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Proposal And Content Just My Opinion

Discussion in 'Content Suggestions & Proposals' started by ChooChooKeith, Dec 1, 2018.

  1. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Member

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    I would love to see Train Simulator to be more of a simulator. and here are somethings that might be able to ehance that experience.
    1. on the Hud and this depends on what mode this would be in. I would say Quck Drive or FreeRoam.
    A button that would allow the driver to bring up destinations that he wants to goto. You could select these and the simulator would draw that path or allow the player to have control of junctions.
    2. In Cab Announcements would be a nice feature to play with as your driving that train and stopping at different places.
    3. Name Boards (Digital) that would display that a train is arriving. As the train passes the trigger which is on the track it would Trgger on the display that the train is approaching.
    These are just realistc type things that are actually on real trains.
    4 . A button to change destination signs on the train. This needs to be (In Game) not in the editor.
     
  2. Railfan722

    Railfan722 Well-Known Member

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    A few trains do have automated displays and announcements - the class 350 that comes with the WCML: Trent Valley has one. The problem is that there has to be a marker that you place that plays the announcement, plus a script that tells the train, "Right - I've just hit this marker, so I need to go to this line of code which references a sound file and animation and hope it all works." There has to be a sound clip for every station, so on longer routes the download size would be massive. For station boards, it's the same problem except it physically can't be done - assets can't reference service names or anything like that. These would all be nice things to have, but some of them just aren't doable in the game right now.
     
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  3. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Member

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    The annoucnements would not take much if you use compressed audio such as Mp3 or even windows audio. For the Station boards its called using triggers which are on real railways. The train crosses a trigger point which then activates a Board on the platform that the train is arriving. and this should be for all trains not just a couple. These two things could be done on an update by DTG.
     
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  4. Railfan722

    Railfan722 Well-Known Member

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    Again, some of the things you want physically can't be added to the game. Destination boards would have to call up the full details and name of every single service, then work out when they arrive, how late or early they are, and all sorts of other things. The game physically can't handle that - the core engine is almost 10 years old, and there's only so much that DTG can to to it. I don't think that it would be even realistic for that to be a dream, let alone a reality. Announcements are hard to make, as well. I'm no scripter, but you'd have to set up tons and tons of function calls for markers that reference sound files. Sound files have to be in either .wav or .dav form (no mp3s) which take up large amounts of space. DTG spend a lot of time on the scripting for every train, whether you realize it or not. Announcements are only extra work for marginal benefit.
     
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  5. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Member

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    I can do it for Trainz. this is a simulator so why not make realistic. DTG has made it more of a game. I made announcements for Trainz and put it in the route. not that hard. Mp3 can be used and less space. Flight simulator is the same way. People said food trucks and push back vehicles could not be done and also the moveable ramps. well they now have that. so there are ways to these things. Just takes some effort. but I notice everyone that i have talked to seems to think that the train simulator editor is the most powerful tool but it cannot handle things like announcements and yet Trainz can? On the other hand the Arrival boards are not there yet on trainz but I have seen some things like subway stations that have it. By the way they do have annoucements in the the new ICE 3 train for Train Simulator 2019, read the descriptions. How did they do it for that model.
     
  6. Railfan722

    Railfan722 Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, some trains have announcements. If the developer has put in the time to rig up announcements, there's either a marker, or far more likely, you'll have to bring up the functions yourself. I'm not entirely certain what the call is for the ICE 3M, but it'll look something like
    "function=OnEvent(Event)
    then"
    or something like that, anyway. The TS editor is insanely powerful - Trainz doesn't even have frogs and moving points on switches for the vast majority of track. The actual simulation engine under the hood of Train Simulator is far better suited at physics - a 500 car train accelerates at a realistic speed. What you don't seem to get is this - announcements are based on the train, not the route. If a locomotive of MU has announcements, then it will probably say in the manual. Not every engine has announcements, and it will only work with certain destinations that you need to do yourself. You can't just expect it to work. We seem to be chasing each other around the same tree; every time I think I've explained it clearly enough, you still don't seem to get it. Each game, simulation, whatever you want to call it, is good at different things. Trainz is great at a model railroad simulator, not so much the actual simulation. Train Simulator fails miserably at model railroads, but is great at real-world routes. I an reasonably certain that MP3 files can't be used - the engine just can't read them. A lot of things can be done it TS with the right scripting - for crying out loud, there's a working mail bag system that comes with the GWR Saint that allows for bags of mail to be caught in nets and steam cranes to pick up derailed engines.
     
