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[resolved] Get Rid Of Downvotes Already

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Lombra, Dec 27, 2019.

  1. Dave C

    Dave C New Member

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    The reason is that the referenced images:
    Start with
    so unless the context they are used in overrides the size (like the bar at the bottom of posts) the size is ridiculously uselessly large. Since SVG images are vector based either the size doesn't belong there at all or should be a reasonable default so HTML context isn't forced to specify the size. It appears as if all uses other than the ones on the bottom of each post fail to specify a size.
    One way to see this is to bring up the ratings list pop-up and then either open your browsers JavaScript console and copy-paste this in:

    var x=document.getElementsByClassName("dark_postrating_header");var j=0;for(j=x.length-1;j>=0;j--){x[j].children[0].setAttribute("width","16")};

    Or use a bookmarklet like this:

    javascript: (function() {var x=document.getElementsByClassName("dark_postrating_header");var j=0;for(j=x.length-1;j>=0;j--){x[j].children[0].setAttribute("width","16")}})();

    Those just add in the missing width attribute (should also add a height attribute). The real fix is to change the *.svg files themselves.

    [Edit: forum markup messes with code like using an index variable i inside square brackets or using a colon before parentheses :( ]
    [Edit2: and further corrections dis-allowed:
    ]
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
  2. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree.





    (Useless, uninformative posts will always prevail, but now they'll spam and bump the post too. Either that or you'll get zero engagement. That's why there was a low-key button in the first place. Agree/Disagree/Helpful/Unhelpful would have been a better solution.) :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
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  3. Dave C

    Dave C New Member

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    -1
     
  4. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    +1
     
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  5. Dave C

    Dave C New Member

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    People misuse tools all the time¹. The correct solution isn't to remove/ban the tool but to address the misuse or for intelligent people not to get upset at the occasion person misusing a tool and deciding said tool needs to be removed from everyone.

    ¹ Such as the ability of an admin to use an admin tool to disable a useful forum feature and remove all previous downvotes?? ;)
     
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  6. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Yep. People are speeding in their cars? Running red lights? Delivering drugs in them? Using them as getaways after a robbery? BAN CARS!
     
  7. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Guest

    The Right to Freedom of Speech? I find it much more interesting to replace the word Rights with Responsibilities. Instead of a Right to Life, there is a responsibility to protect life, instead of a right to family life, there is a responsibility towards family life. And freedom of speech- a responsibility to exercise that freedom in a responsible manner. Its a subtle distinction, but which has an important consequence in removing the sense of entitlement. If you cannot fulfil those responsibilities, then your access to them can be curtailed as in thtead locking, bans etc. These are just the realities of life and the subtle lens shift I provide can hopefully allow those realities to become clearer ;)
     
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  8. Shukal

    Shukal Well-Known Member

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    I do think removing downvotes is the right choice. While sometimes useful for for example causing absolutely terrible content proposals to be hidden, very often they were just used by users to annoy eachother.
    I do think downvotes added very little and removing them will make the forum climate better.
     
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  9. -PjM-

    -PjM- Well-Known Member

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    Jolly good. New Year new start. Ring the changes etc.

    Possibly. Removing a negative and leaving only a positive option may well have some effect. We shall see.
     
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  10. Big Papi34

    Big Papi34 Well-Known Member

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    Time to make useless threads and THEN see if you really wanted the downvote away. Oh well it's gone now.
     
  11. Lombra

    Lombra Active Member

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    This all makes sense if the tool in question is an essential and useful one. I don't know that the ability to publically declare your unconditional disapproval is that. Neither is the "Like" button, but the difference is no one's going to use that to be mean or generally get annoyed by its use. Neither really contributes to a discussion, and if you wish to further discussion you may write a reply, at which point a vote function becomes redundant.
     
  12. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    I don't see what good removing the downvote option did. People can still say if they disagree with something or not. Oh wait let me guess, DTG is going to start blocking or banning anybody who disagrees with anything they say or do in the future. Yeah I can see that happening.
     
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  13. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    The issue with the downvote is that it's ambiguous. Let's take a toy gun for example. Some people could interpret a toy gun as a toy gun and some people could interpret it as a real gun. There's nothing wrong with real guns or toy guns, they can both serve a legitimate function, the real issue is the ambiguity. This why there are laws which say toy guns must be brightly coloured, to remove the ambiguity.

