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People Aren't Sticking With Tsw2

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by heyitspopcorn, Oct 11, 2020.

  1. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    We know from SteamDB that there was an initial spike of around 3,000 PC players on Day 1 when TSW2 launched, which rapidly dropped off and has since settled at around 500-600 players per day, with around 300 concurrent players on average. These numbers are a little lower than TSW2020's numbers: up until June, roughly when TSW2 was announced, TSW2020 was frequently averaging around 700 players per day, with spikes of up to 1,000. There are still 100-200 players per day in TSW2020.

    If we look at the achievements, we see that people aren't really sticking with TSW2. On Steam, 7% of players haven't finished a single tutorial. 29% of Steam players haven't reached Level 5. 36% haven't completed a scenario and over 50% of Steam players haven't finished a single service. Only 25% of players have completed 5 scenarios, and only 19% complete 10 route 'tasks.' There aren't DLC specific, these are achievements for the base game, and they are awarded (if working correctly) for activities or XP completed anywhere in the game.

    Achievement completion on consoles is substantially better. Compared to 93% of Steam players completing a tutorial, 100% of Xbox gamers appear to have completed it and 97% of PS gamers. 64% on Steam have completed a scenario; 70% have on PS4 and 71.5% have on Xbox. And, unlike on Steam, where only 48% of players have completed a timetable service, on both PS4 and Xbox, 60% of players have done so. More console players have reached Level 5, too: 80% on both consoles.

    Now, of course, the issue with percentages is that they are relative, but not definite. But regardless of the specific numbers, it does suggest an issue with TSW2: people aren't sticking around. They're playing the game, maybe jumping into a tutorial, but that's about it. When almost 30% of players across all platforms have not completed a scenario, and even fewer have completed a service in timetable mode, that really should be a cause for some concern.

    Why are players giving up on TSW so quickly?
    Are bugs preventing them from completing a scenario, and they're so put off that they decide not to try again? Is a perceived disparity in quality between routes (e.g., some tutorials and scenarios having voiceovers while others just have text blocks, or tutorials/scenarios not progressing properly when the player completes instructions for things like releasing brakes) turning potential players away?

    One thing I will say, though, is that I think the gimmicky game aspect -- plugging fence holes, sticking 'no trespass' signs up, or putting up route maps -- are possibly not worth the extra development time. The Day Duties achievement/trophy -- completing 10 route tasks -- has only been completed by 18.9% of Steam players, 26.6% of PS4 gamers, and 28.08% of Xbox gamers. With the exception of achievement hunters, the majority of players are apparently not overly interested in completing these tasks--especially when you look at the number of people who have unlocked the achievement Dedication Station (25 route tasks completed): 4.3% on Steam, 6.8% on PS4, and 6.84% on Xbox. Is it really worth the developer time to do those, even if it's only a few hours?
     
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  2. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    It's a difficult hobby. You have to do your homework. TSW is a platform for communing with trains. Treating it like a game probably leads to disappointment. Numerous disadvantages help with this. For me? Almost perfect. A bigger piece than almost maybe :D
     
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  3. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    This may not be true if console players are included. We PC players keep making that mistake.
     
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  4. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    While the game may have bugs or quality issues, I don't think the answer necessarily has to be TSW's fault.

    It's not their cup of tea. They didn't care for it. It didn't interest them. They'd rather play something else.

    I think TSW is one of those games you like (despite any issues), or dislike (regardless of the issues).

    I disagree. One of the things I like doing is walking the route, getting to know it, discovering things about it I wouldn't have speeding along in a loco.

    While achievements might not appeal to most train sim hobbyists, there are a remarkable number of little touches along the route that I'd have never appreciated or seen had I not been given a reason to explore it.
     
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  5. maz_62

    maz_62 Member

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    I’m with you. I spent an interesting hour wandering around the docks areas in Main-Spessart this afternoon.. Looking forward to getting the 204..
     
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  6. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    Driving trains is obviously the main reason why I play TSW 2. But, exploring the route to find the collectables is fun too. When driving past things at X speed, you don’t really appreciate the huge amount of effort that has gone into creating the route.