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  7. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Member

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    Its not the 3M its the DB BR 407 or ICE 3 which has another name but its on DTG LIVE. You just made the point on model railroad which is basically what Train simulator is but with a lot of detail. Building routes is model railroading. on top of the fact that this is more of a game then a simulation. Trainz while again is model railroad but has a way better editor can do a lot of things including the annoucements and the use of triggers which for simulator ought ot be able to do things. I have seen a lot of commments on the Train simulator and a lot of people do not like it. Postiive things Train simulator has great model trains that are realistic. Where it lacks is so many things. Here is another example. They put out Layouts and everything but people run on the tracks, doors dont open sometimes on scenerios. These are little things that should have been tested before release. Trainz 2019 is coming out soon and it looks realy good with a lot more detail. My problem with trainz are the train models. Doors that dont open is one thing they have a problem with on some trains. Train simulator should never have that problem. These are things I have observed by using both simulators. and like I said on comparing the Flight SIm to it as far as realism. Train simulator has a long way to go still.
     
  8. Railfan722

    Railfan722 Well-Known Member

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    And yet, in some ways, the TS engine is more capable. Graphically, I think the TS engine is better than the Trainz engine. Whatever Trainz uses, I don't think it supports point lights yet, does it? Screenshot_Sherman Hill 1950s_41.09100--104.93404_11-13-04.jpg An example of what can be done with the TS engine even in the wide expanses of Wyoming.

    There's a massive difference in model railroading and real-world railroading. My own layout, the PRR Consolidated Lines, is small-ish for a layout - it's a two track main line that does a loop around an uneven dogbone shape with a coal mine, steel mill, and industrial park. But the prototype it's based off of, the real ex-PRR Harrisburg Subdivision, is much longer, has far more industry, and is generally more alive. Building a real world route in a video game is not model railroading, because the distances that are modelled are tens or hundreds of miles long, compared to the, say, 1,000 foot loop of track that is a model railroad.
     
  9. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Member

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    Cool man on the route. Trainz does have lights. The New version though has a lot more then it had before as I have the 2012 version. I created a route on there that is DART. www.dart.org. I did the whole route on there using the assets that they have. I looked at some videos of the 2019 version of Trainz and its a massive imporvement. Train Simulator is using the UNREAL editor which is used in 1st person shooter games. Trainz uses a content management system for the assets so that if you do model or want to create assets you can. I made my own annoucements for my route for every station and works great. I use a sound trigger which I download from their download station. My route covers about 30 miles but it has 4 lines. Green, Red, Orange and Blue which I did not complete yet. I wish I could model the trains though but just dont have the tools. so I use the cityrail trains in my route. I like doing the routes virtually. I have a HO gauge train and N which I made a little loop route but its nothing compared to what you create with these editors.
     
  10. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    To be fair on this one, IF the dispatcher was written in a particular way and IF this could be linked to the displays which worked in a particular way then it wouldn't be that hard to list the stops of a particular consist (obviously minus that stop in particular) or a "Train does not stop here" if the station is not on the consist.
    Unfortunately as anyone who's tried to write a scenario for TS knows, the dispatcher has a mind of it's own and doesn't work properly a lot of the time.

    With regards to the station announcements, this would take a hell of a lot of work recording all the possible train station names. Indeed the budget for this in real life is probably in the hundreds of thousands, and would it add that much to an immersive driving experience? To my mind not really
     
  11. 749006

    749006 Active Member

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    [1] In Quick Drive you already do this - You chose the Start Location and the End Location, neither of which needs to be at the start of end of the route and You decide which stations You want to stop at or not stop.

