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Preserved Collection

Discussion in 'Xbox Discussion' started by lukereynolds1, Jun 10, 2020.

  1. lukereynolds1

    lukereynolds1 New Member

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    Although, I am excited for the release of Train Sim World 2, I feel slightly let down that in yesterday's announcement, that it was stated that routes from TSW2020 will be "preserved, not remastered".

    This would be understandable, if the issues within these games had been resolved, or if Dovetail made a commitment to resolve them before releasing TSW2. However, as it stands, I have spent money purchasing content that doesn't work in the way it should. Mainly, I am referring to the Northern Transpennines Express, where the class 47 is very underpowered, and also the Great Western Express, where trains with AWS activated loose power when entering platform 5 of Reading Station.

    These faults have been long known by the company, yet nothing has been done to resolve them. People have paid alot of money for a game that promised "immersive, first-person simulation" based on "authenticity". Yet these known-faults, prevent this from happening.

    Inacction to resolve these problems is unfair to the community. If I purchased a faulty product from the shop, them I am entitled to a refund or a replacement. This is still the case for digital products. Until yesterday's announcement, I was hopeful that such faults would be rectified. However, I have now lost hope. Dovetail should rectified these issues as a priority, or refund their customers for acknowledging faults in the products they have sold, and being inactive in resolving them in a reasonable period of time.

    Please can you pass on the absolute importance of game faults to be resolved before "preserving" the routes.
     
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  2. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Remastering the routes we be the equivalent of remaking them, which would take years.
     
  3. dreampage

    dreampage Active Member

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    Matt said in the last QA session that there will be no more updates for TSW 2020 routes. What we have today is what we'll have in the future. However, I don't expect TSW 2 to be radically different, so older routes will not stick out in any way compared to the new ones. I'm confident it will be a similar experience, for better or worse.
     
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  4. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    It will better................a least a little better.
     
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  5. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    That’s what DTG has done since TSW launched. It’s definitely sad to see DTG not pay attention to the community in how they can make the game a lot better than how it is today. TSW 2 may just be another update just to attract more customers to the game. Personally I will buy DTG’s sims just cuz I have no other “better” simulator than TSW on Xbox, and it’s a good way to get away from my personal life, but, I really wish DTG could have done better, if they did, TSW would be sooooo much different.
     
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  6. dreampage

    dreampage Active Member

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    Please keep in mind that DTG are a small studio. They don't have the resources of AAA studios and publishers. And TSW is quite an ambitious game, having a detailed simulation engine, huge maps, lots of features and little details, all on three different platforms at the same time. There is huge amount of work going into the game but there's only so much DTG can do. It's not like Microsoft Flight Simulator where they have all the money and infrastructure in the world to develop everything to the smallest detail.
     
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  7. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    DTG only have 45/55 employees max I would say. There office is at Chatham Dockyard and the offices there aren't that big.
     
  8. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    I know Wikipedia isn't always accurate but it states DTG has 120 employees and I'm sure during streams, I've heard 150 mentioned. Admittedly not all of them will be working on the train sim side of things.
     
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  9. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Well on the DTG youtube channel on the mannequin challenge video. They went through the whole office theres not enough room for even 80 people. Watch it and let me know your opinion.
     
  10. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    https://www.linkedin.com/company/dovetail-games

    From their LinkedIn page:

    About us

    Bringing you news and career opportunities from Dovetail Games, the award-winning developer and publisher of Train Sim World and Fishing Sim World.

    At Dovetail Games we are passionate about building beautiful worlds that empower players with the freedom to unleash their creativity, and live out their dreams. As a team we are proud of who we are, and the entertainment we aim to deliver to our customers, we work hard to build an environment that people can feel passionate about.

    Using cutting edge technology such as Unreal Engine 4 and building our games across multiple platforms - mixed with our unrivalled work life balance in the industry - you'll get the opportunity to do some of the best work of your career at Dovetail Games.

    We are growing fast, and currently employ more than 140 passionate & creative individuals at our brand new studio in the Historic Dockyard, Kent.


    I do like the bit about allowing players "the freedom to unleash their creativity". Can we edit things? "No, but here's some crayons so you can colour in your own engines!" :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
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  11. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Company size is not an excuse to not fix bugs. That's a result of greed, pure and simple.

    Many much smaller developers fix their bugs.

    I don't think anyone expects the content to be remastered. What we do expect is a working product, and compatibility across the DLC that we've paid for.
     
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  12. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Who said company size was an excuse????
     
  13. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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  14. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough then.
     
  15. Crochunter1970

    Crochunter1970 Active Member

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    The underpowered issue of the class 47 was fixed today in an update. Still, some fair points were made in the post.
     
