any time soon.
     
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  2. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    A tank engine, possibly a 2-6-2T or 2-6-4T (though I would love a Jinty) might have made more sense. Even a Black or Standard Five or Standard 4 (75xxx) would have been preferable, with more scope for layering on future steam DLC. Strange choices and decisions all round with this route.
     
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  3. khalidaliishmail

    khalidaliishmail Active Member

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    Will definitely be getting this, especially in light of the upcoming patch. So far Spirit of Steam is the only route I play 99% of the time in spite of its flaws, so it will be nice to have another steam era route to choose from.

    Also, really looking forward to manual firing, so that the associated functionally and currently missing simulation features are added such as the water level (which is currently static), working steam injectors etc.
     
  4. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I'll probably get this- my steam knowledge is very limited, so the innacuracies don't bother me so much. I enjoy SOS from time to time and now that it's getting some bug fixes, it should be improved.

    I do hope a diesel pack for it comes out at some point.
     
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  5. coursetim

    coursetim Well-Known Member

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    I've been looking at some of the shed allocations for Rowsley in particular and there are Jintys and North London tanks (Suprisingly the Bluebells goods divison repainted the one on the bluebell which was on the allocation (and they did a cracking job so thought I'd upload it)). Although I think the North London tanks were going/gone by the time of the route setting? 58850 was apparently withdrawn in the 60s from Rowsley and sold to the Bluebell in working condition. Not sure about the Jintys though. There were also a fair few 4Fs. There were 2 J94s until 1962 apparently too. Mentioned some 47s as well.
    Screenshot_20230426_213254.jpg
    FB_IMG_1682540961554.jpg
     
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  6. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    The J94's were used on the Cromford and High Peak freight line if I recall. In 1963 there were certainly still some ex MR designs around. I think 4F's would have still been quite common in 1963 so it isn't an odd choice really although they did work passenger trains it was mainly on routes like the Highbridge branch on the S&D or parts of the M&SWJR, on lighter branch line trains. They certainly wouldn't have been working the Millers Dale shuttle with a couple of mark 1's
     
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  7. trainboy0223#2804

    trainboy0223#2804 New Member

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  8. darkwarrior#2896

    darkwarrior#2896 Well-Known Member

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    I would like to say thanks to JD-DTG and dovetail team for they're hard to work into Train Sim World.
     
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  9. darkwarrior#2896

    darkwarrior#2896 Well-Known Member

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    Don't be negative just yet. Give this route a chance. DTG are doing the best they can
     
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  10. coursetim

    coursetim Well-Known Member

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    Its not that people are being harsh for the sake of being harsh. Myself and a lot of the others were really excited by the route and steam in general and we really want it to be good and authentic. But with some of things on offer and long standing steam issues its difficult to be optimistic.

    I hope PF is better though and gives a bit more of a foundation for new dlc so they can flesh this route a bit more. But I'm a little on the fence, willing to be proved wrong though :)
     
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  11. sojaan00

    sojaan00 Member

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    DTG have had enough chances already.

    I've only bought Niddelbahn DLC which is good. For rest of them all are rushed out to meet this imaginery deadline that they created them selves. For steam routes, I love to drive steam locos. But what is the point to drive them if simulation is half baked? Give me proper manual firing, fix steam generation and I just might buy this route. But I'm not holding my breath. Just too many disappointments from DTG.
     
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  12. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    Only in scenario planner. :(
     
  13. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    For DTG this route should have been a combined Steam and Diesel route eventually leading up to a German route with combined Steam Diesel and Electric locomotives set in the same 1960s like Hauptstrecke Rhein Ruhr extended Dortmund Hbf Düsseldorf Hauptbahnhof via Bochum & Essen Hbf. Since it was electrified in 1964.
     
  14. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    The specification has already done that.
    No Derby (or Manchester).
    No diesels despite the increasing prevalence on the route at this time.
    No DMU on Buxton shuttles (worked by a Class 104 since 1957).
    No catering cars on the express consists.
    Stonewalling or ignoring community concerns about all of the above.

    In addition, the preview footage has shown what appears to be a somewhat artificial looking environment, over bright, cartoon like colours and squeaky clean everywhere.

    Now all things being equal and if the promised steam physics and sound improvements materialise, I may give it the benefit of the doubt. But in truth what DTG have created is more like a heritage railway (minus the 25 MPH speed limit) than a true reincarnation of 1960’s Derbyshire.
     
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  15. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Via Scenario Planner, yes. There's an aspiration to directly layer it onto the route, but certainly nothing we can promise at this stage.
     
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  16. yliu312

    yliu312 Member

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    I'd like ask what time does this route tobe set? amd also what is a tank engine?
     
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  17. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well I know enough about it to know that for me it will not be a realistic enough representation of the route as it was in the 1960's. I suspect it will look very nice and the modelleing of the locos and stock will be very nice.

