Train Sim World 3 Peninsulacor / Oakvillesub Livery Designer & Scenario Planner Issues After Preservation Update

Discussion in 'TSW Troubleshooting & Issues Discussion' started by TripleJ814, Jan 2, 2023.

  1. TripleJ814

    TripleJ814 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2020
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    1,336
    With the release of Train Sim World 3, Peninsula Corridor's heavily delayed preservation crew update was released, full of problems, This was almost 4 months ago.

    The baby bullet had Livery Designer compatibility since Spring 2021 (It was the second train to get compatibility after the East Coastway 377). With this preservation crew update, they changed the formations in the Livery Designer. Instead of being separate Locomotive, Coach, and Cab Car, now they're all combined in the Livery Designer like this: [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I understand why they made the change. Back then in TSW 2, if you wanted to use custom Livery Designer liveries in Scenario Planner, the back loco/cab car would be flipped the wrong way, this isn't just an issue with the Baby Bullet, this problem exists on multiple trains, such as the German Dostos Coaches.

    I believe they made this change to prevent that problem, however, this change has a lot of flaws.

    1) You can't repaint the locomotive or coaches separately. Let's say, for example, you wanted to make a repaint for the MBTA's MP36PH-3C. MBTA doesn't have Bombardier BiLevel coaches.
    Back in Train Sim World 2, this wouldn't have been a problem, you could just repaint the loco, and that was that. Now in Train Sim World 3 with the change, you're forced to have the whole train. This is a problem, as MBTA Bombardier BiLevel's are unrealistic.

    2) Any livery you have created for either the MP36PH-3C or Bombardier BiLevel coaches in Train Sim World 2, is gone in Train Sim World 3, they're incompatible. Essentially we're losing our work. (Including if you use the official profile transfer DTG offered)

    3) This creates a lot of bugs when wanting to use these custom liveries in the game. We can't use the liveries at all when we want to lead our train with the Cab Car (both the Gallery Cab Car and Bombardier BiLevel Cab Car). In timetable mode for Peninsula Corridor, this means we can never use custom liveries on northbound services toward San Fransisco because the liveries are technically only for the Loco's leading.

    4) This creates problems when wanting to create custom services for either the F40PH-2CAT/Gallery Cab Car or the MP36PH-3C/Bombardier BiLevel Cab Car. Because of the changes the preservation crew made, we can't select either Cab Car to lead services in Scenario Planner mode. This creates a lot of problems, on Peninsula Corridor, the Locomotives always lead southbound, and the cab cars lead northbound. In addition, on Oakville Subdivision, the Locomotives always lead North/East, while the Cab Cars always lead South/West. This is not interchangeable, there is no swapping around of the Cab Cars or Locos IRL on either route. Essentially these changes mean custom scenarios using the Scenario Planner on either Peninsula Corridor or Oakville Subdivision are essentially impossible without fiction, there's no way to be realistic. We could be realistic in Train Sim World 2, but not in Train Sim World 3.

    To sum everything up, heres all the issues in point form:

    - Bombardier BiLevel Cab Car is NOT selectable in timetable mode for Peninsula Corridor.
    (I am aware that this is on the roadmap and is known by DTG, but it's been broken for 4 months with no updates, broken content should be considered a priority)

    - Custom Liveries using Livery Designer, or those subscribed to using Creators Club, are not available to be selected for the Caltrain Gallery Cab Car in Timetable Mode.

    - Custom Liveries using Livery Designer, or those subscribed to using Creators Club, are not available to be selected for the Caltrain Bombardier BiLevel Cab Car in Timetable Mode.

    - Can't select Caltrain Bombardier BiLevel Cab Car (to lead the train) in Scenario Planner (with or without OFF THE RAILS mode)

    - Can't select Caltrain Gallery Cab Car (to lead the train) in Scenario Planner (with or without OFF THE RAILS mode)

    - Can't select Custom Liveries using Livery Designer, or those subscribed to using Creators Club for F40PH-2CAT in Scenario Planner (with or without OFF THE RAILS mode)

    - Can't select Custom Liveries using Livery Designer, or those subscribed to using Creators Club for MP36PH-3C in Scenario Planner (with or without OFF THE RAILS mode)

    - Can't select Custom Liveries using Livery Designer, or those subscribed to using Creators Club for Bombardier BiLevel Cab Car in Scenario Planner (with or without OFF THE RAILS mode)

    - Can't select Custom Liveries using Livery Designer, or those subscribed to using Creators Club for Gallery Cab Car in Scenario Planner (with or without OFF THE RAILS mode)

    - Custom Liveries for the MP36PH-3C / Bombardier BiLevel Coach / Bombardier BiLevel Cab Car are lost in Train Sim World 3 when transferring from Train Sim World 2 using the profile transfer feature.


