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Preußische Ostbahn: Berlin - Cüstrin (1910s, German Steam Engines)

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by jolojonasgames, Apr 3, 2021.

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  1. Yes

    30 vote(s)
    85.7%
  2. Maybe, if on sale

    2 vote(s)
    5.7%
  3. No

    3 vote(s)
    8.6%
  1. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Hi all, today I'm proposing something I normally don't: a historical route, the Königliche Preußische Ostbahn (Prussian East-Railway). This route will be set in the early 1900s (somwhere between 1906 and 1914 depending on the choice of locomotives) but it could also be the basis for an interbellum DRG-era timetable pack. Making this route woulnd't be possible until steam (which is currently in developement) comes to TSW.

    Contents
    • The route
      • General description and History
      • Services
    • Locos
      • What should come with the route
        • Preußische P 8
        • Preußische S 10 and/or S 10.2
        • Preußische G 8
      • DLC
        • Preußische S 3 and/or S 5
        • Preußische T 9.3
        • Preußische S 10.1 (1911 or 1914)
        • Preußische G 10
        • Different timetable pack
          • BR 44, BR 03, BR 01
    • Final words

    [​IMG]
    The route within the Berlin area.

    The route
    [​IMG]

    The entire Preußische Ostbahn, this suggestion is only for the Berlin - Cüstrin (spelled Küstrin after 1928) section.

    General description and History
    This route is set in 1899 and runs from Berlin Ostbahnhof (situated not far north of the modern-day Ostbahnhof, not to be confused with it) to Cüstrin (nowadays Kostrzyn nad Odrą), which lies just across the Oder river which forms the modern day border between Poland and Germany. A lot of trains started in the then Berlin Ostbahnhof, but some through Express Trains went through the Schlesischen Bahnhof (the current day Ostbahnhof) instead, this was situated immediately south of the Ostbahnhof, so I'd suggest adding it aswell. The choice for an end point in Cüstrin has two reasons. Firstly, it makes sense lengthwise as it gives us a route length of just under 85 km. Secondly, nearly the entire route still lies within the borders of modern day Germany, making research somewhat easier. (Extending the route to Landsberg an der Warthe (nowadays Gorzów Wielkopolski) would also be possible, as this is a major city, although this would approximately bring the route length to 125 km, a little too long for the current game)

    The mainline of the Preußische Ostbahn linked the Prussian capital of Berlin to Danzig and Königsberg in the east. It was one of the most important railway lines in the Kingdom of Prussia, and later the German Empire, Weimar Republic and even Nazi-Germany. It was managed from the start by the Prussian State Railways (Preußische Staatseisenbahnen) as its construction was ordered by Friedrich Wilhelm IV for strategic reasons. In the era befor the first world war it carried mainly cattle, fruit, vegetables and wheat, besides passengers and mail of course. It's importance was increased due to the unreliable transport by river, as the East-Prussian rivers would be to shallow in the dry summers, and frozen in the cold winters, making transport impossible. It also saw numerous fast 'D-trains' (Durchgangszüge), most notabely the D1 and D2 from Berlin to Eydtkuhnen and in the opposite direction respectively. Fun fact: the D1 covered the distance between Berlin and Königsberg in just over 7 hours in the early 1900s, nowadays, a century of railway development later, this same journey by rail will take over 40 hours, thats more than 5 times as much. It also saw the Nord-Express, a luxury international train from Paris to Russia, and later Poland and scandinavia. It had special, brown coaches.

    After the war the East-Railway's mainline became an important link with East-Prussia, which was now an exclave. The Prussian State Railways were merged into the German State Railways (Deutsche Reichsbahn Gesellschaft, commonly refered to as DRG). This interwar DRG-era could be the setting for a timetable pack like on great western.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Berlin Ostbahnhof Entrance hall and Northeastern side.

    Services
    As the route is set far in the past, getting service timetables is hard. All I know is that there were multiple D-trains a day, one Nord-Express in both directions, and numerous freight and local passenger trains throughout the day. If anyone has good timetable information, I would really like to know! :)

    Locos
    What should come with the route?

    Preußische P 8
    [​IMG]

    The P 8 was an allround locomotive developed for the Prussian State Railways, with 1887 locomotives being produced between 1906 and 1918 it was one of the most numerous on the Prussian railway network. They had a top speed of 100 km/h. Originally they were even planned to haul express trains such as the D-trains, but only did so rarely. They could be seen mostly in front of slower passenger trains. They went on to serve for many years under different railway companies. More info on Wikipedia.

    [​IMG]
    A Prussian P 8 with 3-axle compartiment coaches and a mail carriage. These 3-axle coaches could be seen on most local traffic.

    Preußische S 10 and/or S 10.2
    [​IMG]
    S 10 in the Deutschen Technikmuseum in Berlin.

    The Prussian S 10 was a 4-6-0 locomotive developed for Prussian express trains. They were built from 1910 to 1914. They could reach a top speed of 110 km/h. The S 10.2 has three cilinders and is slightly more powerful then the S 10 which has four smaller cilinders, but shares most other elements with the S 10. The similarily named S 10.1 doesn't share design features with these two locos (though this one could be a good addition too). More info on Wikipedia.