    I’ve just got all the collectables again on Main-Spessart Bahn. That route is absolutely gorgeous, with so much detail you’d never see unless you explored. Yes, it’s a train game and the trains are the most important part, but soaking in the environment is worthwhile.

    I’m pleased to say I’m just one trophy from getting Platinum on PS4, with only the 10,000 mile one still to go. I’m currently at around 3,500 miles.

    This will likely be my first Platinum trophy too.

    The bugs are disappointing, but on the whole, TSW 2 is my favourite game.
     
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  7. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I'll have to disagree with you/prove you wrong there. I see plenty of people complaining that they stopped playing TSW2 because there are just too many issues, even though they would love the game if it worked properly.
    I also bought it, especially because I looked forward to some of the preserved collection, but seeing the state they are in, my will to play it is simply gone in the past weeks - even though I loved TSW.

    Currently I'm waiting for the release of the Isle of Wight route, hopefully that will be good and I will be playing TSW2 again. I'm also waiting for patches so my favorite routes are actualy playable like they're supposed to be.

    The low player numbers, in my opinion, are entirely the fault of the current state TSW2 is in. Why pay 30 euro for a game (or a DLC) when it's full of issues, when you can buy other games that actually work for cheaper?
     
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  8. ajwilson1889

    ajwilson1889 Member

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    I'm in a minority then, I didnt play TSW, but reached level 80 on TSW2, purchased fair amount of DLC too. I play Xbox for trophies but have this on PC so I have no interest in fixing fences, probably only fixed the stuff I walked past by accident. I love the German railways. I was a Peak Basher in the eighties so I cant wat for Trans Pennine.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
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  9. MatsH

    MatsH New Member

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    I can only speak for myself, but I haven't given up on TSW2 in any way. What I have done though is taken a break from it until the soundissues have been fixed.

    I mostly play on the german routes, and at launch both Schnellfahrstrecke and Haubtstrecke felt very empty, with not much traffic at all. When the preserved collection started to arrive more trains were added to these routes, but then the soundproblems started to appear instead. From time to time I try to run a service on Ruhr Sieg Nord or Spessart Rampe, but I don't think I've completed a whole run before exiting the game due to the soundissues.

    With that said though, the sounds that do work I think are really good. The Talent 2 för Schnellfahrstrecke sounds amazing to me. It's the locos from the preserved collection that have the issues, especially the in-cab sounds in BR143, BR146, BR155 and also the BR185. All these locos sounded ok in TSW2020, so it's not a matter of bad sounds, but a problem with converting the locos from TSW2020 to TSW2.

    When these issues have been addressed I will definitely return to TSW2. My only hope is that it will be sooner rather than later.
     
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  10. BigH

    BigH Active Member

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    I haven´t given up on TSW 2. I just want to "finish" TSW 2020 trophys before the PS5 comes out, because i only want to carry TSW 2 over. Occasionally i do a service or two or something else and by the time i switch to TSW 2 all the bugs will be sorted out. Well, maybe. Hopefully.

    Because i do care about trophys, imagine my dissapointment when "German Legend" on TSW 2020 did not pop the other day. I have not touched the game for a couple of days, but i will go back and probably try again.
     
  11. maxthum

    maxthum Active Member

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    I haven't given up TSW2, but actually used it more than TSW2020. Sure TSW2 has bugs but it's still playable. The DLC that is being made available are extra flexibility for those who own it. For me, SPG, SKA and Bakerloo are all really good routes that I'm invested in playing the scenarios and timetable mode.

    For me, the driving experience matters over earning achievements and doing collectibles. Many would agree that the driving experience in a first-person pov is good as.
     
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  12. Alexandra

    Alexandra Active Member

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    I haven't given up on TSW-2, nor am I likely to. At the moment I've apparently driven 5934 miles, done more than 100 services and am at TSW-2 level 130 or thereabouts. So clearly I enjoy this game and thanks to present circumstances, am frequently able to play. Mostly German routes, mostly passenger. If a bug or defect makes a scenario unplayable or no fun, I've just moved on. Obviously there's an abundance of great entertainment here for me and people like me. Perfection would be wonderful, but is probably unachievable.

