Discussion in 'Train Sim World Discussion' started by nwp1, Apr 20, 2021.
Looking forward to that
I recently created an off the rails scenario driving the 66 on Ruhr-Sieg Nord. The adverse signals (although without AWS) and hills made for an interesting drive. Wouldn't mind seeing the BR266 in the game to cruise along more German routes. :P
Plenty of bends coming out of Truro and heading to Penzance
Plus there will be a steady incline from Penzance to St Erth
First Great Western isn't defunct, it simply changed its brand name to Great Western Railway.
Yeah but the name and brand is, and First revoked DTG's rights to use the FGW brand in new stuff, hence GWE is all green.
That's why I'd bet on this route being set in the 90s.
Certainly everything is easier from a licensing perspective if they set things before privatisation
Which may apply to Rivet or not. I'm betting it does, but we shouldn't forget Rivet IS a different entity
However, it's my understanding that brand licensing is one of the things which DTG handle, not the third-party developers (for example, it's difficult to imagine TSG, a two-man operation, having the time to muck with all the legal stuff).
It's my understanding that AP is a one man op, and they manage... Sometimes it's EASIER being small because the big boys think there's less impact if it goes wrong
My understanding is it's DTG, as the publisher, who have to have the license, whether the 3rd party has the license or not is irrelevant.
I'm not sure, either way people do tend to talk as if everything is up to DTG, when it's not always the case
I feel this time period is marginally less interesting than the current ones. Right now we have Castle HSTs, Sprinters, 57s, and the various Hitachi devices. In the 90s once the 1st gen dmus had gone it was Sprinters and HSTs and a 47 once a day. Plus the long rock 08 if you count that in both periods.
Would have personally preferred mid 80s. Second choice would have been 70s, 3rd 60s, 4th 2000s and last the 90s for this line as it has the least variety of all. But I will follow its updates and see if its a day one, sale or I would rather not purchase choice when it comes to it...
When the route was 1st listed, I was dubious of the actual choice : Penzance to Truro and the St Ives branch, just based on playability. How many times can you drive from Penzance to Truro or St Erth to St Ives before the novelty wears off. The saving grace would have been a variety of locomotive/train types available to drive or be seen on the route.
Now, quite possibly, there will be 2 types of train : HST and Class 150 (or the Class 101, common on the St Ives branch in 1995), and probably no freight. Making wonderful scenery isn't going to be enough on its own.
The playablity/ variety of services may be minimal and repetitive.
From probably being a day one purchase, now, I'm not sure.
I feel like that has been the same with all of Rivets routes. I bought IOW recently, but after completing all scenarios and a few services I just got bored of it, and the same with Arosa. Rivet's routes just tend to be A to B and maybe some shunting manoeuvres with nothing else. I feel like this will be the same. Stoppers to St Ives and Truro, which really isn't that far and perhaps a few fast services between Penzance and Truro.
+1 re Time period and low fruit comments 60s-90s Would have been better but harder to do.
Maybe its for the best that this isnt going to be my fave era as Rivet dont seem to be getting much love for their offerings to date...I dont want to be casting any shade as I dont own any Rivet products myself, but all I see is overwhelmingly underwhelmed esp re longevity :/
Fingers crossed Rivet will find their stride on this one but other people are going to have to make that call as it is a flat no from me as I just cant see any longevity re. play value in this either.
I'm with you on this. I have felt all along that the 1980s would be the most interesting period with a fascinating mix of motive power and freight still running west of Truro - a refurbished class 50 in large logo blue would be wonderful! However, I'm guessing the 1990s is the easiest timescale for the developers because of the limited motive power operating west of Truro route by then. They can get away with HSTs on the Paddington-Penzance expresses and 150s or 155s on the locals and regionals. By 1991, the only freight left in the area was the Mondays only Ince-Truro fertiliser train which arrived at Truro in the early hours and returned to Ince from Truro in the morning. With the route only starting at Truro, you're not going to drive that one very far! The only other non-passenger workings would be the occasional engineers' working (ballast etc.).
I believe CG is correct. Trademark infringement happens, if it happens, when an article is introduced in trade; and it is DTG, not Rivet or TSG, who are placing the route in trade. Until the route is published there is no need for a license.
To that add the rather underwhelming services that came with the 204. Great loco, repetitive gameplay.
Now that DTG have stated that there was a error in the code for the era of the route, it’s slightly improved my view on the route overall.
Depending on how they go about it, I hope we see the FGW era represented with potential use of the FGW HST from GWE that was never properly released. Also would like to see a 150/2 for the local services.
I however still remain the view that Rivet have a tonne of work to do, especially with the scenery, especially after the disaster with Arosa. For me that will be the nail in the coffin sadly, as ultimately working for GWR, I want the route to be a success and feel/look immersive. I however have a feeling it may fall expectations (no surprise).