    [​IMG]
    A Prussian S 10.2, this one went to the Dutch NS as a war reperation.

    [​IMG]
    A Prussian fast train coach (Schnellzugwagen). These were hauled by the S 10s on long distance trains.
    [​IMG]
    a model of a Prussian Mail coach. These could be seen on most passenger trains as back in those days the railways were the fastest and most reliable way of shipping mail.

    Preußische G 8
    [​IMG]
    The G 8 is an 0-8-0 freight locomotive, built for the Prussian State Railways. It was designed to not exceed a 14t axle load. It was a common sight in front of Prussian freight trains, although it would get heavily outnumbered by it's later developement: the G 8.1, of which 4958 were built from 1913 until 1921. In comparison, 1045 G 8s were built between 1902 and 1913. More info on Wikipedia.


    [​IMG]
    A Prussian covered goods van, which could be added for freight services.

    DLC
    There are multiple DLC options for a route like this. There are many Prussian locomotives such as the S 3 and T 9.3 tank engine that could be added, but a different option would be a timetable pack like on Great Western. This pack could be set in the 1920s or 30s, and include locos like the BR 03 and BR 44.

    Preußische S 3 and/or S 5
    [​IMG]

    a Prussian S 3

    The S 3 was an express train locomotive, with the S 5 being an enhanced version with a larger boiler and bigger cilinders. The S 5 was initially designated as a 'strengthened S 3', but later got it's own designation. The S 3s were built between 1893 and 1904 and the S 5s between 1905 and 1911, and could be seen hauling important express trains throughout the Prussian parts of the German Empire. They had a top speed of 100 km/h, but were often limited by the large weights of their express trains (this is also why they were replaced by the S 10). More info on Wikipedia.

    [​IMG]

    A Prussian S 5 built in 1908

    Preußische T 9.3
    [​IMG]
    The Prussian T 9.3 was the most numerous of many different 2-6-0 tank engines in the Prussian State Railways. 2060 T 9.3s were built in the early 1900s, and could be seen in front of both local passenger and freight trains in the decades following. In the 1910s it wouldn't be seen in the DRG Black/Red shown above, but in the Green coulour many other Prussian locos were also painted in. They were limited to 65 km/h. More info on Wikipedia.

    Preußische S 10.1 (1911 or 1914)
    [​IMG]

    The Prussian S 10.1 is not to be confused with the S 10 and S 10.2, as it shares no components with them. It is however also a 4-6-0 express train locomotive from the same era. This locomotive could also be seen in front of important express trains. The S 10.1 showed better performance then the S 10 and S 10.2, leading to an improved, more maintenance friendly version being built from 1914 onwards. This 1914 version also altered a lot of other things, such as the length of steam piping between boiler and cilinder and the size of the firbox, despite these large changes it was still referred to as the S 10.1. On a test run the S 10.1 (1914) even reached a speed of 152 km/h, and was rumoured to have reached 156 km/h. In service it was however restricted to 110 km/h (120 for the 1911 version). They were the most powerful Prussian express locomotive, because the Prussian State Railways never operated any pacifics. More info on Wikipedia.

    [​IMG]
    A S 10.1 in front of an express train at the Schlesischen Bahnhof in Berlin, which is part of this route.

    Preußische G 10
    [​IMG]

    The Prussian G 10 was a tender engine designed for heavy goods trains, although it's low axle loading allowed for a lot of flexibility. It's boiler and cab are largely similar to those of the P 8, but the running gear is laid out in a 0-10-0 configuration, being derived from the T 16 tank engine. It's modified running gear was later used under the T 16.1 tank engine. 2677 locomotives of this type were built between 1910 and 1925. Like all other locomotives this too would have been painted the standard green of the Prussian State Railways, but most preserved ones have later paint schemes. These locos could haul additional freight services along the route. More info on Wikipedia.

    Different Timetable Pack.

    As mentioned before, the route could also be a good fit for a 1920s or 1930s timetable pack. During this era the Preußische Ostbahn was one of the most important links between Germany and its East-Prussian exclave. It might be neccesary to set this timetable pack before the Nazi-party came to power for political and historical reasons. Many of the Prussian locos included could be reused for this pack, though somewhat modified. For example the P 8 in the DRG era could be seen in a DRG Black/Red livery with different smoke deflectors, classified as a Baureihe 38. The BR 44 freight locomotive could be added for freight services, and the BR 01 or BR 03 for express train services. (the BR 03 was more frequent on this line as far as I know).