    [2] Real British Trains Don't have Cab announcements as this would be distracting for the driver - depending on the train you can hear announcements in the background but if you were moving along in poor weather conditions looking for a signal or speed restriction the last thing you want is the guard coming over the PA to tell you which the next station is, where you change for and other Non-Important information.
    Watch a Cab ride on YouTube and see listen to what the driver actually hears.

    German Trains the Announcements can be heard in the Cab as the Driver tells the Passengers which side the platform is - why they cannot work that out themselves id beyond me. You can get Scenarios off RailSim.de which make announcements as you approach the station - that is done by having a pre-recorded audio file that is set to play at a certain time in the scenario. Nothing stopping You doing the same in Your TS2019

    [3] If you are on a Station this might be helpful - if you are driving a train you won't see it when passing at speed.
    Most of us tend to be driving the train.

    Peter
     
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  12. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Member

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    no you cannot do that in quick drive. and not all destinations are in the Quck drive menu. I was mainly saying that this should be in game not before you start like it is in TS2019. I drive mostly the German trains so I dont hear the cab annoucements so not sure what you are refering to there. There are two spaces that are blank where the incons are on the HUD and I would make a button for the annoucements to fire off. This supposedly is in the New ICE3. Just wish it was in the trains that I have BR DB 442 Talent 2 or the all of the ICE trains. I can do these things in Trainz but not TS2019.
     
  13. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    I think that you need to get a little more involved with TS2019 before thinking it can’t do things. It is true that not every route has every QuickDrive programmed. But if you go to the editor you’ll find the ability to build any quick drive combination you want (including for example out of marshaling yards), with any consist variation you want (allowing of course that only electric trains run in so powered tracks).

    The TS editor needs a little learning, the documentation isn’t great but there’s plenty of info online. Quick Drive scenarios are probably the simplest of all the scenarios and a good place to start.

    One of the great things about TS2019 is there’s a lot of flexibility in what you can do, something that TSW (which DOES use the Unreal engine) doesn’t have at this time.

    As for Trainz I’ve owned and I’ve never been that impressed. I came upon TSxxxx after owning Trainz and it took me no time at all to make up my mind that I wasn’t going back. TSxxxx isn’t perfect, and it needs some work (and money) but in terms of immersion despite its age it still makes Trainz look like a model railroad.

    As for cab announcements that might be your thing and other people have an idea of what they’d like added. However I think most TS2019 users are still basking in the unexpected update to 64 bit. If you knew how to use the editor, and if you knew what 64 bit now allowed you to do in terms of populating scenarios, you probably might not get so focused on announcements. Nothing wrong in content suggestions though, just dig around a little first.

    Incidentally I’m a relative newbie with 500 hours. Once over the initial learning curve you’ll be amazed at what you can do.
     
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  14. 749006

    749006 Active Member

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    So when you drive the scenario from say Hamburg to Hanover how does the system know where the train is going to stop in Quick Drive or even which way you are going in Free Roam? Do you have an announcement for every station in the game?

    Have a look at this Scenario - https://rail-sim.de/forum/wsif/index.php/Entry/4395-Fahrt-auf-der-S5-Teil1/
    It contains Announcements which sound as you pass a marker in the track before the station.
    The sound files are DAV which the game plays as it does for other sounds.
    But this is a Point to Point Scenario where the stations are known in advance - it would not work in Quicjk Drive or Free Roam as the stations you might decide to stop at are not known by the game.

    Peter
     
  15. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Member

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    two ways of doing annoucements.
    1. it would be a key stroke that you use inside the cab. or a button next to the phone in the cab which is where they do it anywas.
    2. if you are talking about hte platforms. That would involve Triggers. as the train approaches it hits a trigger which then first off the annoucements.
     