I see a lot of people discussing the time period leading to less varied stock, that’s only true in a realistic sense, Rivet weren’t exactly going to make multiple locos, units and liveries along with a timetable able to run multiple layers, even if they did, we would get a route full of ‘reused’ trains, which is the current hot topic around here, now with the new confirmed era, we are basically guaranteed to see something along the lines of a 153, which will make a very welcomed addition to TSW.
People are really giving Rivet too much to achieve with their hopes, it’s going to be only their third route in TSW, and the chosen time period will both give Rivet a more realistic work load, and the opportunity to provide us with a brand new class of train to TSW, as a result, we will get a fresh train to play with and a realistic timetable, or at least more so than if it was in the 50’s-91 era.
I agree in a way, however they could have modelled the route in the 1970's and only needed to model one train assuming they are able to use existing DTG stock.
They have the class 52, they have the class 08 shunter so the new train could be something like a class 118 or class 120 DMU, although really some more variety of mark 1 and 2 coaching stock would have been desirable too.
Obviously pre 70's would be a lot harder to do and the 80's would really require a class 50.
If they can't use existing DTG stock then they are going to have to make a new HST and a Sprinter of some kind unless it only releases with a "local train" which I can't see going down well.
If they are reusing the HST then this will suggest the route will be at the end of the designated time period as earlier than that would require the Valenta engined ones to be modelled and I believe other changes were made in the cab and with the headlights. The carriage interiors would also need to be remodelled.
I will certainly be interesting to see what is announced in the coming weeks/months.
We *should* see a borrowed 43 and a sprinter of a 15x
We *could* see a red 47 for the mail train?
We *could* see a 47 sleeper Night Rivera train
We wont see the motorail train as that stopped in Snozzle.
We *will* have glorious views of sunny Cornwall as we trundle backwards and forwards
Actually that does bring up an interesting point I was considering earlier and could explain to some extent why the focus is on more recent rolling stock etc. AFAIK TSW(2) is the first sim where you can fully interact with the train as a passenger which in turn requires more than just a lo-res bitmap or two of the interior to make the environment. Some of those trains simply aren't there anymore - our much requested Class 120 Cross Country DMU for one, some of the older electric stock when referring to London - Brighton for example. Not impossible and I would like to think DTG or their rolling stock authors could rise to the challenge of doing older stock. However the practical reality seems to be, Covid aside, unless it can be photographed and researched in the flesh - whether on the network or a heritage railway - ends up in the too difficult basket.
I am hoping it just doesn't turn into 'what's out there now sim world' I think with ts20** and its huge range of content we have had it good as well as MSTS the editors and amount of content was immense. I still look at that North Wales Pack for MSTS as being the ultimate in simulation. Right trains, timetables and variety with most branches. Same with Mid East plus on a more fictional theme. Ay valley for TS is great as a huge fictional route. In TSW we are locked out of the ability to produce niche content. This is a major setback for those of us interested in older eras or more obscure railways in the International scene.
I am thinking more of my money will go on model trains for the above reasons.
Yes that is true, the interiors do require a lot of attention as you say compared to previous simulators.
There is a surviving class 120 TSLRB on the GCR, I don't know if the interior is in original condition? There are plenty of preserved DMU's though so it is only a barrier if they want it to be, Covid aside obviously. They can't use any excuses for not accurately modelling mark 1 interiors as they are the staple carriages for preserved railways.
The Railcar Association website does have a lot of useful photos so it wouldn't be impossible, it just depends on the will to do so.
I have some doubts about DTG's research anyway, when NTP came out the class 101 interior was of the Regional Railways seat trim, i.e. post 1991, it has been put right now. But, how did that get through, they wouldn't make that mistake on an Electrostar? The fact they only modelled a two car set for NTP yet brought out the trailer car for TVL even though by 1989 Heaton depots surviving first generation DMU's were all running as two car sets, just shows that they don't seem to research more historic periods as accurately as more modern ones. Why that is I don't know, maybe they just cant be bothered. There is bucket loads of research material out there, online, in DVD's, in books and plenty of knowledge on these very forums so they don't have lack of material as an excuse.
After my initial excitement about a TSW route set in Cornwall, I'm now becoming more despondent. Even though I felt that Truro-Penzance was too limited operationally, it could still be interesting if set in the right time period. I'll reserve judgement until we see what stock is provided but if it is as limited as suspected, it will for me sum up one of the fundamental issues about TSW. The development time for new rolling stock must be considerably longer than for TS20xx and realistically we will not get the breadth of stock we get in TS, certainly not for some considerable time. If we want realistic operations with correct rolling stock for a given period, inevitably we will have to keep returning to TS, certainly for routes set in the UK. Visually, TSW Is superb and I never cease to be amazed by the quality of the graphics, but for variety of the rolling stock in parts of the country I want to drive in (including Cornwall!), I will have to go to TS20xx.
