Pegnitztalbahn ( Nürnberg Hbf - Bayreuth Hbf): German Diesels ( Ice Td, Br 612)

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by jolojonasgames, Apr 30, 2021.

?
  1. Yes, set in 2002 with the ICE TD and BR 610

    43 vote(s)
    49.4%
  2. Yes, in the modern day with the BR 612 and Alstom Coradia LINT

    35 vote(s)
    40.2%
  3. Maybe it it's on sale

    1 vote(s)
    1.1%
  4. No

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Yes, no matter the year it's set in.

    8 vote(s)
    9.2%
  1. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Hi all, as TSW is long overdue for seeing some German Diesel action I'm suggesting a route that I think would cater to the wishes of a lot of players. This suggestion (like my Luxembourg - Trier suggestion) has two options for which time it could be set in. Modern day wouldn't see the ICE, instead having the Franken-Sachsen-Express. However, setting the route around 2002 would allow for the ICE TD being introduced with this route, which I'm sure would interest a lot of players. Therfore I'll be mainly focussing on that era in this suggestion, although I will include rolling stock and service information for the modern era too (aswell as giving you all a choice in the poll above)

    [​IMG]

    Contents

    • The route
      • General description
      • Services
    • Rolling stock
      • What comes with the route when it's set in 2002?
        • ICE TD (BR 605)
        • BR 610
      • What comes with the route if it's set in the modern day?
        • BR 612
        • Alstom Coradia LINT (BR 622 or 648)
      • DLC (only applicable to the route if it's set in 2002)
        • BR 218
      • Layering
    • Final words
    • Suggestion video (by forum user Timmy, TrainSmqsherWorld on Youtube)
    • Pictures

    The route
    [​IMG]

    General description

    I'm suggesting the southern section of the Pegnitztalbahn which is double tracked, between Nürnberg and Schnabelwaid, with the mostly single track connecting line to Bayreuth Hbf. The route is unelectrified, thus requiring diesel traction, and has a length of 93.2 km. With it's many curves the Pegnitztalbahn has become home to a lot of German diesel tilting trains, such as the BR 610, 612 and 605. The many curves also make for a very scenic railway, running along the meandering river Pegnitz. The railway also has to cut through a few mountains, leading to there being quite a few tunnels along the route. As mentioned before, the main section of the route is double tracked (or even triple, around Hersbruck), while the connecting line between Bayreuth and Schnabelwaid has only one track. This will make for a nice difference in gameplay experience. Speeds along the line vary between 100 km/h and 120 km/h, although tilting trains are allowed to go faster in corners. This is due to the line being fitted with GNT, which now is present on Dresden - Chemnitz and the BR 612 (which in the 2002 could be a layer, while we're at it). This would give different gameplay experiences between the BR 610 and BR 605 ICE TD and conventional locos that come as layers or DLC (such as the BR 218 or BR 232).

    The route has (the option for) multiple large yards. Just east of Nürnberg Hbf there are multiple sidings that are used for storing passenger rolling stock, here some "Nürnberg Hbf to depot" services could be put into place, Bayreuth doesn't really have many sidings like these. At Nürnberg there are also large depots just west of the main station, where trains get repaired. On top of all this ther is the possibility of adding the DB Cargo AG werk Nürnberg, a large freight yard, where many locomotives and freight wagons are stored and maintained. The line to the DB Cargo yard splits of just before Nürnberg Hbf when you're coming from Bayreuth, and can be accesed in both directions. If DTG decides to add this for the freight services, they could also make the area really busy with AI freight traffic with electric locos, layering in from other routes.

    Services
    I've based these services on the 2021 timetable, only adding in the ICE 17 services. The timetable might not by 100% accurate for 2002 (for example the Sachsen-Franken-Express didn't run back then, but should give a rough idea of services and their length. I've also not included which rolling stock operate which service, as this differs between 2002 and 2021. There are a lot of services that uncouple and split, continueing to different stations at certain points on the route, this could make for some really interesting gameplay with scheduled coupling and uncoupling of trains.