  16. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I think the issues are mainly beyond just where and how to trigger the audio...
    I live in Gillingham, Kent. The announcements for the Thameslink services for London and beyond would be 34 stations long. The station list is read out every stop obviously minus one
    You then have the services to Victoria along the Chatham main line, which share two of those stops, but then have five, seven or up to twelve stops in total (again read out at every stop with diminishing numbers)
    You also have other London termini including Cannon Street, Blackfriars etc
    And that's only westbound... Eastbound you have services terminating at Rainham, Faversham, Canterbury, Dover, Ramsgate and Broadstairs

    Then you have the realism of the station announcements, for instance the "change here for" messages...

    So the complexity of recording the announcements, getting them tied to the dispatcher and then triggered appropriately is a bit more than "stick a button next to the phone"
     
  17. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Member

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    I agree. just need other ideas that might make it work.. maybe another way. its just brainstorming things.
     
  18. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I already did that :)
     
  19. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Member

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    those are more for platforms and yes they take longer to create. I am really talking about what the engineer does when the train come to a stop. its not all trains but I know DART in Dallas, Texas does have annoucements inside the train has it goes on the route. Could Train simulator have a button that fires these off if you want. I just think the effect is good when your streaming live or even making a video. these are just ideas. please expand on it if there are other ways of doing these things.
     
  20. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    One thing you need to take into consideration is that each train, or piece of DLC isn’t just a cookie cutter item reskinned. Different developers have made decisions balancing off features against efficiency.

    Some trains have some features, others have them left off. Excluding the interior view of the train is one of the more common devices to free up resources for elsewhere. So, that’s going to be one issue for your idea. You’ll be trying to apply interior sounds where there isn’t any interior beyond the cab. Even in that case having interior announcements in say a UK Class 47 diesel is going to offend the purists (including me). Plus I’ll guess that some DLC might not appreciate having any extra load placed on it and would respond with unfortunate consequences.

    So then the theory becomes that a developer could include the feature in their DLC, where they have the appropriate interior. Then the issue becomes that there are so many routes (including freeware routes and additions) that your feature would have to ‘read’. Again, you’re not going to have the consistency you need there to make it work.

    Then again the program needs to know where you’re stopping. On a free roam it doesn’t have a clue where you’re going. On a quick drive it knows where you’re going to but not where you’re stopping on the way. On a standard or timetabled scenario it knows your stations stops so that helps but then there would need to be lists for fast services, stopping services and even irregular ones. And then it has to deal with the situation that as you return from making your tea your service zooms through the stop you were meant to be making.

    Now could you have a program that effectively read a scenario (and preferably a timetabled one) and see the coded stops and platforms - FSX has some examples of things like that with weather engines and complex FMS - But I’ve not seen anything like that applied to TS. My guess it that the existing engine doesn’t support that kind of activity and I doubt that there’s any appetite to amend it to support features like this.

    Now your idea might make a video slightly more impressive, but when you unbundle the problem it’s a huge undertaking for a small thing, if it’s even possible.
     
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  21. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Member

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    Good points thanks for that. The annoucements dont have to be automated. which would refer to platform annoucements.
    I am suggesting more of the engineer having the control like in a real train. I have mentioned the Icons on the driver HUD. There are two spaces for what ever the developer would want to add. I thought filling that with a speaker button that would fire off annoucements when you want them to, that way you have control of what happens in the environment that you are driving. Does that make more sense? Platfform annoucements are different then In Train annoucements.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  22. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    I’m not sure that in train announcements, even with pressing a button aren’t more complex than platform ones. I’m not an expert on contempoary train announcements as I only get to ride trains a few times a year when I return to Europe (usually the UK) for vacation.

    One immediate thought Is that train announcements are usually structured by the type of train. So wouldn’t a light rail system just announce the destination and next stop whereas a long distance train would announce all of the stopping points?

    Presumably there’s an announcement coming into the station and on long distance trains that can be some minutes before arrival. You’re pressing the button, but how does it identify the station? Back to reading the scenario or are you anticipating some proximity rule - in which case how do you make it say Paddington rather than say Royal Oak which might be the next platform? If you want realism shouldn’t there be connecting announcements? They’re not uncommon - ‘change here for the Barnstaple line’ for example.