    The upvote has little ambiguity and is almost always interpreted as 'I agree with the sentiment of this post,' and people agreeing with an opinion is a natural part of human discourse. Downvotes on the other can be used to express disagreement with the opinion and they can also be used to signal a dislike for a member; They also withold the reason for the disagreement, which is very unnatural in human discourse; It's rare that people will just say 'I disagree' and then walk off when an opinion is expressed, they almost always provide some indication of why they disagree, challenge some aspect of the opinion or provide their own. This is what makes downvotes frustrating to many people.

    Overall I think it's good to remove it. Don't forget, having any sort of voting or rating system for posts is a relatively new thing and seems to have come from social media. If you go back 10-15 years ago, very few forums had any rating system, it was purely discussion.
     
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  14. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Not having been a fan of the removal initially, I gotta say you have a point, quite a few ones actually. That convinced me to change my view on the issue.
     
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  15. MillerPC

    MillerPC Active Member

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    And just like that, downvotes are gone!
     
  16. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Why haven't they done it then? If they did half the posters on here would be gone!
     
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  17. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    Some interesting viewpoints in here. Suffice to say, from our perspective, 85% of all complaints over the last year have been related to the downvote option. Of those, 90% are related to misuse/abuse of the option.

    We think for the most part, it's probably the wording, and as Digital Draftsman said above, it's too ambiguous and can be interpreted in a number of different ways. The rating system is actually a forum plugin which has very little configuration for us to play with - too limiting in my view.

    So for the timebeing, we'll see how we get on without it and if there is a need or a wider consensus we need to consider bringing it back - we'll look at other solutions and get your thoughts on how you feel it should work before going ahead.

    Best, Steve
     
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  18. Sintbert

    Sintbert Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Steve for finally killing those downvotes.

    I always see a Forum as a place for discussions and not for voting. And in a discussion a silent agreement with a like is completely fine, but a downvote doesn't help furthering the discussion. That's like the stubborn kid just saying nope, but not why. If you disagree with something then tell me why, bring forth your viewpoints and enrich the discussion.

    If you want to vote over something then create a poll.
     
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  19. paulgregs

    paulgregs Active Member

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    I'm a moderator on a football clubs unofficial forum (there isn't an official one) and we have 'likes' and 'dislikes'. It always struck me as odd how the amount of 'downvote' on here was so much greater than the 'dislike' seen on the football forum....

    I guess what Digital Draftsman is saying would go some way to explaining that....
     
  20. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    We could just start using the wrench button. That way everyone will live in smug satisfaction that their posts are always appreciated and useful, but we're secretly treating the two options as "You are correct / You are a tool" :D
     
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  21. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    A forum is just that, a place of discussion but there are many who do take everything said here very literally. A lot of the silly threads which say I want such route I just look at and have a laugh to myself. Some of you all do make me laugh as the wording on some responses are very apt! But some use this space to vent their frustrations, maybe the wife or partner spoke to them about playing too much Train sim or spending too much money on Alan Thomson, or watching too much Squirrel and his nuts; so they'll log on here as this is the only way to vent out their frustrations; bit like the manager at work who comes in, in a foul mood to spread it around the office.

    This to me is downtime, not downvote time or lets put someone down for having an idea or opinion. It is ambiguous or to break it down 'I am bigger than you''. Not needed, I concur with the person who started the thread and all who's given their tuppence.
     
  22. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, couldn’t resist ;-)
     
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  23. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Damn I should have patented that one :D
     
  24. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Surprised it took that long! :D
     
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  25. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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  26. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    As this forum is privately owned, freedom of speech does not apply.
     
  27. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Guest

    I didnt say it did, but your legal advice is most welcome. Mine was more a general, philosophical musing on forum behaviour.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2020
  28. BRD

    BRD Well-Known Member

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    IMO it is good that the downvotes are gone. Not that it bothered me, but I completely agree with what Jorgen says. :)
     
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  29. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    The forum is a nicer place with the ignore button as well, It didn’t start off like this though so I wonder what’s the frustrations.

    If it was bad from the start I wouldn’t of signed up to chat
     
  30. Thelonius16

    Thelonius16 Active Member

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    Every time this thread makes it to the top of the page I think someone is complaining about Downton Abbey.
     
  31. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    DownTown Games - see what I did there, i’ll get my anorak
     
  32. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    That's reasonable, but not to everyone -- especially those who seem to use these votes as weapons against their supposed enemies. As ol' orange-hair likes to say, "Sad".
     

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