    We can applaud the research done by Heyitspopcorn. That's data I didn't even know existed and it's fascinating. But many will agree it's difficult to parse out why people quit playing. It's been said that the vast majority of players are put off by one defect or another. Well, "vast majority" isn't a number, is it? What we do know is that there are all sorts of problems, large and small. Some make certain scenarios unplayable, others are merely irritants. It's also certainly true that no aspect of the game pleases everyone. For me, if I can drive an S-Bahn or Regio, make every stop on time and bring my train to a stop within 1 meter of the Haltestelle -- I am content. If I can do this at night, in a snow storm -- I'm even more pleased with myself. This is an enjoyable game and it keeps getting better. That's my take on this, anyway.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
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  13. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Well-Known Member

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    On pc there is TS2021, on console there is only TSW2
    So look no further.

    I would add that a game like dirt rally 2.0 does not have many more players per day on average 980 players for an AAA game, isn't that much?

    Another which should not have so many players and yet:
    Euro truck simulator with an average of 17,000 players daily

    In short, for me the numbers mean nothing, as long as TS2021 is still playable on PC you will still have a difference of plus or minus 500 players daily.
    If TS2021 were no longer playable, there would be triple the number of players on TSW2, at least as much as on console.

    Personally I play TSW2 everyday and find my account there, I am very happy with TSW2 and wish more DLC to come.
    TS2021 is wobbly and full of bugs much worse than TSW2, I know what I'm talking about I have 7280h of play on TS and 180h on TSW2
    On TSW2 no problem for me, on TS2021 dumps and other bullshit every 10 minutes ....
    I was so fed up with TS that I permanently uninstalled it in favor of TSW2.

    And you know what ?
    I don't regret it, I have more fun on TSW2
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
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  14. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Haven't we had this thread recently?

    I haven't given up on it, whilst I still think, for me there is a lot more of "prototype" interest on TS1 at the moment I am enjoying firing up
    TSW2 and wondering round the various routes and picking a service to drive. Especially on TVL which is so atmospheric and is my favourite period.

    As more content comes along the more I will use it, along side TS1 instead of it.

    I think that will be the case for many people.
     
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  15. james64

    james64 Member

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    PS4 player here.

    When TSW2 came out I did most of the tutorials and a fair amount of scenarios, but the problem was there were only three routes- one of which I had no interest in whatsoever (sand patch).

    So I've decided to wait until more preserved collection routes get added before jumping back in, most notably Great Western Express. It was my favourite route in TSW2020 and by far the one I put the most time into.

    I also wanted to give DTG more time to fix bugs and other issues, which seems like the right move given this whole mess with Rapid Transit getting added. So while it's true I haven't played the game in a number of weeks, it's because I'm waiting for more content I'm actually interested in to get added.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
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  16. DominusEdwardius

    DominusEdwardius Active Member

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    Would say to an extent that players not completing a single tutorial/scenario/service isn't really that much cause for concern. I mean people not completing a tutorial could simply be the people like myself who literally never play the tutorials simply because well, you don't have to and don't need to. There is literally nothing stopping you entering the first tutorial pressing escape and returning to the main menu (and nor should there be).

    Similarly not completing a scenario, maybe the person just doesn't play scenarios (like myself) playing service mode only. Or indeed vice versa, or maybe the player doesn't really care about driving trains and just explores the world on foot riding trains to their hearts content. In that case also not reaching level 5 is explainable simply by the fact riding trains only won't cause you to level up naturally. I'm sure there are many other similar explanations as well, people can play the game however they want.
     
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  17. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I am one. I always exit out of the tutorials, I rarely do them, and I don't play scenarios, I use service mode and spend quite a lot of time on foot and riding trains as well as driving.
     
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  18. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Simply because TSW does not have a community where we can share and download our creations. So there’s a lack of things to do once you’ve done the services, which in itself can get quite repetitive after a while.

    TSW is a closed game. DTG want us to play it how they expect us to. There’s no sharing capabilities as mentioned above so all our creations are only for our own benefit only.

    There’s no editor so nothing is ‘free’ in TSW which totally destroys the ability for the community to make any routes.
     
