Petition For Gwr 166 On London-brighton On Last Gen

Discussion in 'PlayStation Discussion' started by bart2day, Oct 1, 2021.

  1. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe a 10% chance Thameslink comes as a dlc at a later stage, then it will be interesting, as this will add another loco to all platforms... or will it... pherhaps all dlc for london commuter will be next gen only?
     
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  2. photonmonkey

    photonmonkey Well-Known Member

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    I was gutted as soon as Matt cleared up (brushed over) the lack of layers on the route, I had stumped up for the Season ticket and was expecting the full deal, but no last gen gets stuffed again. Agree that the route although looks nice will get stale very quickly with the current 2 available units. Why oh why does DTG release a game on last gen and then start creating timetables that they must know would kill the old hardware. It’s clear they are only developing with next gen in mind. I mean 1200 services, I don’t really care if they are all the same unit, it’s going to look and feel pretty boring seeing the same train go passed every few seconds. I think they should strip back services and add the 166 at least. As I have the season ticket I will get the route by default but the Boston route I find a tad boring. I am also now worried that after watching the stream Matt hinted that the crashes on Dresden might be related to layers, just hope they don’t suddenly decide to strip those back as well as I love what we have on that route.
     
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  3. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    The thing will be, if you own a PS5 it will take 2 years. Than they will be old too and can't compete with the current PCs at that time. Will it be similar like now with "dont holding back the newer platform". That would mean that you buy a PS5 next year if it is perhaps better available than now. And then after one year you will watch jealous on the new PCs because they get more TSW2 content.

    DTG should look more on the example Sony made with GT7. As they recognized that there are not so many PS5 available, they decided to make a PS4 version with not lesser content too.

    I think with enough consequently development work memory use optimization could make the layers available for last gen consoles too.
     
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  4. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    The raw issue is that the PS4 & X1 have virtually no usable ram, it’s less than 8gb which is pitiful, where as the PS5/XSX have 16gb ram, it’s not really something that’s going to diminish unless DTG start making really crazy timetables, but even then we don’t know how close DTG are to the limits of PS5 and Series machines, on the other hand it’s not like DTG can create more ram either, the forum is already full of performance issue posts for the PS4 and Xbox, which are no doubt the flip side to having more passengers and services, so the question would be, would it be worth loosing 600 electrostar services, to run 200 extra services that’ll make the game look and run poorly.

    I remember when TSW 2 first released, on PS4 SKA you had blurry textures, trains would pop up directly in front of you, some would load in passing you, others would half load resulting in either a weird texture bug or just straight up be missing carriages halfway along the train.

    Frankly 1200 playable services on PS4/X1 is a shocking achievement, and I really doubt it’s as simple as running a reduced timetable to make room for extra layers.

    Some routes are just more intensive than others, clearly the issue here is that this route is memory heavy, which is why Dresden - Riesa has more playable units, but even there the DLC across all platforms is held back by last gen as it cannot support further loco substitution, which is something DTG have hopefully mitigated for PS5/XS/PC in the upcoming update.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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  5. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    My thinking is that the reason we haven’t seen DLC for more intensive routes is down to this issue, TSG already hinted at this being a problem with the BR 420 which is why it’s taking a while to get out, I suspect we won’t be seeing any Rush Hour loco DLC add ons for a while.
     
  6. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    The PS 4 and Xbox One customers will deside how to react at a treatment as a second class customer. I could imagine a lot of them will act very consequently in one direction.
     
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  7. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    “A lot of them” is probably an over reaction, in the end TSW is the only train simulator on console barring a couple of off brand releases, DTG have essentially accomplished a technical marvel with getting TSW onto gen 8 machines, and they’re still continuing to do so, BML has been a long anticipated release, and that wasn’t because people wanted to drive a 166 between Gatwick and Reigate, the core experience is still there and many have been waiting to get stuck into that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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  8. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    It depends if there will be much more routes like BML, then they will not buy that routes. Than they will buy routes like Sherman Hill and West Cornwall where they have a bigger choice than 2 electrostars only.

    And don't forget the PS5 customers will be the second class customers in 2 years from now.

    The difference will be that in 2 years there will not be a PS6. Then with the "dont holding back the other plattforms" theory you have to change from PS5 to PC to get first class content. :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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  9. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    That’s exactly my point, the actual experience of the BML is the electrostars, it’s not like the 166’s run the length of the route, they run a total of 3 stops on a 19 minute service.
     
