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Penzance Truro And St. Ives.

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by nwp1, Apr 20, 2021.

  1. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Ok. If we're going by if all rolling stock was built in the last 20 years;
    Modern UK routes:
    - Southeastern High Speed (set 2020)

    Period UK routes:
    - Northern Trans Pennine (set 1983)
    - Tees Valley Line (set 1989)
    - West Cornwall Locals (set 1950s-1990s)
    - Great Western (set 2016-ish)
    - Cathcart Circle (set 2011+, probably 2019)
    - East Coastway (set 2018)
    - Isle of Wight (set 2011+)
    - Bakerloo (set 2020)
    - West Somerset (set 2017-ish)

    I'd say all but 3 are actually period routes. If we go by if any rolling stock was built in the last 20 years, then move East Coastway up to modern routes. The EWS/DBCUK examples of the Class 66 were built 1998-2000, therefore not qualifying the respective DLCs.
    My point was if you say "modern route" I take that as a route set in the last 15-20 years, hence the original list I still stand by.
     
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  2. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Have to be pre-2015, since it won't be Abellio
     
  3. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    I think the point is that even though there are technically more modern routes, in a sense there aren't.

    Isle of Wight seems to be set a few decades ago judging by the livery. And the Bakerloo would be no different if it was set in the eighties, at least in terms of gameplay. The same goes for WSR railway, which uses old rolling stock. I wouldn't consider it a modern route, no matter when it's set.

    That leaves only three routes that are truly modern, one of which isn't even present day (GWE), and the other two are pretty similar.
     
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  4. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    It's also not First - I imagine they'd have said otherwise. I have a very strong feeling that it'll be Scotrail Saltire, but with no markings on the doors.
     
  5. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Go to WSR today. Do you see a class 800, a 195, a 66? No you see 50 year old diesels and even older steam engines. It in no way can be described as a historic route or a period route as it represents what it is now, I don't go to drive on there, imagining I have just signed on at Minehead station in 1960, I imagine it is some joke diesel gala where lots of engines haven't turned up and the timetable has been cut in half! The Bakerloo is using the stock is uses today and is set today or the very recent past. The IOW apparently is modelled on todays line although I grant you it probably hasn't changed in the last 30 years.

    Look at it another way, as a enthusiast of older pre-privatisation period routes, how many 80's period routes do I have to use, two. How many 90's period routes, none. How many routes set on the 00's, none. How many post 2010 routes, seven (including the IOW which I agree is a bit of odd case)!

    If this Cornish route came with a Sprinter in GWR livery with the HST, would I buy it and enjoy it, yes I would. Would I consider it a historic route no, as the liveries are current or within the last ten years or so.
     
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  6. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It is odd, because we either have to assume it's set in the NSE days, or just accept an anachronism. The rolling stock is therefore 1990s: does the route match its late-BR configuration, or is it different today?
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
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  7. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    I think it's much like Liverpool - Manchester in TS1 - that's the route as was in 2014/15 yet uses regional railways liveried class 158s, they then made a RR 101 and RR 142 for it. I think they're trying to sell it as a 90s route but it has the signs in Northern Rail's corporate colours.
     
  8. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    I think when people say “modern” that doesn’t necessarily mean class 800s, class 700s, and Aventras everywhere. In the UK, one could argue that anything set post-privatization is modern depending the route of course. Some routes have been running the same stock for the last 30 years and you couldn’t tell the difference. I think many just want more routes like GWE, ECW, and SEHS, but maybe just a bit North out of London, which is why many are looking forward to Cathcart Circle.
     
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  9. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    You make a lot of good points, it's just that to me a lot of the modern routes like Bakerloo and IOW don't feel modern. There isn't anything there that makes me go "this is clearly a route set in the 2010s".

    I think we have different definitions of modern. Hopefully in the future we'll have enough routes to satisfy both crowds. I'm not too bothered about this being a period route as Cathcart Circle is around the corner.
     