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  19. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I read on here from someone in the know that console players outnumber PC players by an order of magnitude. From that, I’d estimate that only around 8% to 12% of TSW2 players are PC players. A lot of those players will most likely have TS as well, along with other train simulators, with their entire collection to choose from, so will only play the handful of routes in TSW2 for a small percentage of their train simming time, and that will naturally peak when there is something new to play. So a large drop from the initial number of players, all buying TSW2 on release, and those players returning to TS for the majority of their simming is not surprising. 500-600 daily players in around 10% of the player base isn’t an unhealthy number and it’s not the same 500-600 players playing every day, while everyone else never plays it, so the total number of players is higher.

    On all platforms there will be people who buy it and don’t stick with it for very long for lots of reasons, one being it’s a simulator and simulators take effort to get into, another being that train simulators in general might not be their thing. They tried it out and then went back to shooting zombies. There are people who will pop in every now and then as one of many games they have, and then there are people like me, who have no interest in other games, and generally play every day.
     
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  20. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    There is just not enough to do to enjoy at the moment (German freight) since DTG decided to release the old stuff in a FUBAR state. I'm just sick of those synthesizer sounds while beeing shaked like drivin off-road on MSB and don't want to do just S-Bahn, have spent 500€ on DLC and stuck with S-Bahn I already spent 1000 hours with in TSW1 ...

    Maybe new routes will rejoice me with TSW2.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
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  21. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Very much in line with my own thoughts. I'm sure there are people who bought the sim and discovered that it was not what they expected. It does take some patience and commitment, the learning curve might be a little steep for some. Maybe more comprehensive instructions, some handholding are called for. I myself had to study up on MU and DPU. As time goes by, I'm sure there will be a substantial core of enthusiasts who are excited about the potential of TSW.
     
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  22. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    First of all, let me note that I never launch TS, TSW, or TSW2 for the sake of hunting "bugs" or searching for something "broken". On the rare occasion when something comes along that strikes me as odd or unusual, I almost always just go right past it.
    Lately, I'll admit, I've neglected TSW2, partly because I can see the last of the Sand Patch switching activities approaching and have no interest whatsoever in the two all-passenger-trains-all-the-time runs that populate its other two routes; but also because I've returned to TS, now monikered as TS2021 in a sort of back-to-the-future paradox. This switch came about because I saw adds for and purchased two switching-heavy TS routes: Granger Heartland and CSX Hanover Subdivision, both of which I heartily recommend.
    No doubt, this post will lead some bugged-brokeners to elevate my "fan boy" status, but in all honesty I must note that at 76 years old I'm well past boyhood and that I've never really descended into fandom for anyone or anything. Phooey to negativity: I prefer enjoying what's there to searching for and grousing about what's not because I want everything my own way (see boyhood comment above).
     
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  23. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I have already reached fan boy status apparently! It is a way of making your argument illegitimate.
     
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  24. federicodiliberto2001

    federicodiliberto2001 Well-Known Member

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    The majority of people do not realize how boring a train sim is if you are not passionate about trains.

    Some of my friends where initially intrigued by the idea of "diving trains" but after watching 30s of me streaming TSW2 said "how can you play that is so boring".

    It's a bit like flight sims, to drive a huge train or pilot a big plane might seem cool, and is cool for us, but in reality is boring for the majority of the population.

    In my opinion the tutorials do not help, since they are significantly different from the real services, I'd much rather see as first tutorial getting from one station to another rather than just accelerate/brake... but it is what it is

    Also about the collectibles, for me they can be eliminated altogheter, and please DO NOT MAKE GAMEPLAY RELATED OBJECT COLLECTIBLES, like you did for the screens on the bakerloo, it's bad enough already that they don't work but the static image should have been the very least.

    Apart from the BKL screen (which I was forced to ""fix"" to get a semi realistic experience - never dare to do something like that again DTG.) I couldn't care less about all the others, I even think the journey mode is a waste of time, but I know a lot of people disagree as well. Timetable mode is the only thing I'm interested
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
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  25. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    A big surge at launch and then numbers settling to a much lower level is pretty normal, especially for something niche like this. You're going to get folks buying it because it looks cool and then realizing then other than driving a short scenario for 20 minutes, train driving is boring. Which, unless you really like the subject...to most humans with sense...it is. LOL. Sam also pointed out in another thread that what they're seeing is that TSW play times tend to be short, bite size cunks of one scenario or timetable for 30-40 minutes or so at a time, while in TS people will play for hours. So the two games are possibly attracting slightly different audiences (with overlap of course) at this time.
     
