Upcoming Release Peak Forest Railway - Coming Soon

Taken today. sky just blown right out

 

Have you ever looked in the sky on a bright sunny day? In that particular shot you seem to be looking right at the sun. You wouldn't even be able to do that in real life.

Shot looks realistic to me.

 

I haven't had time to watch the whole preview did anyone mention if passenger trains will get banking help as well or is it just goods wagons?.

 

As a console player, once again, I'd really appreciate ingame sliders for the engine.ini settings PC players are already modifying to tone this down.

 

Managed to get a chance today to watch the stream. It’s definitely a very scenic atmospheric route, with a high level of detail in the scenery.

I was wondering if the new passenger models and/or clothing is also available on SOS ?

 

I've just finished the preview stream. The route does look beautiful and really well built. The stations look beautifully made. I like the look of the 4F nice whistle and sounds although the safety valve was a little louder than the Jubilee and 8F.

I do wish they'd found a way to implement pickup and drop off goods into the timetable, although that scenario looks like fun with the 8F. Its a shame we never get to mess with all those little goods yards on the sides of stations!

Otherwise I hope this route does get a little love from more dlc especially for those local services be it diesel hauled or not

Side note I hope the Jubilee doesn't suffer from the same head out camera issue (camera colliding and going above the locomotive) that myself and many others have reported as of the SOS patch

 

Loading and unloading trains was a nice little feature of Train Sim World: CSX Heavy Haul. Since then, we've barely made any progress on cargo loading/unloading, with only a few other routes making use of the feature, and only hopper-wagons. I wish there'd be a little more focus on further developing this feature.

 

There are loading services in the Quarry for the ICI wagons if I remember right. I'm interested to give those a go with Steam! Especially as apparently they're on a slight gradient so could prove a fun challenge.

But yeah I totally agree it'd be nice to play with it more

 

I must say, from the preview stream the route looks really good, and like it's loads of fun to play.

I do maintain that some diesels are kind of needed to bring the feel of the route home, be it at release or in a pack soon after. I'd also love to see the line start in Derby, but one can't have everything I guess.

I'll probably not be buying this at or before release, as I already got a load of content to keep me busy, and I do feel like some bug fixing and upgrading is in order (but this has now been announced in the roadmap). But overall I'm not riding high on a wave of DLC buying madness, and I can wait untill a slight sale later on, especially if that means that I can perhaps buy this route together with a Diesel expansion pack for it in the future.

 

Agreed. In general, I feel we’re heading in a pretty good direction as far as the ‘big stuff’ is concerned - running trains on the mainline etc. Feature/content-wise, I’d love an expansion of the ‘smaller’ stuff as well - shunting (functional angle cocks, brake tests, etc.) and local industries (akin to what OSD was supposed to be).

 

I know i keep ragging about this but with the interduction of this smaller steam loco(4F) i'm really hoping a 0-6-0 tank engine won't be far away.(And no i don't mean a little blue one from a magical island).

 

I realize that steam is a continual work in progress, but gee whiz it would be nice if somebody added the valve gear steam exhaust. A steam engine just looks wrong with nothing blowing out of the sides.

 

Absolutely. Pottering along a branch line with a Jinty or 57xx Pannier Tank would be sheer joy.

One I remember from MSTS days is the old Highworth branch (actually not a million miles from my doorstep). It was only around 7 miles long plus the run into Swindon but it was a most delightful piece of work. Or something like the Lambourn Valley branch which could not only see steam but a GWR Diesel Railcar too.

 

Therein lies the problem with this though, and the backwards way it is implemented. This kind of blowout only happens in TSW3 if you are NOT looking directly at the sun. When you look DIRECTLY at the sun is the only time the "eye adaptation" dials down the bloom and brings the shadowing on everything else in the scene up to a natural realistic level. If you look at the horizon or lower, everything above it, and much of the ground itself, is whited out to the extreme.

 

It seems like that in some instances the overbrightness appears to be present only on the footplate. I think this issue is more to do with the eye adaptation rather than overall brightness level. Here for example the terrain is quite flat and in exterior view it looks way better than in cab view.

