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[resolved] Get Rid Of Downvotes Already

Discussion in 'PC' started by Lombra, Dec 27, 2019.

  1. Lombra

    Lombra Active Member

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    What purpose does it serve, really? If you want, you can keep the feature that automatically hides posts that get a certain number of downvotes, as a form of self moderation, but don't make it public, then.

    Downvotes only introduces negativity to the community.

    People get annoyed or offended when someone else disagrees with them and shows it by clicking downvote, often demanding that they write a post to motivate their downvote. Strange reaction if you ask me, but that's beside the point.

    On the other hand, it's clear that there are a bunch of people who completely abuse the downvote function and use it to downvote anything posted by someone they dislike, regardless of what's posted.
     
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  2. JohnnyK98

    JohnnyK98 Active Member

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    I concur!
     
  3. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I quite like having it for those route suggestions where people have put in zero effort and just gone with, "I want this route".
     
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  4. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    So If you say I want xxx route because I think it's so good to have in TSW

    1: You get upvote for them who agrees with you
    and downvote in 2 caces
    1: The People who do not want it
    2: And people who don't like how you write.

    Yes i want downvote away.
    you get even downvote if the people don't think dovetail does a good job if you write a text about editor etc
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2019
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  5. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    If someone writes a well reasoned post about a route they'd like, including details about the route and trains, maybe a few pictures, then I wouldn't downvote it even if it wasn't a route I'd want. If someone posts "Make WCML" with no other info, I'd downvote regardless of the fact that I'd quite like that route.
     
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  6. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    The problem is people use the downvotes to hide themselves. They do not offer any reason as to why they downvoted and that is where the issue is. I personally think that it is time to do away with the downvotes and everyone would have offer there points as to why they do not agree.
     
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  7. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    In this case we should get rid of upvotes as well. I don't see disagreement as something inherently negative.
     
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  8. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Then if you want to go that far then there would be no use for the useful either. Which in that case than everyone would be forced to actually type out a response. Which I would not be opposed to it would far better if everyone had there say, and possibly promote a better community.
     
  9. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    How about switching to the following three choices: like, don't like, and interesting? That is, if opinion votes are desirable at all. Perhaps anyone who wishes to respond should have to take the time and trouble to submit a written statement that may or may not include a possibly contentious opinion.
     
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  10. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    The way I personally look at it, upvotes and downvotes are a way of saying "Yeah I agree." or "No, I don't agree." without having to type it in a post.
     
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  11. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    And the funny thing is, they can't even hide themselves. It says in your notifications who upvotes and downvotes your posts and the public can see who did it if they click "List" next to the upvotes and downvotes on a post.
     
  12. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    Yes here we have 2 ways to down vote.
    It fills no function because you don't know why they down vote. Is it the content you dont like or how he/she writing or is this person angry on Dovetail.
     
  13. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Active Member

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    When I click on "List", I get a small box and I can move the sliders to some blob of a symbol in the middle.

    "The UpVoter formerly known as Prince?"

    There is no way I can see who cast which votes on a post other than through my notifications for my posts.
     
  14. Lombra

    Lombra Active Member

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    That box is completely broken and has been for as long as I can remember. You need to scroll the bottom scroll bar all the way to the right. Then you'll see a vertical scroll bar along the right edge of the inner frame. Scroll that all the way to the bottom, and then scroll the bottom horisontal bar back to the left. If a post has multiple types of feedback, each type willl have its own inner box and vertical scroll bar, which will be placed somewhere in the middle along the bottom horisontal scroll bar. Simples. ;)
     
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  15. stujoy

    stujoy Active Member

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    All you need is ten people to disagree with you enough to downvote your post and the post gets hidden. It doesn't matter if the content of the post is actually okay or not, it gets hidden from view. Forum moderators should be looking out for posts that shouldn't be seen, not ten random members with overactive mouse buttons. There's always the 'report' function for members to report inappropriate behaviour.
     
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  16. Lombra

    Lombra Active Member

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    Certainly. I think the ability to leave feedback directly on a post without having to type a post of your own is great in theory. Being able to upvote especially is certainly a useful metric for the community, and saves people from having to type pointless "I agree" posts.

    Downvotes on the other hand are clearly only cause for hostility. There wouldn't be a problem if people didn't take downvotes personally or abused the feature.

    I don't agree with the idea that one should be obligated to motivate their downvote. People are going to disagree with you whether they click the button to prove it or not. Alas, that is not really the focus of this thread.
     
  17. Callum B.

    Callum B. Member

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    Damn, this thread is hilarious. Thanks for the laugh, you guys.
     
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  18. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I think that would be fair idea, I would go for something like that.
     
  19. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Well-Known Member

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    How about agree, disagree, informative..
    Less emotionally laden ;)
     
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  20. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    I think it’s perfectly fine as it is.
     
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  21. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    Somebody got downvoted. Isn’t that what’s wrong with people these days? Everyone is turning into a snowflake.
     
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  22. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Why do you think of it as hilarious?
     
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  23. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    I like that idea. Agree, Disagree, Questionable, Funny, Helpful, Good/Bad Advice, ... so many attributes one could give a posting. Up and down should remain in existance nonetheless, for backwards compatiblity as well as for cases where a post meets more than one criterium in either the good or bad area.
     
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  24. Callum B.