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  26. johnjohn190690

    johnjohn190690 Active Member

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    I've played TSxx for nearly four years and tbh I haven't touched the tutorial it's pointless unless there's a train I'm not familiar. Also to point out people on PC are not giving up I've never been one for achievements even with ATS and ETS2 I don't have many achievements I play for what the game is. TSxx numbers will always be high due to editor and loads more content. TSW2 is slowly building up its content I haven't used the UK routes nor US routes I've only used Köln-Aachen so far and just waiting for more timetable services. München - Augsburg on the other hand has 427 services from what looks like day one release I'll be spending hours upon hours on these two german routes. Have no interest in the Bakerloo Line.
     
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  27. olsbyn

    olsbyn Member

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    The thing I like about the TSW series over TS is all the included scenarios and time tables, I have to admit I feel ripped of buying a dlc for TS and all you have is 3 - 5 scenarios for 30 euros, the advantage is the editor..but still.

    What I don't like in general is to be treated like dirt or a lesser human by Dovetail customer service, this has put me of a lot and made me wonder wether I should support them with buying more content or not, I suspect lower ratings is just as much related to how DTG treat the people that put food on their table to how good the sims really are.
     
  28. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    That's a disturbing sentiment. Do you have an example of this you can share (PM is fine if you'd sooner not do it publicly)
     
  29. WVUadam

    WVUadam Active Member

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    If this was like marvel avengers or Anthem. This would be a commercial failure. Can't believe how low the player Base is on PC. It's a good job Dovetail make other games and released to console market. Must have wealthy investors I Reckon.
     
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  30. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I haven't played for a couple of days, last outing was with the Class 40 and have to say I was a bit disappointed with the sound, in the port over.
    However main reason is nothing to do with my liking or otherwise for TSW2 (I actually really like the game and the concept) but simply, 1. Because I decided it was high time to finish my current run up to Beagle Point in Elite Dangerous and on to Semotus Beacon. 2. I just bought the Cajon and San Bernardino add ons for Run 8 so had to justify the expenditure and actually explore them. 3. I still keep dropping into MSFS to see if the latest Asobo patch has broken more than it fixed...
     
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  31. martschuffing

    martschuffing Active Member

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    Well as a more regular player of TSW2 than TSW2020 I can say that the little V60 shunter has had me playing more and I generally wasn't interested in shunting services, too boring for my tastes, but give me that little shunter and I'm as happy as pig in S***! Now we're getting a G6 shunter which I enjoyed making Piloting scenario's for TS Classic and a BR232 freight loco to boot I can say I will be playing even more to push those PC percentages up a bit more! :love:
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2020
  32. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    On this point , I totally disagree. Have never been one to follow the crowd and could care less about popularity as long as a franchise has enough of a following for continued development. Points, medals and achievements, I could not care less about.

    BUT, the collectibles, surprisingly have become a feature of the TSW franchise I really enjoy. I enjoy the incentive to explore the well constructed world DTG has taken the time to create. On Main Spessart Bahn, exploring the dock area well before arrival of a diesel switcher to take advantage of the trackage was great. To discover the signal electrical boxes emitting the electrical hum one hears in RL. I find when I have just a little time to devote my “play” instead of doing a partial run, I will explore a route on foot just to be find these little tidbits.
     
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  33. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I feel TSW2 has not given me the opportunity to run what I want where I want.
    My last run on TSW was before TSW2 was launched and I don't feel the need to return to it.
    I like the driving part of the sim and gimmicks like collectables don't mean much.

    Peter
     
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  34. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    I enjoy TSW2 as it is now.
    Don't play any other train sims, despite an enormous collection of TS stuff collected over the years.

    The initial problem of TSW was the slow accumulation of routes and addons.
    There just wasn't enough variety.
    Fortunately this is slowly being addressed.
     
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  35. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    To be honest I can only say good things about the customer service. I have reported more than 100 issues after TSW2 launch. In all cases the replies were polite as you could expect. They drove me to the right direction when I was wrong with my understanding of some of the game implementations and they were always patient and addressed the topics that were real bugs to development team.