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  10. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I agree I think we need a balance of eras and styles of trains. It would be good to think in the future you can drive a Victorian steam engine, 1950's diesel or the latest in EMU technology.

    I hope we see some current routes or near to current, with modern/recent trains, I do realise that if you like the most modern stock you really only have the SEHS and I suppose the 395 is getting on a bit! It is a shame GWE didn't come a little later with a class 800 and 387 rather than the very narrow time period it is set, I thought that was an odd decision at the time.
     
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  11. Warspite

    Warspite Active Member

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    I’ve just dug out my 1976/77 Passenger Timetable and the Paddington-Penzance trains stopped at either all stations between Truro and Penzance or just some:

    0730 ex Paddington: Truro (dep. 1309), Redruth, Camborne Hayle, St Erth, Penzance (arr. 1354)
    0930 ex Paddington: Truro (dep. 1439), Redruth, St Erth, Penzance (arr. 1520)
    1130 ex Paddington: Truro (dep. 1630), Redruth, Camborne, St Erth, Penzance (arr. 1711)*
    1330 ex Paddington: Truro (dep. 1836), Redruth, Camborne, St Erth, Penzance (arr. 1919)
    1530 ex Paddington: Truro (dep. 2053), Redruth, St Erth, Penzance (arr. 2133)
    1730 ex Paddington: Truro (dep. 2245), Redruth, St Erth, Penzance (arr. 2325)**

    * Cornish Riviera Limited
    ** Golden Hind

    So journey times between Truro and Penzance varied between 40 and 45 minutes depending on stops.

    I’ve only shown the Paddington trains on Mondays to Fridays. There were also two inter-regional trains to Penzance (Liverpool Lime Street and Leeds) and these both stopped at Redruth, Camborne Hayle, and St Erth between Truro and Penzance. In this time period, they were generally hauled by class 45/46s. There were of course additional trains on summer Saturdays including Manchester Piccadilly (x2), Worcester Shrub Hill, Liverpool Lime Street (x2), Cardiff Central, Wolverhampton and Derby. If they feature all these services, it should be an interesting timetable! That's assuming, it is set in this period, of course.
     
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  12. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    I can't speak for Isle of Wight as I don't have it, but that's where the scenery comes in, on Bakerloo there's modern Underground branding everywhere, the old brown and yellow platform signage at Baker Street seen in the promo image was recently replaced with white and brown signage as reflected in the route, there's also the current Wembley Stadium, built 2002 and I believe you can see the Shard. I think a mix of both, for me, do sell the idea bakerloo is contemporary.
     
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  13. ralphy_porter2000

    ralphy_porter2000 Active Member

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    Bakerloo is deffo contemporary. I studied in guitar making in the 90s and it was very dirty and less well lit on the tube in back then. Yes there are some art deco features at some older-looking stations on the overground area, but some look very modern too.
    I truly cant see anything but contemporary but thats just IMHO.
     
  14. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The environment of the BKL has a modern feeling to it but the gameplay is effectively driving a clunky small tube train from the 70s
     
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  15. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I think that there may be something of an impulse at DTG to capture a moment before it's gone. GWE is set in what was not only the "present" during development, but also, significantly, the last hurrah of the HST (a true icon of British railroading) in its full glory as a mainline express, before it was bundled off to regional routes. MSB captured the Spessart Ramp when it was still a thing, right before it and Heigenbrucken were bypassed in 2017. IOW similarly: the '38 Stock was about to be withdrawn, a sort of "last chance to see" affair. And on the Arosa, the Ge 4/4s are still around, but being replaced as we speak by modern (and, to some, boring) EMUs.

    Incidentally, WRT to the 800/801/802: I believe I read somewhere that Hitachi have a trademark on the train's very shape, so DTG would need a license from them as well as the operator to do one.
     
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  16. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The key word there is driving. How much fun would a modern Victoria Line '09 Stock with ATO be?
     