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  16. dreampage

    dreampage Active Member

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    Last time I played the game was working, and all current DLC will be compatible with TSW 2. Also, content creation and technical support (e.g. fixing bugs) could be separate teams within the studio. One can't stop just because the other isn't working effectively enough. We don't know how Dovetail operates and how many people work on any given game. Yes, it would be cool if they slowed down content creation until all bugs are fixed in the existing content but that probably wouldn't be financially sustainable. They have to draw a line for when to move on and leave previous works behind. It's sadly the nature of indie game development, and sometimes even the biggest publishers can't cope with their more complex titles.
     
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  17. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    This is where I believe DTG has caused confusion.
    TSW2020 content will work from TSW2, but it won't be compatible because none of the new TSW2 features will be applied to TSW2020 content.

    Unless, DTG has a different definition of compatible. Because as has been answered in another post, DTG define fixing bugs as development, not support.
     
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  18. dreampage

    dreampage Active Member

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    By compatible I mean we will be able to drive those routes and locomotives in TSW 2 within the new engine (not that it will mean any graphical difference), the new HUD and possibly the new controls as well. That's definitely a plus. But yes, I doubt any new features will be accessible on the old routes. We probably won't be able to design our own scenarios, for example. I don't necessarily mind this one, but we'll see. I hope new bugs don't get introduced with the new game at least.
     
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  19. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I think that this is fair enough - but only if the unsupported products are then all withdrawn from sale.

    If they want to sell it, but it is broken...... then they should fix it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
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  20. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    No..... This hasn't been answered. Nobody has defined development as including bug-fixing. You might have walked away from that thread thinking that, but that is not what was explicitly said. Not at all.

    I suspect that it's not the answer that they will give to Sony, for example. I suspect that they will tell Sony something like ".....of course we will continue to fix defects.... deary me, why ask us that....... that's what we agreed... we won't stop fixing bugs.... nope... we will work on them very diligently..... look we even have a section on our website that makes it clear that bugs can be reported.... yes we want to continue to sell the DLC... so obviously we will continue to address all bugs and fix them as necessary, as we've agreed....."

    Nobody has explicitly said that bug-fixing will cease with the products that they intend to continute to sell on PlayStation Store.

    It is still not clear.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
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  21. JonnE

    JonnE Active Member

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    As far as I can see unfortunately there is no necessity for a company to sell their older products without further bugfixing if a minimum amount of support, which DTG will easily exceed, is ensured.

    Apparantely the main reason for products to be withdrawn from xbox / PSN store seem to be licensing issues.

    IT's definetely easy to purchase former versions of current games as well - like old COD titles (which, in case of BO III suffer gamebreaking unfixed bugs in story mode till today) or FIFA (which isn't far more than a yearly squad update) or Forza titles.

    In fact, I think despite of the miles platting crashes there is not a single bug in TSW which is gamebreaking enough for causing trouble for its publishers.

    Project Cars 2 was sold in a complete undrivable state for controller drivers for mor than a year before first updates slightly improved the situation. No consequences for the publisher.

    Don't get me wrong, in my opinion the whole management with TSW2020 is an epic step in the wrong direction and would desperately need reconsideration.

    Yet DTG has every right to do this and they don't have to fear any consequences from Sony or MS expect maybe a smaller amount of DLC sales even if the number of bugfixes in TSW2020 is going to be zero...
     
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  22. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    If that is the case, then DTG will have no problem with clearly stating that they will not attend to any defects within the TSW 2020 content. This would surely be necessary anyway - to prevent bugs from being reported, wasting a lot of time for everyone.... so the Support page will need to be updated to advise what products are subject to possible bug-fixing, and what products are completely excluded, because they are.... maybe... considered to be ... "Preserved".

    I have no problem with DTG giving an unwelcome message, as long as it is a clear message.

    What I don't think is acceptable is if the terms "development" and "support" end up having multiple vague meanings, depending on the audience. It doesn't fit well with this new era of clear, transparent and honest communication from DTG.

    More generally, you are , of course, quite right... that there is a tolerable level for bugs to exist in software. And platforms like PlayStation allow this... on the basis that there is a system for determining the severity of the bugs, and dealing with them, if the product continues to be sold through their channels. Anyone that bought Fallout 76 at launch would have been greeted with an experience loaded with 1000+ very serious bugs, destroying gameplay.... but a year later... they were all gone... (and then a few new ones popped up.... ;-)....),. They promised to fix the bugs, and then they fixed the bugs. All of them.

    I would personally rather this was all sorted now - with clear messaging - messaging that can be tested. This would remove a lot of potentially unnecessary angst within the community. But it's okay...... - the processes can also be tested after 6th August 2020, however vague they are.

    For now - it is still not clear.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
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