    Cheers
     
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  36. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I specifically remember this hidden trail on Ruhr Sieg Nord that had you walk away from the tracks following a dirt path through this wooded area, only to find yourself standing by a picturesque pond surrounded by a canopy of trees. Near kilometre post 57, I believe as it is advertised.

    [​IMG]

    It really makes you appreciate the work of the art team.
     
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  37. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    In my case I have a love-hate relationship with this simulator :D I like the overall concept a lot and those things such the attention to details put on both scenery and rolling stock are unique, to be totally fair with the creators. You don´t find anything similiar elsewhere. If you like railways this is one of the best simulators you can use.

    On the other hand the ancient bugs existing over years and years, in some cases since the original routes were released, the still not so flexible playability (services and scenarios are sometimes very linear and copies of each other) and the well known issues such as lights, shadows and weather sometimes make we think twice what I can really expect in the future from this game. What I can´t understand is why the final results are so unbalanced: the good things are really good while the bad things are terrible. They dedicate a lot of efforts to create some things and you notice they are really done with love and care and on the other hand the errors appear to be threated as non relevant topics or put aside or even forgotten :o To be honest I didn´t see any significant change in this approach to keep game properly debugged over the last years, and that makes me worry if I plan to invest a lot of time and money on it.

    I have faith in this, but as time passes by it´s harder to keep it :)

    Cheers
     
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  38. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    You are right - the collectibles do not mean diddle-squat, but the enjoyment of exploring the environment, discovering little tidbits like off the path German garden plots that are so typical of that country, the trail back to a quaint pond... nothing to do with driving, but at times I like to slow down and smell the roses. Nice thing about for those who don’t want to do the collectibles, nothing in the simulation pushes you to do so and they do not distract from the simulation.
     
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  39. Stockton Rails

    Stockton Rails Well-Known Member

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    ...yeah, I feel the same way about these ‘collectibles’. I ran into the same area you did with the pond... I enjoyed checking that out actually! I also remember running into a group of abandoned houses in some trees next to the tracks in one of the German routes (forget which one). There was graffiti on at least some of the houses, the fenced yards were a mess, the shrubs were all overgrown, etc. I remember thinking about how much effort the designers put into that area- let alone the entire route! Pretty impressive in my book.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
  40. maz_62

    maz_62 Member

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    Agree.

    Been walking the Trans Pennine and the view over a wall of the canal with boats can only be seen, never mind appreciated, on foot. it’s worth taking the time to walk parts of the route.

    Disappointed though to realise there isn’t an achievement for getting the 100 collectibles
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
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  41. Alexandra

    Alexandra Active Member

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    Exactly! The artists that create this world labored long on things that some of us never see. I ignored collectables and never left my cab until in Köln - Aachen curiosity finally caused me to walk down the track west from Düren and inspect the Dreigurtbrücke (Three Belt Bridge) over the River Rur. This historic bridge, now a landmark, opened in 1930 and was the first of its kind in the world. Huge "thank you" to the anonymous creator of the excellent TSW2 version. ;)

    From abandoned houses, to canal boats and from engineering marvels to churches with working bell towers, the landscape has been a delight to explore. I imagine that the only collectables I found were those I tripped over, but although I have forever been very much a believer in Matt's, learn the line dictum, trackwalking really has enhanced and changed my perspective on the routes I drive.

    One person's gimmick is another person's treasure -- and I'm glad of it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
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  42. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Do not forget the sound produced by the semaphore signals at WSR. You can only hear them if you are there using camera 8 and get close to the signal...

    Also, did you have a look at the roofs of the railway stations in GWE?
    Did you ever do a graffiti tour?

    I would love to create track walk scenarios. Unfortunately this is not yet possible ....
     
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  43. metr0p0litain

    metr0p0litain Active Member

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    Because I'm a creator and there will be NO editor. That's it. I lost my interest in this simulator and I'm not going to purchase any content anymore. Before the official statement (that there'll be no editor for the public) I thought I can help to support DTG with buying new routes and trains (gosh, how stupid?). Maybe I'm more disappointed in this way, but it's ok for me.
     
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  44. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    That would be a good idea for railfan touring. You can travel as passenger to some stations, then walk around to discover things and take another train to go to next station. Scenarios use the walk paths so that´s possible in game, but with current editing limitations that´s not possible for users, yeap.