    ICE 17*
    Nürnberg HbfBayreuth Hbf
    (onwards to Hof Hbf)
    Every two hours

    RE 30**
    Nürnberg Hbf
    – Neuhaus (Pegnitz) – Pegnitz – Bayreuth Hbf –
    (onwards to Hof Hbf)
    Every hour

    RB 30
    Nürnberg Hbf – Lauf (r Pegnitz) – Neunkirchen a. Sand – Hersbruck (r Pegnitz) – Neuhaus (Pegnitz)

    Every hour (extra services during rush hour)

    RE 31**
    Nürnberg Hbf – Neuhaus (Pegnitz) – Pegnitz –
    (onwards to Marktredwitz)
    Every hour

    RB 31
    Nürnberg Hbf
    – Lauf (r Pegnitz) – Neunkirchen a Sand – (onwards to Simmelsdorf-Hüttenbach)
    Every hour (on weekdays only)

    RE 32
    Nürnberg Hbf
    – Hersbruck (r Pegnitz) – Pegnitz – Bayreuth Hbf – (onwards to Neuenmarkt-Wirsberg)
    Every hour (on weekdays only)

    RE 33**
    Nürnberg Hbf
    – Neuhaus (Pegnitz) – Pegnitz – (onwards to Marktredwitz)
    Every two hours

    RE 40***
    Nürnberg Hbf – Hersbruck (r Pegnitz) –
    (onwards to Hartmannshof)
    Every hour (extra services during rush hour)

    RE 41***
    Nürnberg Hbf – Hersbruck (r Pegnitz) –
    (onwards to Hartmannshof)
    Every hour

    *ICE services only in 2002
    **RE 30 runs coupled together with either RE 31 or RE 33 until Pegnitz, where the trains split
    ***RE 40 and RE 41 run coupled together until Neunkirchen, where the trains split.

    Rolling stock
    This time, unusually, the rolling stock is split into two sections: 2002 and modern day, with 2002 containing the the ICE TD and BR 610, and the modern day containing the BR 612 and Alstom Coradia LINT.


    What comes with the route when it's set in 2002?

    ICE TD (BR 605)
    [​IMG]

    The ICE-TD is the odd one out in the ICE familiy. Not only is it a tilting train (like the ICE T), it is also the only diesel powered ICE. It's top speed is noticably lower then other ICEs, at 200 km/h, however, it still managed to increase speeds on curving diesel lines. The ICE-TD has proven problematic from the start, with the tilting ability temporarily taken out of action in 2003. The ICE TD is most well-known for it's ferry services between Hamburg and København, but it was also of major importance on this route, where it replaced InterRegio services, introducing ICE services to an area that previously hadn't seen them. After it's removal from this line the Nürnberg - Dresden connection still hasn't gotten back to the speed the ICE-TD introduced. Nowadays the trip takes considerably more time. After not even twenty years in service the ICE-TD was taken out of passenger service by DB in 2017, with most units being put aside or scrapped. Two units however were turned into Advanced TrainLabs, becoming moving laboratorys for track surveying and research. That last job seems to be the only luck these trains ever had, with most of their carreers being plagued with technical issues, a lack of demand (pretty much all connections with a demand for ICE traffic were also important enough to electrify), and a unlucky accident record. More info on wikipedia.

    BR 610
    [​IMG]

    The BR 610 was one of the first tilting trains owned and operated by DB. It was one of the most important DMUs on the Pegnitztalbahn for most of it's life. If the route is set in 2002 this will operate most of the RE and RB services on the line. The BR 610 has a top speed of 160 km/h, although it doesn't reach that on this route (as far as I know). Unlike the BR 612 in game, the BR 610 is diesel-electric (as opposed to diesel-hydaulic), being one of the first German DMUs powered in this way. The BR 610 uses tilting technology from FIAT, relying on hydraulic controls. On the later BR 611 and 612, these tilting controls were made electric to save costs, but the electric system has proven way more unreliable, especially on the BR 611. The BR 610 however enjoyed a mostly problemless service life, except for a period in 2001 when metal fatigue showed in tilting components. After replacing and strengthening these components the BR 610 remained in service tilting reliably. In 2012 most were taken out of service after two decades of (mostly :)) reliable-ish service. More info on wikipedia.

    What comes with the route if it's set in the modern day?

    BR 612
    [​IMG]

    The BR 612 was developed after the BR 611 proved dissapointing. The 612, also known as RegioSwinger due to it's tilting action, has a top speed of 160 km/h. The first DMUs of this type were built in 1998, with production lasting until 2003. The introduction of the BR 612 on the Pegnitztalbahn didn't really pick up until after the cancellation of ICE TD services in 2003, although they could already be seen before that. More info on wikipedia.

    Alstom Coradia LINT (BR 622 or 648)
    [​IMG]

    In the modern day most RB services are operated by LINT EMUs. On this route two different types are used: The 648 (LINT 41), which uses jacobs bogies and the more modern 622 (LINT 54) that has seperate bogies at. each carriage end. The LINTs have a top speed of 120 or 140 km/h depending on the type. More info on wikipedia.