    But it lacks many of the correct trains, all services will be formed of mark 1's which is not realistic, without buffet cars too. It also starts and stops at two minor locations, I can just about accept Chinley but Ambergate I can't, half the services didn't even stop there.

    I don't think they are doing as much as they can, I think they are doing as much as their budget has allowed. I think they could do a lot more and have the ability to make a very immersive and exciting as well as beautiful route.

    It would be good to see some of the TSC steam period DLC providers collaborate as a third party and take their time to make a steam period route.
     
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  18. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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  19. tft#6439

    tft#6439 Well-Known Member

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    If not you can in scenario planner.
     
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  20. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    It's definitely a route in need of some layer love, to flesh it out
     
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  21. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well call me an idiot but I've gone ahead and pre-ordered it while the discount is available. Better to take an actual critical look at what's on offer than snipe from the sidelines.

    There's always my infamous refund, ha ha.

    Besides which, and DTG know it, if routes like this get lacklustre sales they will simply pull the plug on period content and we will be back to push to start/stop Electrostars or similar.

    However I do hope behind the scenes there are active plans to offer a compatible diesel pack - a remodelled and reskinned Class 45, a Class 104 DMU (massive scope to use on future BR era routes) and maybe a Class 25 (also huge future potential).
     
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  22. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

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    I think ill preorder it after the preview Stream, when they show the timetable and new physics and sounds regarding the safetys. Hopefully the timetable will be good, if they are just putting steam engines on the route in the transition era, they can make the next step to fictionalize the timetable as well to make it busy with the stock included, especially for freight.
    But i like the look of this route more than SOS, where half the route was the straight WCML and the rest mostly empty yards with no remarkable scenery.
     
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  23. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I did consider it but I can already see what is missing to make me want to hold off. If I sense they are leaving gaps for future DLC, particularly a DMU then I might take the plunge. If they have made a convoulted Millers Dale shuttle with a 4F and two mark 1's then you won't be able to layer in anything over it anyway so I see no prospect of a suitable DLC, unless they make a new timetable.

    I will see what is in the preview stream first but my wallett is staying firmly shut for now.
     
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  24. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well I did think long and hard but as there's still (or was, now) a bit of credit in my Steam Wallet thought I'd fold and give it a shot.

    But I do agree, this is an area where DTG totally lack direction. SoS should have been the launch pad for a comprehensive build up of supplementary DLC but - forthcoming fixes notwithstanding - seems to be yet another one trick pony. It's like building a model railway with huge stations and complex track, but only having one train to run around it before scrapping and building something else.
     
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  25. theBrummieTSWDriver

    theBrummieTSWDriver Active Member

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    I'm not sure if I will be buying this new steam route.
    I'm put off paying £30 for a route that has this strange start and finish, and yet another recycled Jubilee.
    They could have easily added a diesel in the pack instead of the Jubilee to run alongside the 4F, and imported in the Jubilee from SoS?
     
  26. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I think the Jubilee and 8F are imported as is the Mark One stock. Only the 4F is actually new. However you do get the Jub and 8F if you don't own SoS, rather than having to have bought the previous product.
     
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  27. theBrummieTSWDriver

    theBrummieTSWDriver Active Member

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    That makes it sound even worse! LoL!
    For those that own SoS will be paying £30 for yet another One loco route?
     
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  28. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well it isn't a one loco routes in as far as the services will be using three loco's. I don't think a route and one new loco is a bad price for £30 personally.
     
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  29. coursetim

    coursetim Well-Known Member

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    Its one new loco but I believe you'd get the Jubilee and 8F with the route if you don't have SOS anyway. Or thats what the article implies.

    Probably better value for money if you didn't get SOS maybe? Seems a bit off as you say!
     
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  30. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Exactly what I said above! Maybe owners of SoS already should have got another £5 off…

    Anyhow I suppose the spin on this is at the moment we’re not paying £30 but £27 with the pre order discount which makes it slightly less of a raw deal.
     
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  31. coursetim

    coursetim Well-Known Member

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    Being on Xbox I have a gift card saved over so it wouldn't be too bad. Will have to wait and see the stream because I do want to like it

    Between this and seeing how MML fairs post patch personally!
     
  32. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    Me too, I have a gift card to use, but a pre-order discount would be lovely for xbox users. I will use my GC for xbox and wait for a decent sale price for the Steam version
     
  33. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    It's weird you know and maybe there's some sort of DTG subliminal forum eye flash messaging going on, but having placed the pre order and despite my posturing, part of me is actually looking forward to this now and wishing 9th May would hurry up. Probably the scenery is the main thing plus the chance to drive a section of route no longer there IRL.
     
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  34. lancpudn

    lancpudn Active Member

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    That artificial looking environment & the bright lighting is putting me off from buying it if it's going to look like that in game play.
     
  35. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    Don’t worry, it will get worse and budgets will be squeezed even more now a bigger company have taken over DTG.