    Callum B. Member

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    The thought of grown adults being unable to handle disagreement or contention to the point where it necessitates the revision of the like/dislike system, on nothing less than a train simulation forum, just tickles my bones. Discussing the emotional baggage or connotations of voting pairs (i.e., like/dislike, upvote/downvote, agree/disagree) is a very privileged problem to have. There appears to be a faction of forumers who believe that it is the responsibility, no, the obligation of the downvoter to state their precise reason for said downvote in a typed response. However, this not only creates redundancy, but negates the entire purpose of the downvote entirely. Similar to an upvote, a downvote is a quick and accessible expression of agreement/approval or disagreement/disapproval from the supporting/opposing party. If the accessible options are removed in favour of forcing users to type their opinions, we will either experience a lack of forum interaction from those too lazy or inconvenienced to reply, or we will experience an increase of low-effort posts which will effectively amount to spam in an otherwise invested discussion.

    Overall, I find the discussion (particularly about the emotional baggage of the language used) to be a pleasant reminder that we all live very privileged lives. :)
     
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  25. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    I see your point, but frankly if someone disagrees with me I'd actually like to know why. After all, chances are greater than zero that I am in fact wrong. Missing something, whatever. It has less to do with emotional baggage to me than with a culture of discussion, or lack there of. Unexplained downvotes most times come across as just screaming and squeaking. However if you tell me what's wrong with my point, we might be able to continue from there.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
  26. Callum B.

    Callum B. Member

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    Unfortunately there is no way to ensure that any random user that downvotes your (other others') posts vocalises their concerns, regardless of whether or not there is a downvote button. On the bright side, you can see it as their loss that their argumentative position is left without an argument to support it. ;)
     
  27. Doomotron

    Doomotron Active Member

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    And that's why we want to get rid of it!
     
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  28. Lombra

    Lombra Active Member

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    I don't know that changing the wording to a more neutral one will change anything...

    As for the above posts; like Callum suggests, if someone were interested in motivating their downvote I'm sure they would do so. I would actually go one step further and say that all voting should be anonymous, if we're going to keep them. One shouldn't have to worry about getting called out for disagreeing with someone. The downside, of course, is that it makes it easier to abuse downvoting.
     
  29. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    How about I agree and You’re dumb
     
  30. Callum B.

    Callum B. Member

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    What do you mean? What is the net gain?
     
  31. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    If it’s like this here, imagine what it’s like at a modern University.

    “The uptick is too aggressive, I’d like a ‘jazz hands’ emoji instead to help keep me calm”.

    The system is fine as it is. So someone doesn’t agree with what you’ve written...so what? It’s their prerogative. If it really bothers you that much then you really need to have a word with yourself. If you really really must change it, make it such that any downvote must have an accompanying comment as to why.

    I literally can’t believe a thread about something so small fry has grown this big.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
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  32. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Well-Known Member

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    This thread sounds like the United Nations discussing an important issue.
     
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  33. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I do downvote sometimes although try not too and will try even harder not too. However I tend to give a downvote if a post appears to be just some glib rant or rude/offensive.

    I am not bothered if someone downvotes me, in fact I often see a downvote as good as an upvote depending on who has given it or why!

    I do wonder if the system is a good idea or what it achieves though to be honest but can take it or leave it.
     
  34. Manclion

    Manclion Well-Known Member

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    Australia is burning and we could be on the brink of WW3 and so-called adults are squabbling about a tick ✅ or a cross x on a forum about a train sim.
    Pathetic.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
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  35. Doomotron

    Doomotron Active Member

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    The system is abused, as explained previously. Let's say you don't like me very much. Even if you agreed with me on every post I've ever made, you can still downvote all of them. You aren't forced to explain why you don't like the post or why you downvoted (constructive criticism). It leaves the poster with the thought of "What did I do wrong?" which is not particularity useful for both parties. It's like being called to court and the defendant not knowing what crime he did, or his sentence. It's pointless.
     
  36. Manclion

    Manclion Well-Known Member

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    If you worry why a complete stranger puts a X on a post on a train sim forum you must be doing ok in life.
     
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  37. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Well-Known Member

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    If someone downvotes without leaving an explanation I tend to ignore it unless the reason for the downvote is obvious as in the case of toxic posts or rude ones. If its an idea post and it gets downvotes then its obvious its not a popular idea. I guess the point of my ramble is I tend to treat the system as context sensitive. If someone leaves a downvote and its not obvious why, itll be ignored :)
     
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  38. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    Conclusion: This whole thread needs a downvote. End of story.
     
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  39. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    There's yours! Now am I getting one too?
    (Sorry I coudln't resist) :D
     
  40. callumgrainger135

    callumgrainger135 New Member

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    Nor cud i
     
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  41. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    I see we're getting this topic bet to the seriousness it deserves!
     
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  42. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Please mods....lock this thread! ;)
     
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  43. Doomotron

    Doomotron Active Member

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    Lock this thread... Because you don't agree with it?
     
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  44. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. Mainly because it’s a load of old drivel.
     
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  45. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    Then don’t be in it. People are so entitled and fussy
     
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  46. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    Hi All,

    The Downvote option was meant as a means for someone to disagree with a post without having to get into a confrontational situation.

    We appreciate that for some individuals, it has and is being used other than intended and as a means to troll another user and, as this is a consistent complaint, we have therefore removed the option.

    Best, Steve
     
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  47. paulgregs

    paulgregs Member

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    Balls, I never got the chance to downvote anyone :(
     
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  48. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Boooooooooo! Bring back the downvotes!
     
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  49. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    That moment when you read that downvotes no longer exist and instinctively, first thing, move the mouse cursor toward the downvote bu... oh, yeah right...

    So we're basically communist now, disagreement just. Doesn't. Exist. Guess that means getting out the big guns in the future, writing an actual post explaining in detail why the other user is talking billshut. Big guns hurt more, and also make more noise that will disturb the neighbours, just sayin'...
     
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  50. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    Yeah against your post I have wanted to have that left ;).
    So glad it has disappeared. Now those who disagree with a post can comment (motivate) on why they disagree.
    Think now this forum is getting better and happier
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
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