    DTG Matt TrainSim-Adam DTG JD : Are these issues known? Are they going to be fixed? Are only some going to be fixed?

    (Dovetail Freshdesk Support Tickets: #51682, #49077, #49075)
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2023
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,317
    Likes Received:
    8,693
    I would like to add that the livery designer also doesn't work at all on the 2 bay hopper that comes with the route. You can change the base color, but the support beams remain the same bright reddish color (as seen on the screenshot below as well). The biggest issue is though that you can't put any decals on the car, as it will not show up on it.
    [​IMG]

    The GP38 is also a bit bugged. You can mostly paint it, but there are areas where the original UP livery still shows and the UV mapping is all messed up, parts of the decals start showing up all over the body.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    (edited to add screenshots)
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2023
    • Like Like x 4
  3. TripleJ814

    TripleJ814 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2020
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    1,336
    Hoping this gets fixed.
    Peninsula Corridor, despite its age, always held up well in terms of quality throughout TSW 2’s era. Now in TSW 3 it’s just a broken mess.

    Changing the Perseveration Crew to the “Special Projects” team is a big mistake. Older content still matters and half of it is just a buggy mess.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2023
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,317
    Likes Received:
    8,693
    I actually have quite a fun with it now in TSW3 (have never played it since TSW2020, due to the preservation updates never coming to TSW2), despite these livery designer issues and the bug where you can't start a service with the Baby Bullet cab car.

    I do agree that it's one of the best made routes in term of rolling stock and timetable. And I do like the stations, they look nice, but sadly the overall scenery quality is quite poor on the route. Especially the areas with huge bland hills around them.
     
  5. BLRy

    BLRy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2020
    Messages:
    581
    Likes Received:
    431
    Well this is all very problematic. I was recently seriously considering purchasing this route after months of back & forth thinking so I could run the MP15 and GP38. I almost had my mind made up today to do so tonight -- but it sounds like there's too much that is not right about it to invest the money only to be disappointed and frustrated. These routes aren't cheap so I guess I'll keep my money in my pocket.

    Questions for the Devs...
    1 - Why is the F40PH loco not a separate item from the cars in LD? This seems really odd to me. It should be its own entity regardless of its permanent train assignment. As should the cars.
    2 - Why is the hopper car included if it is not fully customizable as has been shown by previous post?
    3 - Where are you at on fixing these issues?
    4 - Do I just give up on this as a worthy add-on?

    I'd honestly like to buy the route for its locomotive & freight aspects (particularly to add the MP15) but not if it is broken and neglected.
    Wild card > Maybe offer a discounted sale on the route until it is repaired and functioning properly? With a warning of course.
    Just as stores will sell damaged goods for less than retain at the customer's risk.


    Just thinking aloud.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2023
    • Like Like x 2
  6. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2022
    Messages:
    3,085
    Likes Received:
    4,705
    This issue means in my upcoming Oakville Scenario Pack, the GO services are the base Caltrain MP36PH-3C + Bi-Level Coaches, this needs fixing ASAP

    TrainSim-Adam, can your team look at this in more detail and hopefully get it fixed, thanks in advance ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,317
    Likes Received:
    8,693
    Well, these issues aside, it's still a pretty good route. With all rolling stock included, the timetable is realistic and there is good variety. Overall quality and sounds are nice.

    The only downside of the route is the scenery, which is a bit bland, especially the hills around the sides that are completely empty.

    So even with the current livery issues, I can recommend the route. Though I agree, these bugs nees fixing.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. TripleJ814

    TripleJ814 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2020
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    1,336
    Yep it's impossible. In reality for GO Trains on the lakeshore west line, the Locomotives always face North/East, and the Cab Cars always face South/West.

    In Train Sim World 2, realistic scenarios were completely possible, however now with Train Sim World 3, The only way to make a GO scenario is to make it completely unrealistic with the Locomotives facing both directions because the Cab Cars are no longer selectable.

    Not to mention we can't even select custom liveries in Scenario Planner, nor for the cab cars in whatever mode at all because the liveries are tied to the Locomotives.

    This really needs fixing. All the issues I listed;
    In addition, Peninsula Corridor and Oakville Subdivisions were supposed to receive updated timetables months ago as well. Last we heard about them was September, and now they've gone radio silent, and it's not on the roadmap either.

    DTG Matt TrainSim-Adam DTG JD any update on any of these issues?
     
  9. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2022
    Messages:
    3,085
    Likes Received:
    4,705
    I know how to get the cab cars in Scenario Planner, when you are choosing a train, where it says FILTERS, click on it then untick everything then the cab cars will appear ;)
     
  10. TripleJ814

    TripleJ814 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2020
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    1,336
    Wow, that's pretty dumb, kinda weird how they're not all unticked to begin with, maybe another fix for the list. Although i'm not really surprised either, the TSW 3 UI is amazing looking, they did a great job with it, except there are still many bugs with it that need ironing out, especially with filters.