 

I recall Matt identifying with the TOD3-4 transition that clouds threw something out of syn c making it super bright, this was back when tsw3 released but I don't ever recall anything being mentioned thereafter unless I've missed something

 

The eye adaptation isn’t right and it’s a core issue. Any small amount of shadow in any part of the scene, such as in a tree lined section of a route or cutting, or if you move the external camera close to a loco and a part of its shadow is in the frame and the iris opens up to allow in too much light, which in the game’s terms results in blown out whites and a total lack of contrast. It needs to start opening up later, when there is more darkness in the scene, so that the contrast is preserved. I don’t even know if they can make that change but that’s what seems to be happening. Further up the scale when it does go really dark, at night, the iris isn’t opening up enough to simulate when your eyes would adjust to the darkness, which would take several minutes in real life of course but never happens in TSW. All routes are going to suffer from this unless they change something.

 

The route itself looks incredible and the route-building team should be congratulated. The attention to detail in the scenery and the ambience is spot-on, well done.

The timetable looks to be based on the 1963 real-life timetable too and automated timing calculations appear to have been avoided, which is another box ticked. Between this and the steam physics updates, I've moved from 'not buying' to 'maybe'. However, I still have real reservations about the gameplay.

Let's take a look at that passenger timetable - available on timetableworld.com.

Timetable World

Buxton Midland passenger services
The DMU service between Buxton Midland and Miller's Dale won't be represented - this amounts to a total of 18 missing services in each direction. It also means that Buxton station will only see three departures (7:10am, 8am and 9:15am all heading to Chinley) and two arrivals (8:16am and 6:30pm), presumably all hauled by a Jubilee which I think is more or less period-accurate. These shuttle services can't be represented by anything else as the track and signalling layout in 1963 means that it would need push-pull or DMU operation.

It seems a bit of a waste of such a gorgeous station and all the hard work put into the Buxton branch to only have five playable passenger services over the whole day?

Unless there's a Class 104 in development, there really should be a Class 101 in green included for these services (or at least as part of a forthcoming loco pack - not years in the future please!).



Local stopping services
As it was confirmed on the stream that they aren't included, there will be at least six missing all-stop local services in each direction. These would normally have been operated by something like a DMU, Black Five or 4MT 2-6-0 as far as I can tell (sources vary) - maybe the 4F could be used for these with say 2 or 3 Mark 1s?

No pick-up/drop-off goods on the timetable?
It also looks like there is a pick-up/drop-off local goods service but it's in a scenario rather than on the timetable. Appreciate that it's probably a bit harder to incorporate that kind of service into the timetable but it would add some really nice variety (being able to do it in different conditions at different times of year). Would have been an ideal way to utilise the 4F a bit more - it seems largely confined to shunting and banking duties at the moment.

It also would add some flavour even as AI - shooting through with a player express service while a 4F shunts away in the yard? Yes please. It would also allow us to spend some more time in the yards on the route which have clearly had a lot of love from the route-building team.

Class 45 'Peak'
These diesels were mainstays on this route by 1963 - they're even named for it! Considering that we already have a blue Peak from NTP, I'm really surprised there isn't a plan to make the necessary model adjustments and have this in BR green with the head code box included on this route. Here's a photo of a brand-new Peak in 1959 taking a northbound express through Darley Dale.



Given this is a pretty in-depth post, I'd also say that this isn't just about rivet-counting and perfect historical accuracy, it's about the variety and accessibility of gameplay. Some people find steam locos too complicated to drive and that's absolutely fine - why not give them the opportunity to enjoy this gorgeous route from the cab of a prototypical diesel instead? There are plenty out there too who enjoy the thrash of a heritage diesel just as much as a hard-working steam loco.

Fundamentally it's about having as many ways as possible to enjoy this route. As Matt once mentioned, not every route has to be a magnum opus but this looks to be really close - let's fulfil Peak Forest's potential!

 

Watched the first 45 minutes or so of the stream and it is looking pretty good, but as always, a couple of observations (I'll mark it on the map for you...)

Agree about concerns re the lighting, it really does look more like the Med or Tenerife than Derbyshire. This absolutely must be addressed in the core.

The 4F looks absolutely brilliant and (apart from the safety valve) sounds good too. A shame it appears to be a bit limited in terms of playable services. In fact as Matt strolled through the various timetables it becomes apparent many of the 4F and 8F services are only a few minutes long. If the intent is to chain, then I do think it's necessary to remind DTG Matt and DTG Alex that remains one of the fall downs of the save game - if you save on a subsequent run, more than likely when you resume the objective data/lollipop and the clock in the top LH of the screen do not re-appear.

Banking... would seem to be a bit of a fudge. From what I could see the leading loco is effectively working "in multiple" with your control settings on the rear loco. Really they should be working independently with the train engine providing the bulk of the power and the banker pushing up as necessary.