  10. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    The explanation they gave yesterday about the ram and the trains take too much ram made me thinking. Being not playable on last gen I find not a big deal but not having them as AI traffic I think is a bummer. Why do they need to load the entire train? Can't they make stripped down models? The trains are so detailed I'm not surprised they take a lot of ram but a lot of stuff is not needed on AI trains. They should make stripped down versions of the AI trains so they are visible on last gen as well.
     
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  11. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    I like routes with variety. That means with passenger and freight action or with something special like the TGV at Marseille to Avignon. BML with commuting only is boring.
     
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  12. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    I mean your issue sounds like you just don’t like the route as opposed to the layer limitations, even with active layers there’s only 2 freight services that aren’t even 2 hours of gameplay, so yeah if I was only interested in freight I wouldn’t be interested in this route either, the rest of the layers are all commuter based.

    There’s certainly not going be a mass boycott over 2 missing freight runs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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  13. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    I agree different AI trains other than Electrostars is kind of essential to give that sense of reality, immersion, and to take away the sheer boredom of driving and seeing wall to wall Electrostars on a busy route like RH BML Yes as a PS4 player it would be annoying not driving different trains other than Electrostars but I’d get over it if we had some different AI ones running about.

    As CK95 says BML is all about Electrostars at the end of the day and whilst working out a way to give PS4 players a variety of AI trains might hold versions for the next generation back a little bit surely it’s a compromise that’s worth making so everyone is kinda satisfied if not totally.

    It’s the price DTG should pay for making the decision to support older and newer generation consoles.
     
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  14. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    It is not the pure amount of services. It is about variety. Even there are not so much 66 services, but the 66 is still there and you recognize them even you use the electrostars only.
     
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  15. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I get the traffic thing, again in the grand scheme of things, you’ll see the 66 only for a couple of select hours of the day, the 166 will only be between Gatwick, Redhill & Reigate, with 1 also at Brighton in the evening & the odd HST probably a couple of times a day at Clapham. There’s then the 465 & 375 which is probably going to be the biggest hit to scenery traffic around the London area, but all in all 1200 services are being ran by the included route stock, so it will still be very busy.

    If you compare this to HMA, which was a bum deal because we essentially got an empty route without the layers, BML is quite the improvement in traffic, and the traffic you see will be very realistic in 95% of the route compared to what you would see if you went and traveled the route IRL.

    My question is, if DTG said they could give you the 200 layered services aswell as the AI SEHS/GWE traffic, in exchange for half the current services, would you take that?

    Surely When the the DLC is basically at IRL capacity anyway, these layers become less noticeable, especially when you consider the majority of the time an electrostar is probably going to block your view of the other traffic since there are like 3 of these departing every couple of minutes, the route is going to be completely flooded with action.

    For me personally, having been on PS4, I’d take the 1200 services and run with it, because that is 3x more than any other DLC, and honestly I’m surprised they didn’t have to cut the timetable to make it work.
     
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  16. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    Yes I preferred a lesser amount of services, if I get more variety in units. What do I have from 1200 services, if it is electrostars only.

    And that is the difference to HMA there you have the DB BR 403 for higspeed besides the DB BR 423 for commuting.

    If they offered HMA with 2 german commuters only, I definitely didn't bought that route.
     
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  17. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    On BML you have that too, the 377 is the commuter and the 387 is the express train.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
  18. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly that is the problem. No freight ot Thames Link like in real.

    BML even with the layers is like HMA without the ICE 3.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
  19. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    No one is getting Thameslink or any real freight at all though, again this just comes down the route itself, not platform restrictions.

    If you today went down to London Victoria, and got on a train to Brighton, you would basically get the experience in traffic you will get in game, barring SE, Thameslink, GWR & SWT services, but 2 of those aren’t even in TSW all together, the end result is that even on PS4 and X1, you are getting the majority of the real life experience.

    Comparing it to HMA just isn’t fair, because on one hand, the express services that do exist on this route IRL, are included, and on the other hand, HMA has way less going on than this route will have, and they both include the same number of trains as standard.

    Again I’m really not sure what it is you’re driving at, you seem to take issue with what the experience of this route is going to be, as opposed to the differences between platforms.