    DLC (only applicable to the route if it's set in 2002)

    BR 218
    [​IMG]

    The BR 218 is one of the most important German diesel locos. Developed as the V160 in the late '60s and early '70s, this type still forms the backbone of loco-hauled services on non-electrified lines (although it's gradually being replaced by DMUs, electrification or the more modern BR 245). In the era around 2002 the BR 218 operated RB and RE services on the Pegnitztalbahn, hauling n-Wagen, sometimes in double traction. It might also add some freight services to the route, as the BR 218 is no stranger to hauling freight. The BR 218 has a top speed of 140 km/h, just like the n-Wagen. More info on wikipedia.

    Layering
    There aren't many layering possibilities, because there arent a lot of German diesel locos, and no DMUs yet. However the following layering could be seen.

    • BR 612: On the 2002 timetable the BR 216 could layer in, mostly on the BR 610 operated RB and RE services.
    • BR 232: This loco hauls many scheduled freight services on the Pegnitztalbahn, and could provide the route with freight services.
    • BR 204: Some light freight services might also be operated by the BR 204, which would give owners of this loco a little more bang for their buck, as the 204 lacks layering and services at the moment.
    • BR 363 (both versions): Depending on which yards get included with the route, the 363 could do some shunting of passenger coaches or freight wagons.

    Final words
    The Pegnitztalbahn would be a very good introduction to German diesels. It has the option of the ICE TD, which could attract many people, as the ICEs seem popular. Besides that it also has interesting and frequent services, with scheduled splitting and joining of trains. The rolling stock that could come with this route is all very interesting, with the tilting BR 605, 610 and 612, and the beloved BR 218. Let me know what era you'd like to see this route in and why, and do vote in the poll. Also let me know any other thoughts you have about this route suggestion or any information you'd like to add or correct :).

    Suggestion video (by forum user Timmy, TrainSmqsherWorld on Youtube)
    Forum user Timmy has also made a video (in German) covering this route suggestion on his channel, feel free to give it a watch if you're interested!



    Pictures

    [​IMG]
    An ICE TD in the direction of Hersbruck near Ranna

    [​IMG]
    Another 2 ICE TDs, near Hersbruck


    [​IMG]

    A BR 610 in Hersbruck (r Pegnitz)

    [​IMG]
    Not 2, not 3, but 4 coupled BR 610s near Reichenschwand. This train will split later on in it's journey.

    [​IMG]
    The inside of a tilting BR 612

    [​IMG]
    A BR 218 with n-Wagen near Hersbruck (r Pegnitz)


    [​IMG]
    2 BR 218's running as light engines towards Nürnberg at Neuhaus (Pegnitz).

    [​IMG]
    A BR 232 with a freight train, west of Hersbruck

    [​IMG]
    A BR 612 at the point where the line to Bayreuth Hbf diverges from the Pegnitztalbahn to Cheb.

    [​IMG]
    A BR 612 coming out of a tunnel near Velden

    [​IMG]
    A BR 612 in Creußen

    [​IMG]
    A LINT 41 heading towards Nürnberg coming out of a tunnel near Velden.

    [​IMG]
    A BR 232 coming out of the same tunnel near Velden
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2022
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  2. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    An ICE TD near Reichenschwand

    [​IMG]
    An ICE TD near Ranna, heading to Hersbruck

    [​IMG]
    A BR 232 hauling a freight train loaded with cars near Neuhaus (Pegnitz)

    [​IMG]
    A BR 232, onceagain with a freight train loaded with cars, this time near Hersbruck.

    [​IMG]
    a LINT between Pegnitz and Ruprechtstegen

    [​IMG]
    Two BR 610s splitting in Pegnitz

    [​IMG]
    A LINT near Reichenschwand.

    [​IMG]
    A BR 232 with a mixed freight train near Eschenback (inbetween Vorra and Hersbruck)

    [​IMG]
    Nürnberg Hbf

    [​IMG]
    The DB Cargo maintenance facilities at the DB Cargo Nürnberg yard.

    [​IMG]
    The DB Cargo Nürnberg Yard

    [​IMG]
    Bayreuth Hbf
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
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  3. creeperblox2710

    creeperblox2710 Well-Known Member

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    We NEED the ICE T or TDs, They are a masterpiece! Definitly support this Route
     
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  4. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a fan of the more modern trains, and not a fan of yet more ICEs, but I really would like to see those older diesel trains in the game. :)
     
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  5. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I think that's the beauty of this route. It has both the older diesel trains like the BR 218, 232 and 610, which I too really enjoy. On the other hand, players that like modern stuff more could have the ICE TD.
     
