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Pzb Question

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Corvan, Dec 17, 2017.

  1. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    At the end of the first scenario for Rapid Transit you arrive at Leipzig-Messe and then you're directed to move into the Head Shunt.

    The signal in front of me was red but when I checked it on the map it was marked as green. I didn't notice any call-on signals anywhere and I'm not sure if they're used in Germany.

    Unsure of what to do I proceeded slowly and held down the PZB override button. Now maybe I didn't hold it down long enough but the brakes activated anyway.

    What was I supposed to do there?
     
  2. Karl456

    Karl456 Member

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    As far as I know, you have to ask for permission, if you want to cross a signal which shows "red". But when I say "red", I mean "completely red". If there are two small white lights under the large red one, then the signal shows "shunting allowed", so you needn't ask for permission to cross the signal, if you are going to shunt (But when you're not shunting you have to ask).
    But in every case you want to go over a red signal, no matter if it shows "completely red" or "shunting allowed", you have to use the PZB override button, otherwise the train will apply emergency brakes. You have to press AND HOLD the PZB override button, at least until the front of the train has reached the signal. But to avoid an emergency brake application, it is highly recommended to hold the button even longer, approximately until the front is five to ten meters behind the signal. Then you may be sure that the PZB magnet has passed the signal magnet. Both magnets interact and cause an emergency stop, if the signal shows "red" and the PZB button is not pressed at the moment both magnets interact. The PZB override button turns of the PZB magnet of the trains and avoids an interaction of the PZB and signal magnet so that there won't be an emergency brake.
    This is all I know about the topic, please correct me, if I am false or explained things technically incorrect.
    Good luck for the next time you try to pass a red signal!:)
     
  3. Piussi

    Piussi Well-Known Member

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    i have asked permission from the dispatcher. Nothing changed but i could go trough the red light.
     
  4. Karl456

    Karl456 Member

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    Well, that's a success, although it is a small one.:)
    I'm not completely sure if the "ask-for-permission" function has already been implemented in whole and if it works the way it should... Fairly often I get no or just a senseless answer from the dispatcher. I hope that DTG is working on that?:|
     
  5. AlexNL

    AlexNL Active Member

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    I once had similar hopes.

    Then Rapid Transit was announced (and released within a few weeks) along with a holiday update which seems to have broken more things than it fixed...
     
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  6. Piussi

    Piussi Well-Known Member

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    I only get a reply after asking two times.. a bit like the dispatch from or bus company :D
     
  7. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Active Member

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    No, not really. The PZB will not be turned off. The PZB override (normally PZB command 40 .. its not a override function but a command procedure told from the dispatcher) does not deactivate any magnets or functions of the PZB. It just activates the command 40 procedure to pass a active 2000hz magnet with a max of 40kph. You need to press this button while running over the active 2000 and you will get a white lamp in the cab with "Befehl 40" on it. If that lamp lits up you can release the button. Pressing PZB Befehl after the magnet gives you a braking, releasing it to early gives you a braking.
     
  8. Karl456

    Karl456 Member

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    Thank you Maik for your detailed explanation.:)
    Unfortunately, in real life I'm not working with trains, nor someone ever explained me all functions and systems of a train. Everything that I know about trains, I read on the Internet (I'm quite glad that there are people who share their train experiences with the world and write about the functionality of those incredible machines) or know it from several years of TS20xx (and now TSW). I'm fairly sure that I've already read about the PZB, I had to because before I had never understood its system and just turned it off to avoid stress and anger. Today I'm happy that I know what to do at which time to operate PZB correctly and avoid emergency stops. But I don't know all the details of what happens when I push PZB override and so on. I know, which lamp flashes when and I've got a list in which I wrote, which PZB mode allows which speeds at which status of control (1000 Hz, 500 Hz, restrictive mode,....).
    I hope that I'll remember your detailed explanation, but if not, I now know who to ask.;)
     
  9. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    The Rapid Transit manual covers PZB on pages 10 and 11:

    Start Program
    From a standing start, with PZB enabled, the driver eases the combined handle
    forwards towards a green signal. When the speed reaches 5 km/h the PZB
    system switches to its “Start Program” and flashes the 85 icon, putting a 45 km/h
    restriction message on the screen. For the time being, the driver is limited to 45
    km/h by the PZB Monitoring system, even if the line speed is higher.
    The driver may now choose to release from PZB monitoring by pressing PZB
    Release (The END key), if they do this then the restrictions will be lifted and the
    driver can now proceed up to line speed.
    The train is limited to 165 km/h under PZB control, faster than this requires a more
    advanced system called LZB that is not available on the Talent 2. Should the driver
    exceed 165 km/h the system will automatically apply brakes to bring it back to
    within that speed.
    Stop Signal
    The driver observes that they are approaching a yellow signal. Within 4 seconds of
    passing that signal, the driver must press PZB Acknowledge (Page Down, or B on
    the controller), and on doing this a 1000hz icon will appear along with an 85 km/h
    restriction message.
    The driver must now slow to 85 km/h within 23 seconds, or the emergency brakes
    will apply.
    After 700 meters the 1000hz light will go out and the driver should now observe
    the condition of the upcoming signal – is it still red? Or has it returned to green? If
    it has returned to green, the driver has an opportunity now to press PZB Release
    (the END key) to clear the 85 km/h restriction and return to line speed. If the
    driver releases the restriction and then hits the next magnet because the upcoming
    signal is still red then the emergency brakes will apply.
    If the signal ahead is still at danger, the train will pass over the active 500hz
    magnet. This does not require an acknowledgement from the driver but the train
    must be travelling below 65 km/h as it passes over the magnet. It also imposes a
    further reduction to 45 km/h which must be completed within 153 meters.
    The driver should now pull up in front of the red signal. If the driver goes past the
    red signal, the system will be tripped by a 2000hz magnet which will always stop
    the train.
    An alternative approach to this red light could be that the driver has been given
    permission to pass it by the signaller. In this instance, the driver must slow to
    below 40 km/h and hold the Befehl40 Override button down (the DEL key) as they
    go over the 2000hz magnet, this prevents it from triggering the emergency brakes.
    [this much from p. 11; p. 12 includes a table that will not paste here correctly]
     

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