    The Brighton mainline is a commuter corridor, with both slow and fast services, both of which are represented across all platforms.
     
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  20. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    HMA has real high speed with 230 kph. That is much more like Gatwick express services with their 180 kph. And cockpits of the ICE3, the Javelin and the TGV Duplex look much more impressive (they look like a jet cockpit) than that from the electrostars. The aerodynamic design of the high-speed ones looks also much better. It's like to compare a supersportscar with a compact car.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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  21. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Again, that’s not DTG’s fault and has absolutely nothing to do with platform limitations.

    In any case if that’s what you’re after I’d recommend steering clear of this route, since it is primarily (and in some areas completely) serviced by electrostars.
     
  22. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    And who decided which content will be in that route? It is the choice of the company, not of the developers only.
     
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  23. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    If you haven’t confused yourself, you’ve certainly confused me.

    What is it exactly you were expecting from this route, based on a current era time table? Anything running from London upto Brighton on this line IRL is an electrostar.
     
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  24. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    To make it rethoric. Thames Link is not currently at the BML? You should visit the homepage of Thames Link than. :)
     
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  25. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Thameslink is not in the Game, on any platform.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
  26. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    I know that already. That's why I said a lot of posts bevor that BML is not realistic in TSW2 even you have all layers like on PS5.
     
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  27. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    It is the same with RT. There you have passenger and freight action in real. In TSW2 it is passenger action only.
     
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  28. Gilly

    Gilly Well-Known Member

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    It's actually the current or past relevant operator/operators that ultimately determines what stock to use on a route. All DTG do is replicate that accurately.
    Much as it's nice to think and lay blame at the production and publishing company they have no control over it whatsoever. All they do is simulate what said operator defines and ultimately licenses to them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
  29. Gilly

    Gilly Well-Known Member

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    I think the answer your looking for is Thursday but then again it could be Banana, definitely one of them though!
    My head hurts mummy......
     
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  30. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    Yes formally you have right you have to have the Thames Link license. But in a market economy it is a thing of the price you have to pay to the owner of the rights for the licenses.
     
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  31. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    The irony of which goes back to your original complaint, before you back flipped your way to this point, is that even if Thameslink did exist within TSW 2, you wouldn’t have that layer on PS4.

    In fact any route that could support a Thameslink DLC currently, probably doesn’t partly because DTG don’t want to release DLC’s which eliminate last gen machines.

    And even then, the TL services are still commuter services, and even included more, yes more! electrostars, the 2 things you’ve said you already don’t like.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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  32. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    Ah DTG dont get the Thameslink license for not making PS 4 players unhappy. How do you feel with that as a proud PS5 owner that you will not get the Thameslink only because DTG cares to much about their PS4 customers. :)
     
  33. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    I couldn’t care less…

    Never said I did, you’re the one who has the issue.
     
  34. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    In 2 years you will have the same issue. But than you will say that you have to accept buy a PC. That is the thing you don't understand. At the long term consoles can never compete with actual PC's. Because 2 years after release the hardware on PC's is much better. But the production time of a console is about 7 years. First than you can get the same performance with a new console. So the treatment of the PS4 customers at the moment is the prequel from that you will experience in about 2 years.
     
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  35. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Very Cool.
     
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  36. Gilly

    Gilly Well-Known Member

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    Not always, I operate licenses off of several brands and also license out our intellectual property. In both cases I have situations where no money whatsoever changes hands. We gain a benefit greater than we could on our own and so do they.
     
  37. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    Sure some rights owners give you the license for free. Because they have a good marketing through the use of their brand in a simulation.
     
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  38. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    Your welcome.
     
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  39. sergio volodstok

    sergio volodstok Active Member

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    Brighton Mainline: Quality < Quantity. At this point I hope Brighton Mainline will run alright with the 1200 services, because we can forget about ever seeing those layers on old gen.. If we're not getting them on HMA ever, than we're definitely never seeing them here.
    I will be very disappointed if layers are ripped out of Riesa to Dresden, though, as that is my favorite of the Rush hour routes so far- and I'm still waiting patiently for those additional freight services to be added.. :|
     
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  40. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Being dissatisfied that there too many Electrostars on BML is an ignorance to the route. It was always going to be predominantly Electrostars as it’s one of the types major routes.
     
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