That is pretty much what I am doing, at least the scenario editor is far more accomplished and you can set up your own consists.
Yeah that’s definitely more of a DTG workload than a Rivet agenda, the confirmed time period gives me more confidence in a more accurate timetable.
So are we all agreed, HST for main line & class 15x for st Ives? I assume these are peoples minimum expectations? Dare I say ... pacer for an outside bet?
I doubt rivet will do any work on the current HST in order to make it suitable for the time period, unless the FGW livery can be used officially.
Id set expectations to a 15x and nothing else.
Would 47s be appropriate for this route in this period?
I'd say 57s but I doubt Rivet would go to the effort of upgrading the existing 47.
Not 1990-2010. They were sent up here to replace the 101s at Heaton in '89.
I'd imagine so with Intercity Swallow Mk2s, for CrossCountry services if set before privatisation: https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-tTjPpNM/0/O/i-tTjPpNM.jpg
47s in a intercity Livery?
I would probably buy it with only 15x trains but it will be disappointing to say the least if at least one other class of train isn’t included, even as AI.
However, as has been previously stated, these decisions have already been made.
Agreed on 47 swallow logo, would be highly suitable
I agree maybe a lazy hst in gwr green copy and paste with a 15x put on by rivet as a courtesy
If the time period is 1990s, which does fall within Era 6, then they can use BR livery on the HST with no problems. In fact, an early '90s date would explain the mistaken "5"
Highly unlikely: the time period ends in 2010 and GWR green didn't show up until 2016.
They would have to work on the model though. Change the headlights, change the coach interiors and most importantly add new sounds.
They’d need a lot more than a livery change to make the current HST appropriate for the 90’s.
I wonder if St Michaels Mount will be modelled given it should be viewable from Penzance, albeit small until you turn inland and head past Marazion Marsh where we'll be at it's closest point.
The interiors are quite different. Fairly certain the original blue second and orange first class seat moquette had gone by then, second or standard was reupholstered with a red moquette on the original seat frames in standard, can’t remember the colour in first. So essentially a complete internal refit.
If it isnt modelled then there is some serious errors on the part of Rivet!
This was taken from the footbridge, just before the Longrock depot.
Was a light pink/grey iirc the 1st Class seat colour. Last coach with orange seats I saw was the Fort William seated section in the 1990s which had seen better days.
That sounds about right! Let’s just hope whoever is doing the stock for Rivet had the reference material.
IIRC those original turquoise blue and orange in first were not that comfortable, compared to the earlier winged style Mark 2 seats. Though none as comfortable as a decent Mark One armchair!
Yes I remeber the red. Fingers crossed rivet. Dont mess this up!
I don't think I've ever seen people so pessimistic about a route than this. Can we at least try to be a bit more positive? I'm somewhat guilty of this pessimism myself, but I'm trying to look at all the good things about this route. Regardless of the stock and time period, shouldn't we be happy we're getting a scenic route in a part of the UK TSW hasn't explored yet?
It's a wonder DTG and Rivet continue to make products when we're often so ungrateful, even before screenshots have been shown. People seem to have made their mind up when all we know for certain is the route itself and a vague and quite broad time period. It's childish to dismiss a route so quickly.
I am somewhat excited, I was more excited when I initially thought the route was going to be set pre-1990 but I am still looking forward to it as long as the stock makes sense and will almost certainly purchase it, unless something is glaringly amiss.
My main disappointment, which only surfaced recently is that it is frustrating that it starts at Truro which almost doesn't make much sense in terms of operations. I have the TS1 version of the Cornish Mainline starting from Plymouth, which is a decent looking route so maybe I am comparing it with that. However, I know that that would be a very long route for TSW.
I think if the Falmouth branch was included it would make it a bit more interesting as it would make it a mini network.
In case anybody is wondering, class 101 DMUs were still about in the early 1990s. This is a 'snapshot' taken off one of the videos I shot at Lostwithiel in early 1992, set 824 on the 1535 Penzance-Plymouth. I'm assuming this was a mixed set with a different trailer to the driving cars as the windows don't line up. (Sorry about the quality of the image but it was taken off a Hi8 video then converted to a Windows format.)
It’s just the forums, alot of the time the line between what happens IRL and what can be done in game gets blurry for people here, but the hopes for this route are far too optimistic, and people are going to be let down, it’s Rivet Games, they’re hardly about to release a route full of layers with every loco that’s ever ran on the line in a given decade.
Not that any of it matters because it’ll still sell well regardless of the complaints, just like every DLC does, personally I’m just hoping for a 15x on a route that looks as good as the rest of them.
Too many people seem to enjoy coming here for the sole purpose of either bashing DTG or wanting to be the smartest person in the thread, so it’s not worth the effort trying to discuss a route on these forums.
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