    As for the route, I’m not a fan of steam in the game (unlike in real life) but am extremely keen on the route itself. The line between Ambergate and Matlock is one of the best in the country in my opinion and I’ve also been on Peak Rail (Matlock to Rowsley) a few times so am keen to see how this compares. I also believe the Monsal Trail is spectacular in real life, though I haven’t walked it myself, despite having previously lived in Chesterfield for 25 years. I’m keen to see the preview stream and if it looks up to scratch, I’ll be having fun with the scenario planner.
     
  36. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Yes I can see me getting my Class 45 fix (albeit blue with Mark 2's) that way until DTG pull their thumbs out and give us a green one.
     
  37. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    It will be a stunning route no doubt. However I am just as interested in replicating as close as possible the line as it was actually operated with realistically formed trains of the period and it falls very short on that from what I can see so far.
     
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  38. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    ALL routes now are one loco. Haven't seen one with two new locos since.... when? NTP, if one figures MSB's two TRAXXes are variations of the same design.
     
  39. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    It may be the norm these days, but one new loco per route is still not acceptable.

    Take PF, for instance. All DTG had to do was stick a 1st gen dmu in there and they could have had my money. How difficult would a 104 be? Looks a lot like the 101, with the same mechanical gearbox and similar chassis.

    I don't fuss with Scenario Planner, so it's a pass for me even though I'm a fan of steam and lost railways.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2023
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  40. stimp#5938

    stimp#5938 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe fix this 20 month problem first!!! Dresden Commuter achievement is now broken since release.
    upload_2023-4-28_18-36-32.png
     
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  41. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    SOS
     
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  42. theBrummieTSWDriver

    theBrummieTSWDriver Active Member

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    Also Niddertalbahn has two
     
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  43. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Two new locos. NTB has one new and two reskins (admittedly , the 365 is slightly altered from the 363).
     
  44. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    More or less. The two Staniers are very similar, to the point they share the same cab. Rather like MSB, they aren't really two completely different ones.
     
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  45. BeastyBill88

    BeastyBill88 Well-Known Member

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    I was going to say Linke Rheinstrecke has all new locos? But looking at the dlc store page it looks like the 110 & N-Wagens are on the Bahnstrecke Bremen route as well
     
  46. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it is the 103 is the only thing new and an goods wagon
     
  47. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    It is rare to get more than one new loco and getting more only happens out of necessity, such as a route being the first route of its kind. It has always been this way. The routes that have had two or more new trains from scratch were the first US freight route, the first modern UK route, the first BR era UK route, the first steam UK route etc. There have been plenty of reused or reworked (it’s never just a reskin!) trains/locos included in routes after that and in many cases the layers and substitutions add variety. When a loco is included there is also usually a new item of rolling stock added too. Then there are the loco DLC for certain routes.

    There have also been routes that come with one train and one train only and that is all that is on the route full stop. However, the norm is and always has been one totally new loco per route and more than the one has only been delivered when it has been absolutely necessary to include more. I’m sure someone could make a sequential list of route releases and then list what was new, what was reused (Dosto, SD40 or Class 66 guaranteed) and what was a layer or loco DLC and you could see the one new loco per route quite easily.

    So this is nothing new, one new loco and some reused locos. That is all we should expect in any route because it is how TSW is made. Occasionally we get a bonus of extra stuff but it is quite rare.
     
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  48. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Well, the number crunchers at DTG must have figured out that the one route, one new loco with the most minimal timetable paradigm is the most profitable business plan.

    For me, though, it has meant that I'm much more selective in my purchasing decisions.

    I used to snap up most everything that launched but, in the 18 months or so since Rush Hour, I haven't bought much, except in sales. And I'll be leaving MML and PF on the shelf for now.

    Since Rush Hour ( the last time I think we got value for money ):

    Of the American catalog, I decided that only CJP and Acela were worth the full asking price. I was expecting so much of NYT and it is such a huge disappointment.

    With UK routes, I have found nothing since BML that I thought was worth the $40. So I wait for sales .

    And I'm rediscovering the German catalog as the one that gives the most value.
    Actually, I think it always did in terms of modeling and game play, but until Mainz- Koblenz and Niddertalbahn the locos all looked much the same to me so I didn't bite.

    I don't expect this business plan to change markedly in the future.

    The best that I hope for is that Focus will use its influence to compel DTG to return to the North American market in a serious way. There has been a hint or two to that effect. Surely DTG cannot release another let- down like NYT.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2023
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  49. Mitchellman151

    Mitchellman151 Member

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    Absoulutley, feel like " via scenario planner" is becoming a get out of jail free card
     
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  50. Southern Driver

    Southern Driver Active Member

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    Not for me, I’ll be passing on this one.
    I do wonder whether it will form the template for a MML add on though. Not that far to go to adapt it and turn it into a MML extension route to Sheffield and Matlock.
     
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