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  17. Jpantera

    Jpantera Active Member

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    They would also need access to one during a pandemic if they wish to develop one right at the moment, Sam I think explained it very well during a stream about the complexities of licensing, Its not just a case of choosing a train and developing it with all that entails in the current set up they have to have the licensing in place. Many hoops to jump through despite the 'I want this and I want that NOW' shouts every time somebody thinks of a loco or unit they wish to see.
     
  18. Geth_2234

    Geth_2234 Active Member

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    I dont know just going by what DTG have said previously in a stream, I would love some more GWR content to.
     
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  19. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Cathcart Circle is apparently going to be in First Scotrail markings, so derived from the same license.
     
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  20. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Not the same license - it'll be a separate one. First ScotRail and Great Western Railway are different companies.
     
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  21. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Both are owned by First Group.
     
  22. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Yes but still different companies - Grand Central and CrossCountry are both owned by Arriva, they're seperate licenses. Just because 2 companies have the same parent does not necessarily mean they'll be the same.
     
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  23. Ben_Broomfield

    Ben_Broomfield Active Member

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    Pretty sure First Group dropped out with the franchise of ScotRail in like 2015, hence why it was First ScotRail. Now the franchise is owned by Abelio I’m pretty sure? Unless I’m going mad lol.

    Edit: read the thread wrong lol
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
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  24. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    How that works is very much a question of corporate structure. Some conglomerates leave trademark and licensing issues to the subsidiaries, some like central control over the whole affair (DB Fernverkehr, DB Regio, DB Schenker, Railion and DB Cargo are separate companies, but DB AG handles the licensing for all of them).
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  25. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Correct. But Sam has said CC will definitely not be Abellio.

    (At a guess, I would conjecture that DTG have approached Abellio in the past for a license for their German S-Bahn operations, which run on some of the modeled routes, and been turned down)
     
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  26. pablomikel.izaguirre.m

    pablomikel.izaguirre.m Well-Known Member

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    I have made a thread about the lack of modern stock in TSW2 if you want to read it, it's called "new vs old UK content", where I explain why I think that it's time for a break on old stuff.

    Also, I think I'm the only one that did feel sad about the 332s. These trains had been in service for only 20 years, and instead of being slighlty refurbished and used to replace the aging class 321s on the GEML, they were taken to the scrapyard, what a disgraceful waste of money.
     
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  27. pablomikel.izaguirre.m

    pablomikel.izaguirre.m Well-Known Member

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    who is this commercial developer?
     
  28. pablomikel.izaguirre.m

    pablomikel.izaguirre.m Well-Known Member

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    Agree, London - Peterborough would be nice, although it could be considered a mega-route compared to the length of other british routes already in TSW (86 miles approx.)
     
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  29. pablomikel.izaguirre.m

    pablomikel.izaguirre.m Well-Known Member

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    Of course there are routes in the UK where very old trains still run (IOW has newer stock now btw, class 484), James's and my point is that DTG seems to have a strong bias towards these routes, and we just ask that a route with modern stock is considered for production.
     
  30. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    Most likely Armstrong Powerhouse
     
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  31. OsamaBinLiftin

    OsamaBinLiftin Member

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    Here's a glimpse at how I would want it to look: penzance.png
     
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  32. Jpantera

    Jpantera Active Member

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    Thats a 100% day one purchase if it looks like that. I know a few who would purchase TSW2 just for it too.
     
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  33. Jpantera

    Jpantera Active Member

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    If you re-read my post note the commercial aspect of this and the enthusiast comments. I am not making those statements up. I am not saying you need to like older stuff but to understand why DTG may release such content.
     
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  34. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    Its a first day purchase anyway :) Seeing as I, along with others have been banging this drum for over 12 months :)
     
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  35. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    The DMU will be the deciding factor for me if it is to be a first day purchase, or any day purchase. It should be a first day purchase for me.
     
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  36. Coppo

    Coppo Well-Known Member

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    If we are going to St. Ives I want it to include a man with 7 wives...
     