    Cheers
     
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  45. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Each to their own. Some people like walking around the area they have in the game
    Others, like me, prefer to Drive Trains :)
     
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  46. bartolomaeusz

    bartolomaeusz New Member

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    The only reason I quit playing TSW2 is that it quit working on my computer at the release of Preserved Collection 5. I have a ticket in on it, and hopefully there will be a fix where I can go back to TSW2 soon. Meanwhile, continuing my progress in TSW 2020, which runs great.
     
  47. Reventloff

    Reventloff Active Member

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    As mentioned above by few already: the issue with low player base is obviously caused by the nature of the simulator itself. There is not enough motivation (gaming aspect gimmicks) for most players here. Collecting signs, getting driver levels, AP scores... they are just not enough to make average player stay interested for long. No progression, no rewarding system = no motivation if you are not a real railfan (and just here to drive trains). Look at the success of Euro Truck Simulator 2 for instance. You need to make money to get new toys (trucks) and thats the motivation! )) Not the case with train sim though.

    What we really need more to stay interested is more challenging scenarios/services in my opinion. When driving train is not enough anymore - you start to seek for more challenges, more action (more red lights, AI traffic, shunting, loading coal etc.). Most services are like "drive from A to B in green line" is the main problem in my opinion here.
     
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  48. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    I agree. The same could (incorrectly) be said for flight simulators. On the base of it, they are simply flying an aircraft from A to B. There is no variation there.

    The kick with flight sims is the relentless pursuit of realism. People want to replicate the real world to the smallest detail because it’s a world very few people actually inhabit (just like the railway), and they will spend thousands of pounds to do so. That world is FAR more complicated, complex and variable than the railway and consequently much harder to simulate. That pursuit of realism means perfectly recreated aircraft with full functionality, cold starts, shut downs, checklists etc. You then get community projects like VatSim which is truly awesome.

    Like it or not, Microsoft and ASOBO get that and from the very start have made MSFS2020 accessible to the community and modders.

    TSW, on the other hand, doesn’t know what it is. It is in some weird halfway house between a sim and a gimmicky game. For example, you get cold starts in tutorials but never seen them in game. You have signalling systems but they’re often implemented incorrectly and/or buggy so they don’t work. On the flip side there are trophies, collectibles & points. Everything is scripted and absolutely nothing is dynamic.

    It is also a completely closed architecture so the community can do virtually nothing with it. The unfortunate truth is that left to DTG alone TS1 would have died a death years ago. It is 3rd party content and the community that have kept it alive. Bar some of the routes (which is far and away DTG’s clear strength) the content is, surprise surprise, half-arsed, poorly simulated and buggy. TSW’s problem is there is not enough 3rd party content and the community cannot get involved at all. We’re stuck with DTG and their completely random quality levels. Fantastic one minute, dire the next.

    It’s not the genre that’s the problem, it’s the philosophy of TSW. In trying to please all of the people all of the time it’s chasing its tail around in circles without progressing. It’s no good blaming the genre. Make the ‘sim’ attractive enough (not gimmicks) and people will come. Flight Sim has proved that time and time again.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
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  49. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    This is something that puzzles me. Why have a levelling system if you don't unlock anything? Why spend so much time fussing over Action Points when you can't spend them on anything? Frankly, action points are a very lazy way to gauge driving performance. They took a step in the right direction with TSW2020, showing a debrief at the end of each run so that you could review your stopping accuracy and speed limit adherence, but being rewarded a few points for sounding the horn for the first time is so utterly pointless for a simulation.

    It was teased in a recent stream that DTG are reworking the Mastery system to reward more than just overlays and backdrops. I hope that, for the sake of a coherent career mode, it will introduce more concrete rewards such as unlocking (likely fictional) liveries. And for those who do not care about such unprototypical activities, they should not be bothered to ignore it.
     
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  50. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Do you have some examples or is this just your memories of what was?

    The Payware from other providers, like Armstrong Powerhouse, Just Trains, Rivet Games, Steam Sounds Supreme etc is what keeps TS1 in front of TSW for playability and the way to build complete trains and routes for the game.
     
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