    [​IMG]
    Baureihe 44

    [​IMG]
    Baureihe 03


    Final Words
    I think that adding this part of the Preußische Ostbahn could offer players a fun experience of trains and railway operations in pre-war Germany. Research may be hard, but this route has a lot of German fans, and modelling companies already have done a lot of research on locos, so I hope that helps. I've also tried to use a lot of locos of which examples have been preserved, which could make taking measurements (or even sound recordings of the working ones) somewhat easier. This Suggestion is still very simplistic compared to my other suggestions, and I really hope some other forum users have more useful information and suggestions :). If you have any other thoughts on this route, let me know!
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
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  2. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    *Preußens Gloria plays*
    No, joking aside, I really take an interest in history (not train history, just general, mostly political and war-based history), but if would be really, really interesting to see inside the Prussian nation before it's dissolution.
    I would buy this, 100%.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2021
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  3. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Me too. The story of this line is very much tied to both WW1 and WW2, and it played an important role in both. It could really offer a nice snapshot of life on tracks before the age of world wars.
     
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  4. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Some of these steam locomotives would actually work in post-war West Germany therefore add them to RRO RSN HRR HMA Main Spessart Bahn SKA Hanseatic Main Line Hamburg Lübeck and the former German Democratic Republic East Germany Rapid Transit . All the West German routes got electrified in the post war years 1950-1966 on 15kv 16.7hz except for Hamburg-Lübeck 2008 that meant you can use these steam locomotives on West German routes and the East German Rapid Transit Leipzig area.
     
  5. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    That's a very nice suggestion, I like your idea
     
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  6. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I have edited the post, so it now goes into more detail on the DLC options.
     
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  7. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    Not really interested in the route, but do enjoy railway history and really enjoyed reading your suggestion.
     
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  8. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    No problem, I do enjoy writing these aswell :).
     
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  9. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    A German video showing footage of a preserved P 8 and G 10 (in the state they were in in the 1960s), running in front of historical trains. This should give you some idea of how they would look like running :).
     
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  10. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    These Prussian P8 & G10 are also used in West Germany during the post-war years before the electrification of HMA HRR RRO RSN SKA and Main Spessart Bahn Aschaffenburg-Gemünden that means both German steam locomotives can run there as layers. Lastly Hanseatic League main line Hamburg-Lübeck pre diesel locomotive era. Hanseatic League Mainline Hamburg-Lübeck electrification occurred in 2008 post German reunification although P8 & G10 can run there as a rail tour.
     
  11. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they could make very good rail tours! The P 8 and G 10 shown here were on rail tours in Bavaria. One P 8 has been preserved in a fully original state, it would be lovely to have one or two rail tour services on some of the German routes. HMA and SKA are less likely because IRL they are too busy for railtours, I'd suggest adding them to RSN and maybe MSB, both of which are better fits for rail tours.
     
  12. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Main Spessart Bahn Aschaffenburg-Gemünden makes sense for the P8 & G10 because in the pre electrification era they were used for Through trains Frankfurt Hbf to München Hbf via Aschaffenburg-Gemünden Würzburg Main Spessart Bahn routing. HRR Duisburg Hbf Bochum makes sense too because there is a Steam Railway museum at Bochum. Wiki link is https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bochum_Dahlhausen_Railway_Museum. Which means one of the P8 & G10 timetable services involves starting the P8& G10 from the Bochum Steam Railway museum yard onto the HRR line.
     
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  13. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Great idea, I completely forgot about the museum at Bochum, they do have a P 8 in their collection (in working order, though in DRG paint scheme with wind deflectors). That would be a really good idea!
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
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  14. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely correct and for Dovetail Games they need to complete the section between Essen Steele Ost to the Bochum Steam Railway Museum with the Prussian G10 & P8 being layered in from Küstrin-Berlin railway steam era. That should permit the Rail Tour start and end point in time table service complete with Prussian era coaches layered in from Berlin Küstrin or a modern DB IC coach coming with HRR DB BR101 DLC. To save money for new players why not combine HRR with Berlin Küstrin Steam era and title that bundle as Ruhr Valley & Berlin Steam pack that way players don't need to pay €50 for both route separately. Instead pay €25 for both routes to play German steam & electric locomotives.
     
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  15. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I love the looks of those German steam locomotives. There's something about the design I like more than the UK steam locomotives. Would love to see a German steam route. Heritage routes could be fun, but a historical route would be even better! :)
     
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  16. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    This video shows of a preserved Prussian P8, this one being restored to its original condition. The video is in German, but even the non-German speakers can enjoy the great footage of the P8 hauling historical railtours.
     
  17. elaineedwards2013

    elaineedwards2013 Active Member

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    Another excellent suggestion. I do love these type of locomotives. It reminds of the steam locomotives in the 1964 film “The Train”.
     
  18. Silent Hunter

    Silent Hunter New Member

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    Like this idea as well - I've been on that route in real life. Now a DMU operation, but there's a nice heritage line that links to it.
     
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  19. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    It's interesting that a once so important line serves mostly local traffic nowadays, but that's of course due to the lines complex and interesting history.
     
  20. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Another German video about this section of track in modern times. It also gives a bit of History.
     
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  21. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    For those of you interested in more of the Ostbahn's rich and varied history as one of Europe's most important railway lines, I suggest checking out ostbahn.eu, a site dedicated to the Preußische Ostbahn.
     

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