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  37. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    That man must be able to keep his 7 wives a secret then so he doesn´t get a divorce lol
     
  38. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    A gwr class 165 with some branch lines would be nice or even the 800s
     
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  39. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    To me with coded manual on the 09 stock, it would be fun. The 2009 tube stock has coded manual meaning the train can be driven manually with ato off and reach the track speed (the speed limit) on the line. Even if I had ato on, I would still enjoy it
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
  40. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Again, I really wouldn't want this to be the route 800s debut on honestly. It seems like a waste of potential. They're much better suited to 125mph mainlines.
     
  41. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Yeh so some sort of a modern electrified gwe route to get the 800s between London Paddington and Reading. That would be cool if it was in the game
     
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  42. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    I'd still love it if DTG did an upgraded version of GWE with 800s and 387s. If they put up the wires on the line then it'd be good to go. Although they probably wouldn't want to go through the licensing stuff with Hitachi for that.

    Anyway, we're getting off topic.
     
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  43. Geth_2234

    Geth_2234 Active Member

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    I am really looking forward to Cathcart circle being the first ever Scottish route and I'd still say that was modern considering it is based post privatisation and I do agree modern has quite a wide scope and I would consider anything post privatisation still semi modern, Don't get me wrong though I love the British rail stuff but i like the modern stuff to especially GWR and it would be nice to have more of a mix. A route like the Cornwall local I personally think it should be based in a modern GWR era with the class 150 and 800 because you have the best of both worlds the old 150s and the new 800s which is still very true to life and the route itself is pretty much unchanged over the years because it hasn't been electrified.
     
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  44. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    What on Earth have most of these posts got to do with Penzance - Truro and St Ives?
     
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  45. elarthur

    elarthur Well-Known Member

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    This means that a few of the potential new classes could be...

    Class 35
    Class 42
    Class 43/253 HST (Valenta)
    Class 117/121/118/122 DMU
    Class 142/143 Pacer
    Class 150/1 or /2 Sprinter

    This is provided that they don't go the 'safe' route by just reusing what we already have which would be a serious missed opportunity. These are the most likely candidates based on the 1951-1990 period.
     
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  46. Jpantera

    Jpantera Active Member

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    Class 50 could be possible to add to what you have listed above. The thing is the 47 is an essential loco for this route anytime 60s onwards right up until early 2000s. Despite calls for no reuse if it wasn't used it would be very odd. 47s were everywhere for decades. Class 101s got about too. Maybe they could re skin the 47 into a different colour scheme depending on the era.
     
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  47. Warspite

    Warspite Active Member

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    Although I would love to see one in TSW2, class 35s were rare in Cornwall and only made very occasional forays this far west. The introduction of class 50s to the WR main lines overlapped the demise of the class 52s - they were effectively their replacements. The class 50s, in both original and refurbished form, also worked with HSTs and both first and second generation DMUs.
     
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  48. Warspite

    Warspite Active Member

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    Class 50s should certainly be added to that list as would class 45/46s (on inter-regional services) and class 47s on just about anything. However, the class 45s and class 47s would have to have alpha-numeric headcodes and no high intensity headlights if they are working alongside the diesel hydraulics.
     
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  49. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    For me it would be better if it was set at the same time GWE was set, could re use the hst, whilst making the 150
     
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  50. TheRealJuralumin

    TheRealJuralumin New Member

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    I would honestly be disappointed if it didn't have the HST. I was born in Truro, and lived there until I was 7 (lived here in Australia since then) and I used to love taking the HST from Truro to Penzance as a kid, we used to go train spotting at Truro station and seeing an HST come through was always a highlight for me. We already have a Class 43 HST in TSW2, so I don't see why it can't be used on the route, unless it's confirmed it's not going to be set in present day? It might actually be a good excuse to use the older First Great Western livery that's still in TSW2 (just locked away), like have the route be set around 2009/10 or something.
     
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