 

I totally agree re Goods workings (and with everything else). Its quite a shame we have those great little goods yards on all stations but we don't ever get to interact with them. Apart from in this scenario. Being such a massive part of the railways it'd be really nice to see it implemented in timetable mode!

Potential maybe for the scenario to be testing the water for it maybe? Either way I'm excited for the scenario

 

Didn't they say on the stream that the pick-up/drop-off scenario was being considered the best in the game by the beta testers? Perhaps this will spur action on including them in the timetable in the future.

 

The code needs to "git gud" so that if you start to run late on the "notional" freight schedule, the AI signaller will intervene and run faster trains by you or regulate your service out the way.

One of the ongoing issues with freight services in TSW, is that in the UK these did and still do run to a proper working timetable or schedule. There is a little more latitude and they can maybe depart earlier if there are no conflicts with other traffic, but they do have a schedule/path integrated with the rest of the timetable.

 

It's the same in the US. In fact, before WW2 and in places well into the 1950s, all US signals and switches were set according to the timetable (as modified by train orders and signalmen/stationmasters reporting trains passing), and trains not running to time were to be avoided like boiler explosions.

 

If you can forgive a little pedantry, the first 10 built (D1-D10, actually Class 44s, with slightly lower power engines) were all named after British mountains, hence the class name, which was then applied to Class 45 and Class 46 as well. None of the named mountains were in the Peak District, sadly.

 

I stand corrected, and I'm all for attention to detail! I'd made an assumption based on the fact I knew they were synonymous with the line, didn't realise the etymology was different

 

Yes, watched another 40 minutes and the lighting is really going to spoil the experience. Even on a bright sunny day this should be a bleak and rugged part of the UK. I also wonder if they’ve gone a bit overboard with the trees, not to the extent of WCL maybe but seems a cheap scenic device and not helping the light is making them all bright green in appearance.

 

This is a “so close and yet so far” route for me. It looks well made, and is set in an era I love, representing a beautiful location which I know well, with a fascinating railway history. It even looks as if they’ve used real timings from a timetable from the era - which is superb. It should be a perfect route for me.

Sadly, the new steam physics on SoS are a real turn-off for me - it seems to have become almost impossible to lose boiler pressure (unless you do really crazy things) which means that safety valves blow even more than before. For me the interest in driving steam engines is the management of the boiler pressure and having to judge how much power to use, and when. If you just have pretty much infinite steam, it takes the interest out of it. Matt has indicated that there can be future tweaks, but I fear DTG are on a hiding to nothing with this - if they make it challenging like the real thing, people will say it’s broken and impossible to maintain steam. They can’t win, and I suspect in the end they’ll err on the side of ‘game’ rather than ‘simulator’ and make it easy - understandably, because that’s what the majority of their player base will want. I’ll still maintain hope, and keep checking back to SoS to test it whenever a change to steam physics is announced, but until it’s more realistic I won’t buy any more routes which only have steam trains…

Which brings us back to Peak Forest, because it’s an absolutely ideal route for combining steam with diesel. With the addition of a 104 (or even a green 101) on local services, I’d buy it in the blink of an eye - at full price. A green 45 would be good too, but in itself wouldn’t tempt me because it would have to work express trains calling at Ambergate, which just feels wrong.

I am almost tempted to buy this route just to show support for non-modern era routes. I have a horrible feeling it won’t sell well and will be used as a reason to return to modern EMUs. But £27 for a route I’m not going to play, just to show support, is too much. I just need the slightest excuse to get it…

 

Yeah, I'd get it too, since I also want to see more like this, but right now until we get those lighting sliders in a core update, I won't be buying any routes.

 

The boiler pressure actually decrease as we accelerate the train from stand still. The safety valve does set off when we stand still or when we maintaining a certain speed with small cutoff setting & appropriate regulator opening.

 

If you have both dampers open it is pretty much impossible to lose steam pressure. Essentially steam in TSW is diesel with a regulator and reverser. It’s fun and visually nice, but doesn’t come close to even basic physics in MSTS and TSC.

 

They still have not fixed the game continuously crashing when loading into a Jubilee timetable service that starts from Crewe on Spirit of Steam. This is on Xbox One.

 

Is the lighting something a Modder like Londonmidland can sort out or is that not possible ? Sounding like I may have to refund if not.

As icyrrjp says “so close and yet so far”

 

Open the dampers (as Vern says), close the cylinder cocks (once the train is moving), close the larger ejector (as soon as the brakes have released), put the small ejector at about 30%, reduce the cut off quickly and open the regulator quickly as you accelerate. You’ll get away losing almost no boiler pressure. From that point on leave the regulator wide open and adjust the cut off so that boiler pressure stays fractionally below the point at which the safety valves lift.