    Then don’t some trains have announcements once they leave the station, again that difference in listing stopping points based on the train type?

    I think if you’re brainstorming more closely defining the rules of the process is your first step.
     
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  23. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Member

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    Yes it would depend on the train and route. Here is a good example of annoucement flow. goto www.DART.org Or on youtube and look up DART trains to see how they work. I am getting the main idea from here. Now Europe is very different in this concept so yes it would change if you are doing european routes. But if I wanted to do the DART routes BLUE GREEN ORANGE RED Lines. Having the annoucements would give it some realism.

    Now specifically for the annoucements that would be "IN TRAIN" via the button I was talking about. If you press the button then a menu of annoucements could pop up. you then select that annoucement at the time you want to fire it off and play it. The third party program I think called informator if I am correct on the name activates the sound by a key on the key board that is assigned to that annoucement. Now while that is third party why could they not have that inside the train. I understand individual developers for each Train model would have to be involved but why not make that happen in some way. What I would really like to test though is how they did this for the New ICE train that is out which also used on the Frankfurt route to Karlsruhe. its $19.99 right now which is a little pricey. but hopefully that price will come down so maybe I can get it and check it out.
    This is the manual for the New ICE3 Train that has IN Train Spoken Annoucements.
    https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/ste...BR407_ICE3_VelaroD_Manual_EN.pdf?t=1542030104
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  24. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    No, in the UK on modern units trains have LED displays in the carriages showing all the remaining calling points, displaying upcoming stations and other information, and on the units I've been on this year (Class 465,466,700, 375 etc around North Kent and into London) you would have an announcement such as "The next station stop is Gravesend, alight here for North West Kent college and ferry services to Tilbury", and on departure "Welcome to this SouthEastern train to London Charring Cross, calling at Greenhithe, Dartford, Abbey Wood, Woolwich Arsenal, London Bridge, Waterloo East and London Charring Cross"

    Obviously the new Thameslink ones would be reading out every single station of the 33 between Rainham and Luton at Rainham, and then knock one off at each station, so I am not talking about the platform announcements, but the in train ones.

    Germany may work differently of course
     
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  25. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Member

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    Can anyone tell me why Signals go red in a session when no trains are on that specific track? I went to the workshop to down load a route midnight run from KOLN to Dusseldorf. Two signals show red and I cannot get TAB to work for giving permission. Just asking if anyone has had this issue thanks
     
  26. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Yes I have had this issue on many many lines. Several reasons I've had it.
    Points incorrectly set (both on and off route)
    An error in the dispatcher where someone sets a consist to terminate at that point
    An error in the dispatcher where someone sets a consist to cross that point with a high priority, even if that train then pauses somewhere else to let you past
    I'm sure there will be others.
     
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  27. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Member

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    Thanks for the help
     
  28. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Member

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    I have a question for you that I did not ask before. What about triggers? Can TS do this? a Trigger at least in the other game is a script that you can edit to point to different things so when the train crosses that Trigger point it activates the script or action. Please let me know if you have seen this or not. Just wondering.
     
  29. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    With scripting you can do certain triggers, but I don't know if location is one of them. There are several Matt P scripting youtube tutorials so check those out
     
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  30. 749006

    749006 Active Member

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    I'm not sure if it's the same thing but some Scenario Writers put a Trigger in a Scenario that forces an Action when you pass it.
    In one of the Scenarios for London to Peterborough a message appears to tell the driver the signal ahead is defective and to TAB past it.
    I have some German Scenarios where passing a Marker/Trigger causes an Announcement to be made.
    These are Scenario Specific as you might wish for an announcement for a Station you are calling at but not for stations you don't call at.

    Peter
     
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  31. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Member

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    Thank you both for the input. If triggers can be used then there maybe ways to bring in audio. In the program Trainz there is a green icon used as a trigger and in the editor you place it on the track so for this specific kind of trigger you would place the trigger before the station you are stopping at. It would then point to a audio file which would have an annoucement and when the train crosses it fires that audio off. Thank you again for the help..
     
  32. 749006

    749006 Active Member

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