    Might make another technical reports thread on that too...

    EDIT: Posted the thread: Train Sim World 3 - Issues With The New Train Sim World 3 Ui. | Dovetail Games Forums
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2023
    • Like Like x 1
  11. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2022
    Messages:
    3,085
    Likes Received:
    4,705
    Yeah, it's pretty annoying but that is a workaround for the foreseeable future :)
     
  12. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2021
    Messages:
    2,926
    Likes Received:
    11,570
    Thank you for the detailed list. The timetables issue is a UI issue, and I believe we mentioned it in the latest Roadmap live stream in the Q&A -
    .

    We're aware it's an issue, but is still being investigated - as UI can be quite a knotty thing to untangle. There is a workaround mentioned above (thanks, TrainGeek08!), but obviously it's not intended to be like that.

    The Livery Designer feedback is a complex one to answer, and I don't have a simple response for you at this point. I've checked with Adam, and had a similar response. At any rate, it's likely the timetables will be investigated before the livery concerns.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2022
    Messages:
    3,085
    Likes Received:
    4,705
    No problem, I found the workaround in another thread regarding cab cars not appearing in Scenario Planner :)
     
  14. TripleJ814

    TripleJ814 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2020
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    1,336
    Thanks for the reply JD.
    Yeah, I figured it was some UI issue, glad to see it's being looked into.

    I hope we get some resolution for the livery issues, I also hope Oakville Subdivision gets its promised passenger timetable in the future as well.

    Thanks TrainGeek08 for the workaround, I've never touched the Filter button before so didn't realize anything was ticked automatically
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2023
  15. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2022
    Messages:
    3,085
    Likes Received:
    4,705
    No problem, like I say, I found someone had the workaround and used it and it worked, if you need anything just tag me and ask anything you need help with :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. BLRy

    BLRy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2020
    Messages:
    581
    Likes Received:
    431
    Thanks!
     
  17. TripleJ814

    TripleJ814 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2020
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    1,336
    Anyways... I managed to fix the livery designer problems i mentioned in the original post;
    Steps for DTG to fix these issues:
    - The formation named FRM_SFJ_CT_BabyBullet at /SFJ_CT_MP36PH-3C/Content/Data needs to have the "Is Available For User Scenarios" checkbox checked.
    - Port the file (from TSW 2) named RF_SFJ_CT_MP36PH-3C at /SFJ_CT_MP36PH-3C/Content/Data/LiveryEditor and place it at the same location in TSW 3.
    - Port the file (from TSW 2) named RF_SFJ_BiLevelCoach_Cab at /SFJ_CT_BiLevelCoach/Content/Data/LiveryEditor and place it at the same location in TSW 3.
    - Port the file (from TSW 2) named RF_SFJ_BiLevelCoach_Trailer at /SFJ_CT_BiLevelCoach/Content/Data/LiveryEditor and place it at the same location in TSW 3.
    - New TSW3-style thumbnails would need to be done for these. [​IMG]

    and the result is what we had before in TSW2, where the MP36, Coach, and CabCar were separate in LD, which was so much better.
    Screenshot_6.png Screenshot_5.png Screenshot_2.png

    It took me about 20 minutes to redownload TSW 2, extract the Baby Bullet pak, import the files into UE4, compile the ReskinnableRailVehicleDefinition files, cook, compile the mod pak, and test it in TSW3.

    Not complex at all, as about 90% of the work is done in TSW 2, the files I listed above just need to be copied and pasted into TSW3, and then new thumbnails for the UI would have to be done, and then your QA etc. From my own testing with the mod I made, there are no additional issues with this that weren't already there in TSW2, and it fixes issues that are currently present in TSW3 such as;

    - Only being able to use Custom Liveries with 6car formations
    - Only being able to use Custom Liveries with the MP36 loco leading, not the cabcar leading.
    - Liveries for the MP36PH, Bombardier BiLevels made in TSW2 not being able to be used in TSW3, even when using dovetails TSW2 to TSW3 profile transfer feature
    - Not being able to use Livery Designer creations for the baby bullet in Scenario Planner.

    Hopefully, while the team looks at the BiLevel CabCar not being selectable in timetable mode, the team can also do this as well, as it's not a hard task. Hoping this feedback can be passed along DTG JD or DTG Matt?

    For anyone on PC, if you want the fix I made here it is: Baby Bullet TSW3 Fixes - Cab Car Selectable In Timetable - Scenario Planner Fixes - Livery Designer Improvements - Train Sim Community

    Thanks :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2023
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page