Doing that you’ll find you have a lot of power (much more than the loco has in real life) without ever having to sacrifice boiler pressure.

 

Great comment! Very informative, plus your writing style is really nice.
I was always curious about the Buxton - Miller’s Dale shuttle and the other diesel services on the route, this answered all my questions.

 

Honestly it's because these missing services that my purchase of this route won't be for several months, yeah it looks stunning but for services it just seems so half hearted with a lot missing.

 

I'm unsure whether to buy it or not it does look a lovely route but no doubt empty like most of the other routes

 

The scenery looks like a Train Simulator route from 2012, the steam physics are not advanced in any way, the timetable is empty, the lighting is ugly, the texturing is too... I wouldn't have got it if it was free.

 

Wow...that's really harsh IMO.

Sometimes i think people forget what graphics looked like 10, 20, etc years ago. Actual TS2012 screens in this review.

https://www.pcgamer.com/train-simulator-2012-review/

We all have times of frustration with the game- maybe take a break for a minute lol

 

Less than 12 hours before the xbox release. Can’t wait!!!

 

I play older Train Sim routes very frequently. I've been playing TS for almost ten years now. I know how the standards for route scenery has changed since Rail Simulator. Not only is Peak Forest far below the standard of Train Simulator routes released five years ago, parts of it (shown off well by the screenshots in this thread) do show an emptiness in the scenery that was common before Dovetail started to take scenery seriously. Therefore realistically this route is about the same level of detail as London to Brighton for TS when it comes to scenery, bar the cherry-picked screenshots seen on the articles... Few of which show any distant scenery.

The combination of poor texturing on the locomotive and the appalling lighting makes it closer to photographic grey than dirty black.

Notice the lack of close-range scenery on the left.

The close scenery here is good, but look at the bare hills.

Yes, I am harsh, but for good reason. It's a pitiful route that isn't worth its price. There really are dozens Train Simulator routes released years ago that have more to do and look better, all for less money. Even older Train Sim World routes are a better deal than Peak Forest. It's a pity that the restructuring of TSW route development that happened a few years ago to make routes better quality hasn't panned out at all. Up until very recently one could spend more than £10 less than this route and bought Train Simulator, which came with:

• A 113-mile and beautifully detailed main line with high-speed, suburban, metro and freight operations.
• A 68-mile freight route with five different locomotives with some impressive scenery
• An 80-mile main line with express, suburban, metro and freight operations

There is no possible way to justify Peak Forest's pricing and quality compared to the base versions of Train Simulator. Even if the new bundle for Train Simulator is slightly worse value than before, with LIRR being a very good looking dud, the sheer variety of content in the Huddersfield Line still shames Peak Forest.

 

While I agree that some of the scenery looks great in TSC, the huddersfield line you mentioned is notorious for having poor curved track sections, instead of being a smooth curve, it feels like it’s a bunch of straight tracks joint together. Moreover up until the first patch, there were tons of missing scenery items. And the rolling stock provided was not built for the era the track was supposed to be. I had to download scenarios off websites + buy the pre requisites to run modern trains on the route.
It’s easy to say that you can get cheaper routes on TSC, but no one mentions the tons of addons you need to buy on top of that to run realistic scenarios. Cost does add up.

 

At no point did I say it was a good route, just it had a wide variety of trains available. Plus it's a bit cheeky to complain about the time period when the Island Line and to an extent West Cornwall Local mess around with it too, the former especially.

 

It’s the lighting in TSW that’s doing it, in fact starting to look more like a Unity game in some of the imagery than UE4. I was having a drive with the TSC Jubilee last night on WCML over Shap, having finished a run with the Jubilee on SoS. It is like night and day. The Jub in TSC looks and sounds so much better and the performance and physics too. TSW steam kind of reminds me when Auran (now N3V) first put steam into Trainz, very arcade and unrealistic. I’m still looking forward to Peak Forest and will accept it for what it is, but that’s why they should have included a diesel layer.

 

I agree about the scenery but not the pricing. West Cornwall Local should have been a free route as the scenery is absolutely appalling. It is my local route and have travelled on it for 70 years and St. Ives and Penzance look like fantasy places compared to reality and Rivet have done nothing to correct it. The route looks so incomplete. I don’t know the Peak Forest for accuracy but it looks pretty impressive to me, only someone who knows the area well can judge!