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  6. anas.hera

    anas.hera Active Member

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    I’ve also suggested a diesel route - at least now I’m sure that I’m not alone in saying we need a diesel route for TSW
     
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  7. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    2002 setting it's the best for this route because you have two high speed diesel tilting trains something that we don't have right now because the only one left is a DB BR612 100 mph 160 km/h max speed
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
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  8. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    Yes you're right
     
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  9. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    Really nice suggestion, and that's also a really nice route, the Only thing is I want the ICE TD with the Br612, maybe DTG could firstly set the Layers of the modern days but then add with DLCs the ICE TD and the Br610
     
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  10. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I'd like both too. The BR 612 could be a DLC if it's set in 2002 (as I've currently mentioned within the suggestion).

    The reason I chose for the ICE TD and BR 610 in 2002, is because at that time the 610 was still way more frequent than the 612. If DTG feels liks it however, they could set the route in 2002 with the ICE TD and BR 612, and have the BR 610 (and BR 218) as DLC, even though this would be a little less representative of the route, it still wouldn't be unrealistic.
     
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  11. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    They won't reach 160 though. Speed limits vary between 100 and 120 km/h (although I believe they're slightly higher for tilting trains). Only the section just out of Nürnberg has a speed limit of 140 km/h
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
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  12. Timmy

    Timmy Member

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    The route
    [​IMG]


    Hey :)
    may I use this route-overview picture for my TSW2 suggestions video for my YouTube channel?
    I also would like put the link of this thread into the description if this is fine. :)
     
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  13. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Sure! As long as you put the link in the video description that's no problem :). If you make a video about this route I'd be more than happy to link it here by the way.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2021
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  14. flystentz

    flystentz Member

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    Would love to see a route with the Lint 41 (648) as they rund for Arriva on my local routes in Denmark
     
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  15. Timmy

    Timmy Member

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    Okey, thank you! :) I planned to uplaod the video on this route next weekend. You'll be able to watch in on my (german) channel "TrainSmqsherWorld" on YouTube. Just that you know where you will be able to find my video on your suggestion. :)
     
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  16. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Just saw the video, great work! It's really nice to see my suggestions also get other people enthousiastic, and having it in a video format (in German) might also help reach a wider audience. For those curious, the video can be seen below, and I'll also link it in the main post :).

     
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  17. renaldo444

    renaldo444 Member

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    Hey.
    I would really like also other route than Germany but this one looks great i agree looks very interesting those fast diesel trains something different than the fast electric ones like that idea i would definitely buy it ✌️

    I hope that you will be able to get your dream/suggestion route have a nice day
     
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  18. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    A German video featuring the ICE-TD, mostly shot on the Pegnitztalbahn in the early 2000s.
     
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  19. cadeshr6s

    cadeshr6s Active Member

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    Actually I think and that is Just my oppinion, I dont care If the train are running on the Line are from the right year. So I wouldnt mind If an ICE TD is driving next to a Coradia Lint. I would Like to See all the suggested Locos and DMUs on the Route.
     
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  20. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to note that with the BR 612 coming with Dresden - Chemnitz, this could be a layer on the base route if it's set in 2002. This would give you not only the ICE-TD and BR 610, but also the BR 612 and 232 from the get go, providing you own the corresponding DLCs.
     
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  21. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    If modern-day version was used owners of Tharandter Rampe Dresden Chemnitz get DB BR612 to use here while DB BR642/648 DB BR218 Standard.
     
  22. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    The advent of the BR 612 will change things for thiss suggestion probably. Perhaps it will be more likely to come with the BR 612 and a modern timetable now, even though the 2002 ICE TD timetable would still be way more interesting, and could see the Dresden - Chemnitz BR 612 as a layer (although it might have a wrong modernized interior for the era?)

    However, it does at the very least prove the feasibility of a Tilting DMU, and will introduce German DMUs to the game for much needed variety.
     
  23. kjeld.dejager

    kjeld.dejager Member

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    i think it can set in the modern version and add the ICE TD as a DLC JUST LIKE THE 155 what also is out of service
     
  24. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    That probably would not go down well with the community. The 155 is out of service with DB currently, but the Ruhr-Sieg-Nord is set in 2008 (if I recall correctly), when the BR 155 was still in service, making it accurate for the route. I do personally still prefer setting it in 2002, as it makes the route more unique and keeps the ICE TD era appropriate.
     
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  25. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Good point this is the Southern section of RE3 RB30 Dresden Chemnitz Gutenfürst Hof Bayreuth Nürnberg Hbf route pre 2012 2013 electrification of Werdau Gutenfürst Hof line.
     
  26. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I have updated and expanded information to take the (upcoming) release of Dresden - Chemnitz and the BR 612 into account. I also made some general improvement, adding information where it was previously quite sparse.
     

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